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colline

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2019, 10:31:35 pm »
+2
Hey thanks for answering, so if literature is the only english I do in year 11 does that mean I have to do english 3/4 in year 12 or can I just complete 1 unit of english and not have it as a subject on my final atar.
If you ONLY do literature 3/4, without an addition english unit in year 11, then yes you will have to do english 3/4 in year 12.
I'm not sure if you will be allowed to complete only one unit of english in year 12 (but check with your school! Mine doesn't) - however you CAN do english 3/4 as a 7th subject in yr12 if you want! That way it wouldn't contribute towards your ATAR, but the thing is you can't really DECIDED what your final study score is going to be, if that makes sense!

f you want to do only literature 3/4, without an additional english subject in year 12, I suggest that next semester, do unit 2 english instead of one of your current 1/2s. Depending on the subject, you'll most likely still be allowed to continue that 1/2 into 3/4 level next year, without having to do english!

I'm not sure if I'm 100% clear in explaining it haha, PM me if it's still confusing! I was in the same boat as you last year :)

Colline <3

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2019, 08:48:13 pm »
0
If you ONLY do literature 3/4, without an addition english unit in year 11, then yes you will have to do english 3/4 in year 12.
I'm not sure if you will be allowed to complete only one unit of english in year 12 (but check with your school! Mine doesn't) - however you CAN do english 3/4 as a 7th subject in yr12 if you want! That way it wouldn't contribute towards your ATAR, but the thing is you can't really DECIDED what your final study score is going to be, if that makes sense!

f you want to do only literature 3/4, without an additional english subject in year 12, I suggest that next semester, do unit 2 english instead of one of your current 1/2s. Depending on the subject, you'll most likely still be allowed to continue that 1/2 into 3/4 level next year, without having to do english!

I'm not sure if I'm 100% clear in explaining it haha, PM me if it's still confusing! I was in the same boat as you last year :)

Colline <3
Ahhh that makes alot of sense cheers man <3

w0lfqu33n89

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2019, 10:57:28 am »
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hey ya'll not in VCE lit but figured you guys could help.

this is my practice essay, pls be as brutal as you need

The death of the maids was not the fault of Odysseus and Telemachus but rather, Greek Society

The Penelopiad written by author Margaret Atwood is a story about the death of twelve innocent maid servants. Margaret Atwood’s goal in this novel is to properly explore the reason why they were killed and who is to blame. Odysseus and Telemachus, two powerful greek men who are the ones to take the lives of these innocent girls are not only to blame but the disgusting abuse of Male Privilege, the Gods and Penelope’s desire for a voice.

The social hierarchy of Greece in this time allows men to have the privilege of weapons and words. Men are perceived in this novel as tainted and evil and so they should be as all they do is use their privileges as a way of selfish gain and for the gift of power and are yet still “never punished.” Having power in this era is the same as money and authority. Men are the prison guards and women are the prisoners. “it was not fair.” After learning that women have practically given up and “could not refuse,” as every man’s gain was at the expense of a woman, it is appalling to know there was a society as corrupt as this one. An example of men committing to selfish and vial acts at the expense of a woman is when the Odysseus leaves for Troy and the Suitors take it upon themselves to rip away any ounce of authority from under Penelope’s feet and drown her in the override of devilish masculinity. “They were like vultures when they spot a dead cow…every vulture from miles around is tearing up the carcass.” This quote refers too Penelope being left in Ithaca alone without Odysseus because the life of a woman is following the shadow of a man. The Suitors take this opportunity to force Penelope into marrying one of them, not for the want of Penelope but for the desire of the money and power given to them if marriage was to occur. This alone, shows how women are seen as nothing else but powerless property to be traded. They also helped themselves to the maids and the kingdoms food, “they probably thought nothing of it.” Men are evil and will snatch anything they can for a speck of power, hence why the maids were brutally murdered. It was at their expense that Odysseus and Telemachus could take a stand to remind the women that they have the power and are capable of many things, so they have to abide by them.


