POLL: Remove karma system

[Ghost!]

If you want to keep the novelty of the system, then just keep the + karma. The negatives create more trouble than they're worth. I've seen arguments break out unnecessarily over that crap -_-" I think the + karma is still a nice token to have though as it avoids having to flood the entire forum with 'Thanks' posts. Perhaps just hide the karma count from the left hand side and make it profile-viewable only?

Shinny got it exactly right. Removing the negative aspect of karma eliminates the majority of problems.

If you want to keep the novelty of the system, then just keep the + karma. The negatives create more trouble than they're worth. I've seen arguments break out unnecessarily over that crap -_-" I think the + karma is still a nice token to have though as it avoids having to flood the entire forum with 'Thanks' posts. Perhaps just hide the karma count from the left hand side and make it profile-viewable only?

-1

There really is no novelty in the system left. People are just + karma-ing their friends, funny/rude posts and it's not truly reflective of a 'helpful poster' at all.

Genuine participating members of the forum, who come to share school experiences and advice for fellow students, don't karma their friends. It's usually on breezy people who join for a while but quit before they get to 100 posts, and no one really cares about their karma count at all.

[sgeorge]

If you want to keep the novelty of the system, then just keep the + karma. The negatives create more trouble than they're worth. I've seen arguments break out unnecessarily over that crap -_-" I think the + karma is still a nice token to have though as it avoids having to flood the entire forum with 'Thanks' posts. Perhaps just hide the karma count from the left hand side and make it profile-viewable only?

+1

+2

[iNerd]

Hide from the left hand side and make it only viewable in the profile through the 'Who changed my karma' button.

So what is this solving? I'm confused :S

It just takes more time for a member to go check someone's profile...but the same system is still there :S

[shinny]

Hide from the left hand side and make it only viewable in the profile through the 'Who changed my karma' button.

So what is this solving? I'm confused :S

It just takes more time for a member to go check someone's profile...but the same system is still there :S

No member is going to go through everyone's profiles and check their karma count. Not the new members anyway, and that stops the whole (possibly misleading) impression associated with high karma counts. Keeping it hidden allows you to just a way to keep track of your own, or stalk someone else's if you're really that interested. What exactly are the problems with the karma system that you see then? From the one's Nina's given:

After talking about this with mods... justifications:
- unnecessarily creates "hierarchies", differentiates members
- bruised egos from negative karma
- a silly way of judging someone's contribution to the forum considering half the karma given out is for stuff like making a funny/rude rather than helpful post

What I've said should solve all of the above if it works as planned.

[ninwa]

I think that should be quite possible (David's said it's possible to hide post count from profiles in threads, so I don't see how karma would be any different)

[iNerd]

Fair enough.

It won't solve the last one though - you just keep +karma'ing someone for the hell of it (found it funny, your friend etc)

Also atm we have at least 20 regular VN users/posters who basically know which members are associated with high karma and what not and the hierarchy will still remain.

What type of new member with 0 karma is going to argue with a person with 800? (believe it or not, being a new member is exciting and checking peoples' karma is somewhat entertaining )

And if they somehow summon the balls to, other users will slam this member - "Oh you noob, respect this guy, he's been on the fourm for a long time..."

Can you explain to me what's wrong with totally eliminating the system? Surely it can't be that hard to drop a quick 'thanks' through PM.

Yes please. I fail to see what Karma contributes to the site.

I second this.

[shinny]

Fair enough.

It won't solve the last one though - you just keep +karma'ing someone for the hell of it (found it funny, your friend etc)

Also atm we have at least 20 regular VN users/posters who basically know which members are associated with high karma and what not and the hierarchy will still remain.

What type of new member with 0 karma is going to argue with a person with 800? (believe it or not, being a new member is exciting and checking people's karma is somewhat entertaining )

And if they somehow summon the balls to, other users will slam this member - "Oh you noob, respect this guy, he's been on the fourm for a long time..."

Can you explain to me what's wrong with totally eliminating the system? Surely it can't be that hard to drop a quick 'thanks' through PM.

Yes please. I fail to see what Karma contributes to the site.

I second this.

It solves the last one not by preventing silly karmas, but by preventing people by judging others on them in the first place. And I don't know whether you're qualified to be speaking on behalf of everyone else. And I know that I'm not either, but I've never personally considered karma to be a factor. Perhaps post count to an extent, but definitely not karma. And I don't know where you're getting the idea that everyone follows those with high karma. I've never seen this happen. Most of us are smart enough on this forum to argue against ideas rather than have a go at people's karma counts. I mean look, you're having a go at my ideas right now. I don't see my karma stopping you and that's the way it should be.

As for eliminating the system, I don't really mind. Was offering an alternative to doing this which some might favour instead since some like having the system in place just for a bit of fun. PMs would be quite annoying though, and most people wouldn't bother with that since it's a bit too personal.

[iNerd]

Not quoting because it's way too big -.-

I'm contesting your ideas...but am I a new member? :S

Honestly fine I'll speak for myself - a new member with 0 posts and 0 karma is going to contest a moderator's 800 karma ideas?
Really - I just can't see that happening at all.

