2008 Paralympics/Olympic Games - Beijing

[Mao]

I wasn't talking about holding the Chinese flag.

The attitudes towards Japan and Taiwan are silly. The descendants of those you originally hate are not the same people. It is not justified to bear a grudge against an entire family if their sons and daughters were not involved.

and so what do you suppose China should do? the people's death are dismissed by a simple "oh, but they aren't the same generation anymore."?
you don't need to look past their history textbooks to see what is still happening. Japan has included little details on the mass concentration camps it ran in China nor the Nanjing massacre. and the PM of Japan still visits their war shrines.
do you suppose we cheer for them?

if your mother was murdered, would you cheer for the murderer's son on the trackfields?

[Collin Li]

I would not hate and disrespect the murderer's son. I would have a grudge against the murderer. Of course, I am entitled to my reservations of him, as he may have been brought up in a peculiar way (his dad being a murderer). However, suspicion and expectations often work in ways that serve themselves. That is, if I expect someone to be bad, he will most likely treat me badly because I expected him to be bad. It is the initial disrespect that sets off the snowball of disrespect. For a free nation, it is even less likely that these "fathering effects" will pass on to the next generation, so it is simply not worth being suspicious. It is much more beneficial for both parties to forget the sunk cost (something that cannot be recovered), and work for the future.

If there is misinformation, then fix it and report it. Mind you, China is certainly not immune from charges of misinformation either.

[Collin Li]

I do not mean to politicise the Olympics. I am not like those who use the Olympics as a stand to highlight human rights issues. In this case, it was supposedly (I didn't watch the ceremony) the Chinese that started it, with their silence towards Japan.

And I wanted to comment about ninwa's family and their opposition to Taipei too.

[Mao]

I would not hate and disrespect the murderer's son. I would have a grudge against the murderer. Of course, I am entitled to my reservations of him, as he may have been brought up in a peculiar way (his dad being a murderer). However, suspicion and expectations often work in ways that serve themselves. That is, if I expect someone to be bad, he will most likely treat me badly because I expected him to be bad. It is the initial disrespect that sets off the snowball of disrespect. For a free nation, it is even less likely that these "fathering effects" will pass on to the next generation, so it is simply not worth being suspicious. It is much more beneficial for both parties to forget the sunk cost (something that cannot be recovered), and work for the future.

If there is misinformation, then fix it and report it. Mind you, China is certainly not immune from charges of misinformation either.

China holds the same reservation, and the same suspicion (history textbook case). At least we didn't boo.

as for the misinformation, there has been several protests in China and the issue has been forwarded to Japan on various occasions. Many times it has been disregarded, the other times the changes were considered inadequate. I am still waiting for news that a version has been accepted by the rallying organisation.

China certainly does have its own misinformation, but the organisations claiming it [primarily the Falun Gong and the Republican party] can also be accused of misinformation. I believe these groups are the main causes of the media bias against China. Whilst that is unfortunate, I am yet to see how misinformation affects our nation's solidarity.

[Mao]

I do not mean to politicise the Olympics. I am not like those who use the Olympics as a stand to highlight human rights issues. In this case, it was supposedly (I didn't watch the ceremony) the Chinese that started it, with their silence towards Japan.

And I wanted to comment about ninwa's family and their opposition to Taipei too.

cheering is not a right of the participating country, but more about how the Chinese choose to support them. the audience is not obligated to support Japan, and they chose not to with historical considerations. I am still unclear about why you think that was inadequate.

there were other nations which didn't receive cheering, such as some African nations and Middle-eastern nations. are you equally "sickened"?

[Collin Li]

As I said, I didn't watch it. You said some African nations didn't hold the flag of China. That may be why they didn't get cheered. I am just annoyed at the bigotry of the majority of the Chinese who choose to believe that today's Japanese are bad. The deaths of the past are a sunk cost. They are not recoverable, and the policy has stopped. It is to the detriment of both China and Japan for the Chinese people to hold such resentful feelings towards the Japanese.

[ninwa]

hahhaa! LOL! are they THAT serious about it

LOL yes, they are I remember once I said something really casually along the lines of "I don't know how China can be bothered to keep fighting over Taiwan, just give them independence already sheesh" and I got lectured for about 30 mins by both parents, then given the silent treatment for the rest of the day. aiiiiiyahhh

Those attitudes are sickening, and almost justify my irrational self-hate of my heritage.

You hate your Chinese heritage because some Chinese people have the attitude that Taiwan is a part of China and therefore should not be allowed to compete as a separate state? (albeit with a name of Chinese Taipei)
Wow, that IS irrational and incredibly unbelievable

[Collin Li]

No. It is irrational because I don't attempt to justify it. There are many annoying things I find about my race - those who were born there, and those who were born here.