The Gods should certainly be blamed for the death of the maids as from a young age, men are bought up and encouraged to destroy and conquer the enemy. Although this refers to war, men are still fixated on using brutality and deceitful acts as a way to gain power. Everything people did in these days was for the Gods “because the gods were just.” But even the gods aren’t as innocent as they seem as even “they were always raping someone.” Men are taught by the Gods that violence equals justice, this is another factor to the murder of the maids. “it was demeaning.” While Odysseus was away he pretended to expect the women to be disloyal and took it upon himself to justify his authority by murdering the maids simply because its what the Gods want, but even though the gods seem wise and powerful they are described as “nasty” and “childish.” This is unfair to the extent that it is one of the worst acts to be committed, murder for no reason but your own gain. Twelve innocent fragile lives for one selfish leader. Why? Because the suffering of women is celebrated by men. In greek myths and stories, men are always the heroes, the warriors but no one ever focuses on how women were the price. It proves the fact how Greek religion is corrupt. Greek Gods are celebrated for their achievements in violence and brutality, whilst Goddesses are more celebrated for their spirituality and purity. The gods encourage other men to attempt and commit such celebrated crimes for the prize of power. Women are basically “doomed by the gods to a life that is a living death.” To draw on the fact more, men are the dirty, corrupt warriors who win pure women as a prize for their achievements.













Of course, it could just be of human nature and Penelope’s “determined nature” and unwinding desire for a life like a mans that is to blame for the death of the maids, Penelope even admits that her fathers “desire to protect himself” was “understandable.” Does that mean if Penelope was handed the same privilege as men they would do the same? Atwood even asks herself “what was Penelope really up to?” Is it just fate or misfortune that had lead them to be on the receiving end of this absurd brutality? Human’s are known to be selfish to protect themselves from harm, even Penelope chose those specific twelve maids to help her in acts destined to be punished for. It was doubtful knowledge to know that a murder was just waiting to happen, Penelope knew the consequences of risking her maids like this. She even took it upon her selfish mind to force the maids to pretend to be in love with the Suitors, which lead to the rape of the maids. Early on in the book she is described as “a stick used to beat other women with”, and this is exactly what she is doing for her own selfish gain when it comes to her faithful and innocent maids. It’s not only Male Privilege to blame, but also Penelope. It just shows how if the roles were reversed women such as Penelope would not hesitate to do just the same.

To conclude, whilst Odysseus and Telemachus are victims of the prejudice society they inhabit,  it is down to  Male Privilege, The Gods and Penelope  to blame for the cold-blooded murder of the poor innocent maids, simply because of the yearning for power and money, and the monumental influence by the Gods on how money and power is the key to a successful life. The maids were killed with no reason and never got the justice they deserve.

colline

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2019, 01:31:54 pm »
+3
Hey Lex! There's actually a specific thread for essay marking in the VCE Literature board that you can post in next time if you have anything that needs marking. :) Anyway, I thought I'd have a go at marking your essay. I'm not too familiar with the text though, but here are just some changes I would make:

======

The Penelopiad written by author Margaret Atwood is a story about the death of twelve innocent maid servants. It’s not necessary to explain the plot. Margaret Atwood’s goal in this novel Remember to use the correct terminology. The Penelopiad is a novella is to properly explore the reason why they were killed and who is to blame. Odysseus and Telemachus, two powerful greek Greek men who are the ones to take the lives of these innocent girls are not only to blame but the disgusting abuse of Male Privilege not 100% sure, but I don’t think male privilege needs to be capitalised, the Gods and Penelope’s desire for a voice.