You don't consider karma to be a factor because you have plenty...it's as kyzoo said - the whole one dollar, twenty dollar quote.

If no-one really minds, eliminating karma seems the best option - it contributes nothing, and as you said it's just "a bit of fun".


EDIT: Here.

You have so much karma that it doesn't matter to you anymore =/ -1 or +1 doesn't make any difference at all to you. But for people who are new and haven't got much karma, each +1 or -1 matters a lot.

Kind of like money: when you're poor $20 is a significant amount to you, and you are very reluctant to spend that amount. Yet when you are wealthier, $20 means nothing, and you wouldn't even care if you lost a $20 note to the wind or something like that.

I agree with that as well.

[pi]

Just butting in here, but isn't karma just for fun? I really don't think it creates and hierarchies or damages anyone's ego. I don't think many users take it seriously, and those that do usually have under 100 posts anyway and don't really have a good 'feel' of the forum yet.

I don't mind keeping the system, as it just adds a bit extra to the forum.

[Ghost!]

Not quoting because it's way too big -.-

I'm contesting your ideas...but am I a new member? :S

Honestly fine I'll speak for myself - a new member with 0 posts and 0 karma is going to contest a moderator's 800 karma ideas?
Really - I just can't see that happening at all.

You don't consider karma to be a factor because you have plenty...it's as kyzoo said - the whole one dollar, twenty dollar quote.

If no-one really minds, eliminating karma seems the best option - it contributes nothing, and as you said it's just "a bit of fun".


EDIT: Here.

You have so much karma that it doesn't matter to you anymore =/ -1 or +1 doesn't make any difference at all to you. But for people who are new and haven't got much karma, each +1 or -1 matters a lot.

Kind of like money: when you're poor $20 is a significant amount to you, and you are very reluctant to spend that amount. Yet when you are wealthier, $20 means nothing, and you wouldn't even care if you lost a $20 note to the wind or something like that.

I agree with that as well.

Yes, but what your talking about is time. You feel comfortable debating with senior members because you yourself have been active for a considerable time, but that comes down to post count/time active. In this debate, about karma, Shinny and Ninwa both out strip you in karma by a huge amount, yet you don't seem remotely bothered to argue with them, contradicted your argument that people with lower karma are intimated to argue with those with copious amounts.

But, why remove something that's fun? Enjoying your time here is the main reason to visit the forum.

Edit - Excuse my poor grammar/spelling, I'm too tired.

[iNerd]

No it's because I know karma means jack-all and I actually quite enjoy debating with senior members, it's quite entertaining

A new member treasures karma and feels it is important.
Recent example? Bonifaco asked everyone that neg-karma'd him to retract it - sending off PM's, posts etc.

Fair enough, keep it for it's 'novelty', or what's left of it anyway.

[pi]

But, why remove something that's fun? Enjoying your time here is the main reason to visit the forum.

+1, karma is for fun after all!

No it's because I know karma means jack-all and I actually quite enjoy debating with senior members, it's quite entertaining

A new member treasures karma.
Recent example? Bonifaco asked everyone that neg-karma'd him to retract it - sending off PM's, posts etc.

Fair enough, keep it hidden then.

My response:

Just butting in here, but isn't karma just for fun? I really don't think it creates and hierarchies or damages anyone's ego. I don't think many users take it seriously, and those that do usually have under 100 posts anyway and don't really have a good 'feel' of the forum yet.

I don't mind keeping the system, as it just adds a bit extra to the forum.

[iNerd]

My response:

Just butting in here, but isn't karma just for fun? I really don't think it creates and hierarchies or damages anyone's ego. I don't think many users take it seriously, and those that do usually have under 100 posts anyway and don't really have a good 'feel' of the forum yet.


I don't mind keeping the system, as it just adds a bit extra to the forum.

Uh, that's the problem - you scare away the new members and it does damage their ego (Bonifaco).
But that's irrelevant now because they're proposing to eradicate negative karma.

[shinny]

No it's because I know karma means jack-all and I actually quite enjoy debating with senior members, it's quite entertaining

A new member treasures karma and feels it is important.
Recent example? Bonifaco asked everyone that neg-karma'd him to retract it - sending off PM's, posts etc.

Fair enough, keep it for it's 'novelty', or what's left of it anyway.

Neg karma is definitely something that means something. It's basically an attack of sorts. Hence why I want to get rid of it altogether. But positive karma...I don't think it changes much at all. New members might think it does, and that's why I'm suggesting to hide it.

EDIT:

But that's irrelevant now because they're proposing to eradicate negative karma.

Typed the above before you posted this; don't worry.

[pi]

Just as a side note, won't removing -ve karma defeat the purpose of the word 'karma'. Might as well remove the whole system if the plans are to remove half of it... Keeping half (+ve) wouldn't be 'karma' then, then it would be more like 'brownie points' (which would look lame on someone's profile btw).