Silly Mistakes in English SACs

[azngirl456]

Last year in year 11, some of my friends got As in their English SACs because of a silly mistake or something the teacher didn't like. This silly mistake could be one of either:
-having a paragraph that is more than 20 lines long (there's absolutely nothing wrong with the content, everything is relevant and this was someone who had big handwriting)
-linking the last sentence of the paragraph to the next paragraph instead of linking it to the essay topic question
-folding your arms in an English oral
-not speaking loud enough in an English oral (the bell had rung and their noisy people running to their lockers)

So if my friends didn't do any of these things, the teacher said they would have gotten an A+. The teacher just said it was the way the system worked.

My questions are

1) Can this happen in year 12? I'm at a school where the cohort is quite competitive
2) Has this happened to anyone else at another school
3) With SACs, is it important to find out what your teachers and markers prefer and try to do your SAC to the standard/format/layout they're expecting? Even if it's not what your planning to do in the exam or it goes against you?

[Andiio]

Everything should be cross-marked, so some of that stuff is a tad unfair.

[lexitu]

1) The first two points are bullshit. Firstly, you should be provided with those exact criteria at the start, secondly those first two criteria are completely out of line with anything VCAA recommend. Although the schools can sort of do anything, it still has to be within reason and equal. Having a line limit rather than a word or character limit per paragraph is iniquitous because of different handwriting sizes. Making students structure their essays in a certain way is just plain wrong, although they can probably get away with doing it.

The last two points are fair enough in that they impinge on reasonable assessment criteria. However, the student should be assessed holistically, it shouldn't just be "okay, arms folded, marks off".

2) Nope

3) Yeah, in a way. Ideally you should not be restricted by anyone's preference. In reality some teachers and schools are idiotic and you have to do some background research (and perhaps arguing) to make sure your butt is covered.

[m@tty]

Just do what your teachers like for SACs, even if it isn't what you'd want to do in the exam. Your teacher is the one who will be marking it, so make sure they'll like it.

However, in the exam do it properly.

[shinny]

3) Yeah, in a way. Ideally you should not be restricted by anyone's preference. In reality some teachers and schools are idiotic and you have to do some background research (and perhaps arguing) to make sure your butt is covered.

Yep, do some background research beforehand and follow whatever stupid 'rules' they've set on writing. I don't agree with 'arguing' with them though. If there's one thing I've learnt, the main teacher you don't want to piss off in year 12 is your English teacher

[werdna]

I think with your comment that someone got marked down for having a lengthy paragraph is half-okay. Teachers are normal people like us, and whatever they read should have some sort of readability. A 20-line paragraph is going to have less readability, as you can imagine.

With the oral presentation and having the bell ring or have anything else happen, I think teachers should be a bit fairer in their approach. This girl in my class last year was fiddling around with her powerpoint presentation and projector last year during her oral, yet the teachers forgave her and she got a 18/20. Your orals should be cross-marked anyway - at our school, an extra teacher comes in and watches all the presentations.

And to an extent, yes, find out what your teacher prefers and do what they prefer. I know I did this for English last year! My teacher absolutely hated a language analysis I did using a different approach, but once I toned it down and did it her way, I got a 19/20.

[lexitu]

3) Yeah, in a way. Ideally you should not be restricted by anyone's preference. In reality some teachers and schools are idiotic and you have to do some background research (and perhaps arguing) to make sure your butt is covered.

Yep, do some background research beforehand and follow whatever stupid 'rules' they've set on writing. I don't agree with 'arguing' with them though. If there's one thing I've learnt, the main teacher you don't want to piss off in year 12 is your English teacher

Yeah that's true. If you're going to argue, do it with someone else and courteously but firmly (at least initially). I still think it's valuable to stick up for yourself. I've done it a few times and it works well, especially if you have parental support, the school will give in to reason (usually).

[EvangelionZeta]

I think with your comment that someone got marked down for having a lengthy paragraph is half-okay. Teachers are normal people like us, and whatever they read should have some sort of readability. A 20-line paragraph is going to have less readability, as you can imagine.

Agree mostly with Lex, and disagree with this.  Plenty of people I know wrote 300+ word body paragraphs and got high 40s/50s.  Hell, in some of my SACs, I had paragraphs which were entire pages (or longer).  There's no way 20 lines can be counted as too long...=/

[SDPHD]

Your orals should be cross-marked anyway - at our school, an extra teacher comes in and watches all the presentations.

WTF

Since when?! How come that didn't happen to our class?

And to an extent, yes, find out what your teacher prefers and do what they prefer. I know I did this for English last year!

And that's the story of how you became her pet

[werdna]

Your orals should be cross-marked anyway - at our school, an extra teacher comes in and watches all the presentations.

WTF

Since when?! How come that didn't happen to our class?

And to an extent, yes, find out what your teacher prefers and do what they prefer. I know I did this for English last year!

And that's the story of how you became her pet

I like your signature. Complements the DP really well.

[lexitu]

I thought you WERE meant to link to the next paragraph ? ( and topic sentence)

There is nothing that you are meant to do. That is just one of many ways of doing things.

[stonecold]

I think with your comment that someone got marked down for having a lengthy paragraph is half-okay. Teachers are normal people like us, and whatever they read should have some sort of readability. A 20-line paragraph is going to have less readability, as you can imagine.

Agree mostly with Lex, and disagree with this.  Plenty of people I know wrote 300+ word body paragraphs and got high 40s/50s.  Hell, in some of my SACs, I had paragraphs which were entire pages (or longer).  There's no way 20 lines can be counted as too long...=/

Yes, EZ is 100% correct.  There is no such thing as a paragraph length limit.  This is pure BS.

What you need to do is be consistent however.

i.e. It doesn't look organised and well planned to have paragraphs which are vastly defferent sizes.

You would probably get marked down if you had body paragraphs which were 500, 350 and 200 words each for example, becasue it just doesn't seem like you have put in the effort and explored all of the elements of your essay equally.

Also, what m@tty said is a big +1.

Just do what your teacher says for SACs.  Don't argue and just do it.

Then make sure you follow VCAA recommendations and guidelines for your exam pieces.

English is about conforming.  Do this, and you should come out with a decent mark.

[cameron_15]

I'm willing to assume your English teacher is not that nasty! Perhaps she told your friend to shorten a particular paragraph as it tended to over emphasize the point. ie just because you know 15 quotes relating to your argument, doesn't necessarily mean you should include all of them in your essay.

Given that this was YEAR 11 (Ie Not very important!) maybe the teacher was trying to give guidance for this year, you know, tips to improve and get a higher score. Taking marks off was simply a way of enforcing the point, If there was no punishment (Probably not the best word to use here) and everyone got A+'s,  would you be as meticulous as you are now in making sure you don't make similar mistakes?.. It certainly seems your friends have made a big deal about it and will probably not lose those marks when it is important.

Not meaning to go against you on this (and it's certainly not an attack  , but I think there has been some kind of miscommunication or exaggeration of exactly what the teacher said to your friends. If not, your teacher is not handing out good advice!

[azngirl456]

Thank you for all your replies and assurance that year 12 SACs should be marked fairly through cross marking. I will definitely try to find out what all the english teachers are expecting and the style and structure they prefer.
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