The social hierarchy of Greece in this time What time? Be specific. For example, the social hierarchy of Ancient Greece at the time of the Trojan War allows men to have the privilege of weapons and words. Men are perceived in this novel as tainted and evil and so they should be as all they do is use their privileges as a way of selfish gain and for the gift of power and are yet still “never punished.”Try not to phrase it like that. Maybe leave out the ‘and so they should be’ and go straight to WHY men are perceived as such Having power in this era is the same as having money and authority. Men are the prison guards and women are the prisoners. “it was not fair.” Pay attention to punctuation here. Also, try to insert some context and analysis for this quote – never have quotes by themselves. After learning that women have practically given up and “could not refuse,” as every man’s gain was at the expense of a woman, it is appalling to know there was a society as corrupt as this one Instead of phrasing it like this, try to show Atwood’s authorial intent here – for example, Atwood successfully causes the reader to be appalled at the utter misogyny and corruption of Ancient Greek society. An example of men committing to selfish and vial acts at the expense of a woman is when the Odysseus leaves for Troy and the Suitors take it upon themselves to rip away any ounce of authority from under Penelope’s feet and drown her in the override of devilish masculinity. “They were like vultures when they spot a dead cow…every vulture from miles around is tearing up the carcass.” This quote refers too Penelope being left in Ithaca alone without Odysseus because the life of a woman is following the shadow of a man. The Suitors take this opportunity to force Penelope into marrying one of them, not for the want of Penelope but for the desire of the money and power given to them if marriage was to occur through marriage (try to be efficient with your language whenever you can). This alone, shows how women are seen as nothing else but powerless property to be traded. They also helped themselves to the maids and the kingdoms food, “they probably thought nothing of it.” Again, try to show the context of this quote – who said it? What was the quote trying to achieve? Follow up with some analysis to show your knowledge of the text. Men are evil and will snatch anything they can for a speck of power, hence why the maids were brutally murdered. It was at their expense that Odysseus and Telemachus could take a stand to remind the women that they have the power and are capable of many things, so they have to abide by them.


The Gods should certainly be blamed for the death of the maids as from a young age, men are bought up and encouraged to destroy and conquer the enemy. Although this refers to war, men are still fixated on using brutality and deceitful acts as a way to gain of gaining power. Everything people did in these days be specific. People – what people? Not everyone in Ancient Greece abided by their superstitions. These days – again, more context is needed. Mentioning the time period the text was set in would be sufficient. was for the Gods “because the gods were just.” But even the gods aren’t as innocent as they seem as even “they were always raping someone.” Men are taught by the Gods that violence equals justice, this which is another factor to the murder of the maids. “it was demeaning.” While Odysseus was away he pretended to expect the women to be disloyal and took it upon himself to justify his authority by murdering the maids simply because its what the Gods want, but even though the gods seem wise and powerful they are described as “nasty” and “childish.” This is an extremely good point, so don’t move on so quickly! Explore the irony and juxtaposition here. Point out this literary device that Atwood used and the EFFECT that it has on the reader. This is unfair to the extent that it is one of the worst acts to be committed, murder for no reason but your own personal gain. Twelve innocent fragile lives for one selfish leader. Why? Because the suffering of women is celebrated by men. In greek Greek myths and stories, men are always the heroes, the warriors but no one ever focuses on how women were the price there are many exceptions to this so try not to be too definite – instead, try saying that the men of Ancient Greek society were TRADITIONALLY portrayed as the heroes. It proves the fact how Greek religion is corrupt. Greek Gods are celebrated for their achievements in violence and brutality, whilst Goddesses are more celebrated for their spirituality and purity. The gods encourage other men to attempt and commit such celebrated crimes for the prize of power. Women are basically essentially would be a better word “doomed by the gods to a life that is a living death.” To draw on the fact more don’t use this in your concluding statement, men are the dirty, corrupt warriors who win pure women as a prize for their achievements.