[Mao]

As I said, I didn't watch it. You said some African nations didn't hold the flag of China. That may be why they didn't get cheered. I am just annoyed at the bigotry of the majority of the Chinese who choose to believe that today's Japanese are bad. The deaths of the past are a sunk cost. They are not recoverable, and the policy has stopped. It is to the detriment of both China and Japan for the Chinese people to hold such resentful feelings towards the Japanese.

you give some, you take some.

and again, even though the deaths are irrecoverable, what little apology Japan has given to its vitims is not accepted by China (as least not the families. where trade is concerned, much has been ignored). as far as China is concerned, we are not in any ways dependant on Japan, and the onus is not on us to accept them,as you have said yourself, we will hold our reservations.

[Collin Li]

Oh no, but I did mention the costs of holding those reservations. Severe opportunity costs, whether it be in trade or cooperation. Perhaps it is because the population of China does not understand that free societies are not autocratically run on traditions of the past, whereas China have lagged far behind on traditions since the beginning of communism.

[Mao]

Oh no, but I did mention the costs of holding those reservations. Severe opportunity costs, whether it be in trade or cooperation. Perhaps it is because the population of China does not understand that free societies are not autocratically run on traditions of the past, whereas China have lagged far behind on traditions since the beginning of communism.

i don't suppose China is ready to give up its traditions [entrenched in our culture] just yet. Whilst freedom is an enticing idea to many, I do believe we hold our cultural identity dearly.
I also disagree with the reference to communism in this sense. the Chinese culture has always been present, even more so BEFORE the communist revolution. the culture revolution in 1960-70 destroyed a lot of that, but some of the stronger traditions survived and prevailed.

[bubble sunglasses]

which attitudes?

that japan received no cheering?
I'm sure if your grandparents were nearly killed by the invasion of another country [and at the same time something close to 11 million were reported killed, including the massacre at Nanjing], hatred would be fairly justified.
at the same time, do you also criticize the fact that north korea and south korea requested not to march one after another? that Isreal is still fighting with Palestine? that some members of the Jewish community are still very anti-Germany?

that every nation held the Chinese flag? it happens at every olympics, participants hold the host's flag as well as their own. at the end of the day, they could've chosen not to hold the flag [i remember seeing a few middle-eastern and african nations who didn't hold the chinese flag]

that Taipei received glares? hell, at least their cheering was a lot more than Japan.
if Western Australia decided that they should declare independence from Aust. Govt because they can, do you think it will be granted?
the main reason is that during the civil war/japan invasion, the Republican party chose to ignore the killings in Northern China, and turned its attention to the Communist party, who must be irradicated in the principles of "宁肯错杀一千，决不放掉一个" (rather kill 1000 innocent people than to let one communist escape). are you telling me that hatred in this case is not justified?

 wtf? so, the state= that country's entire population???

[Mao]

which attitudes?

that japan received no cheering?
I'm sure if your grandparents were nearly killed by the invasion of another country [and at the same time something close to 11 million were reported killed, including the massacre at Nanjing], hatred would be fairly justified.
at the same time, do you also criticize the fact that north korea and south korea requested not to march one after another? that Isreal is still fighting with Palestine? that some members of the Jewish community are still very anti-Germany?

that every nation held the Chinese flag? it happens at every olympics, participants hold the host's flag as well as their own. at the end of the day, they could've chosen not to hold the flag [i remember seeing a few middle-eastern and african nations who didn't hold the chinese flag]

that Taipei received glares? hell, at least their cheering was a lot more than Japan.
if Western Australia decided that they should declare independence from Aust. Govt because they can, do you think it will be granted?
the main reason is that during the civil war/japan invasion, the Republican party chose to ignore the killings in Northern China, and turned its attention to the Communist party, who must be irradicated in the principles of "宁肯错杀一千,决不放掉一个" (rather kill 1000 innocent people than to let one communist escape). are you telling me that hatred in this case is not justified?

 wtf? so, the state= that country's entire population???

which state what country?

[bubble sunglasses]

   in general

[transgression]

Olympics are over, but the Paralympics are here!
- It is on ABC2

V. inspirational stuff right there, and I mean it with the uttermost respect to the athletes

The sports include:
    * Archery
    * Athletics (track and field)
    * Boccia
    * Cycling
    * Equestrian
    * Football 5-a-side
    * Football 7-a-side
    * Goalball
    * Judo
    * Powerlifting
    * Rowing
    * Sailing
    * Shooting
    * Swimming
    * Table Tennis
    * Volleyball (sitting)
    * Wheelchair basketball
    * Wheelchair fencing
    * Wheelchair rugby
    * Wheelchair tennis