Of course, it could just be of human nature and Penelope’s “determined nature” and unwinding desire for a life like a mans that is to blame for the death of the maids, Penelope even admits that her fathers pay attention to the usage of apostrophes “desire to protect himself” was “understandable.” Does that mean if Penelope was handed the same privilege as men they would do the same? Atwood even asks herself “what was Penelope really up to?” Is it just fate or misfortune that had lead them to be on the receiving end of this absurd brutality? Human’s are known to be selfish to protect themselves from harm, even Penelope chose those specific twelve maids to help her in acts destined to be punished for. It was doubtful knowledge to know that a murder was just waiting to happen, Penelope knew the consequences of risking her maids like this. She even took it upon her selfish mind to force the maids to pretend to be in love with the Suitors, which lead to the rape of the maids. Early on in the book never use ‘book’ – try ‘text’ or ‘narrative’ or ‘novella’ she is described as “a stick used to beat other women with”, and this is exactly what she is doing for her own selfish gain when it comes to her faithful and innocent maids. It’s not only Male Privilege to blame, but also Penelope. It just shows how if the roles were reversed women such as Penelope would not hesitate to do just the same. You’ve raised an excellent point here but you have to come back to your contention in your concluding statement – in the context of this text, it could be argued that Penelope is also to blame – but come back to your point on human nature, as that would be your overarching idea for this paragraph.

To conclude, whilst Odysseus and Telemachus are victims of the prejudice society they inhabit,  it is down to  Male Privilege, The Gods and Penelope human nature to blame for the cold-blooded murder of the poor innocent maids, simply because of the yearning for power and money, and the monumental influence by the Gods on how money and power is the key to a successful life. The maids were killed with no reason and never got never use the word ‘got’ – there are always better alternatives. Try ‘received’ the justice they deserve.

======

Overall, a very solid essay! Just pay attention to your usage of terminology and punctuation (especially apostrophes) and also remember to always provide CONTEXT and ANALYSIS for every quote you use - otherwise the quote doesn't mean anything. Also, try to look at literary devices and techniques and the effect they have on the reader. Essentially, discuss more on historical context and authorial intent.

Good luck!! Let me know if you have any questions :)

Colline xx
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 01:36:02 pm by colline »

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w0lfqu33n89

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2019, 09:56:48 pm »
+1
Thanks colline! sorry it took me so long to respond. Thankyou for your help! I am most certainly gonna use this!! xx

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2019, 09:16:19 pm »
0
Hi,

For my practise exam for section A my feedback revolved around doing more with the lit perspective (psycho-analytical theory) and weave it throughout my essay. I'm really confused on how to do this. Does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2020, 09:45:22 pm »
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Hi everyone!  :)

I just transferred from mainstream English to Literature 3/4 but I doubt my current essay skills will be adequate - I really want to improve though! As part of my holiday work, where can I find general or text specific prompts so I can start practising? Also, is an introduction really not necessary in Lit?

Thank you~
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colline

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2020, 11:04:57 pm »
+1
Hi everyone!  :)

I just transferred from mainstream English to Literature 3/4 but I doubt my current essay skills will be adequate - I really want to improve though! As part of my holiday work, where can I find general or text specific prompts so I can start practising? Also, is an introduction really not necessary in Lit?

Thank you~

Could you please clarify whether your holiday homework is just finding prompts, or actually writing full practice responses in addition to finding them? To be honest, generally it’s your teacher at school who would provide a starting point with a list of prompts, and you can go beyond once you’ve exhausted the list. It also seems like a weird homework to set. If you want to ensure you have a strong start to lit, focus on thoroughly reading through all your texts during the holidays, doing your own analysis, and possibly reading others’ analysis and critical perspectives. Diving straight into the deep end won’t be very rewarding.

Also I’m a little confused as to what you mean by ‘general/text-specific prompts’ because all prompts in lit are text specific.

Regarding introductions, they can be considered unnecessary for close passage analysis (exam section B), however normally you would still require them in other assessments (as you would be responding to a prompt). :)

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Evolio

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2020, 03:17:04 pm »
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Hello guys! I hope you are well.
I had a question I wanted to ask.

So I've gone to three lessons of literature tutoring so far and we've basically been going through the poems (from a collection) from our booklist as in the tutor has been giving us her themes/analysis/interpretations/annotations about when she wrote her interpretations and stuff. The thing is I'm not sure if this is the right choice for me because the reason I chose Literature in the first place was so that I could write about my own interpretations of the text instead of following someone else's.
Also, the tutor's been giving feedback on my essay and the tutor writes in a completely different style to me and when she annotates my essay, she suggests a sentence that is so complex I don't even understand. Personally, I feel very weird writing in someone else's style of writing because it doesn't feel authentic, if that makes sense.

Sorry for the ramble but I was wondering if anyone had any advice about what I should do and whether I should keep doing tutoring with her?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 05:56:51 pm by Evolio »

colline

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2020, 06:33:23 pm »
+3
Hello guys! I hope you are well.
I had a question I wanted to ask.

So I've gone to three lessons of literature tutoring so far and we've basically been going through the poems (from a collection) from our booklist as in the tutor has been giving us her themes/analysis/interpretations/annotations about when she wrote her interpretations and stuff. The thing is I'm not sure if this is the right choice for me because the reason I chose Literature in the first place was so that I could write about my own interpretations of the text instead of following someone else's.
Also, the tutor's been giving feedback on my essay and the tutor writes in a completely different style to me and when she annotates my essay, she suggests a sentence that is so complex I don't even understand. Personally, I feel very weird writing in someone else's style of writing because it doesn't feel authentic, if that makes sense.

Sorry for the ramble but I was wondering if anyone had any advice about what I should do and whether I should keep doing tutoring with her?

Hey Evolio, personally from purely reading what you wrote, it feels like tutoring may not be the most helpful thing for you right now. With subjects like literature, tutoring is a hit or miss, especially when its requirements and criteria are a lot more loosely defined than something such as maths or science.

That said, it’s perfectly fine to start off by reading other people’s interpretations and analysis, especially this early in the year. It may seem a bit demotivating when you’re so keen to start pumping out your own thoughts and feelings for a text only to be handed what others have wrote instead, but a big part of literature is exactly that - reading and learning the analysis of others. It’s good to keep an open mind about what your tutor has given you: they may not be your own analysis, but it’s a place to start. You can also use it as practice for Section A of the exam - think for yourself whether you agree or disagree with what your tutor has given you, why you think so, and what evidence do you have to back it up.

There is nothing wrong with learning about what others have analysed. Aside from the fact that this is exactly what you have to do for your U4AOS1 SAC and section A of the exam — there is always something to learn from others’ interpretations and you’ll find loads more to explore when you start reading them.

As for writing style, it may seem uncomfortable to write in a style you’ve never written in before, but the truth is you can’t write however you want to on the exam — people say lit has more creative freedom and less structure but this is only true to a certain extent. There still is criteria and certain things you must abide by. When I went into literature I found myself having to change my writing drastically in order to see improvements - it did indeed feel “wrong” and not authentic at first, but with practice it would eventually come naturally.

Of course I don’t really know what ‘style’ you write in or all the details with you and your tutor so that’s purely what I think based on the info you gave. I think you could try talking to your tutor about your worries and see what comes out of it! Good luck :)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 06:35:00 pm by colline »

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Evolio

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2020, 07:55:05 pm »
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Thank you for the advice colline! I really appreciate it!  ;D

Snow Leopard

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2020, 10:18:24 am »
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Hi,

How long should it take me to annotate a short story (in a book of a collection of short stories) of around 11 pages? I feel like it takes me way too long but at the same time I'm not sure if I can make insightful annotations quicker.

I'd really appreciate anyone's insight into this.

colline

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2020, 11:50:14 am »
+2
Hi,

How long should it take me to annotate a short story (in a book of a collection of short stories) of around 11 pages? I feel like it takes me way too long but at the same time I'm not sure if I can make insightful annotations quicker.

I'd really appreciate anyone's insight into this.

As much as you need! There really is no set guideline around how much time you should spend on annotating. Your end goal is to show the depth and breadth of your analysis through writing, and for most people annotating is the best way to start because it ensures a solid understanding of the text! :)

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FrankieDens

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2020, 05:22:53 pm »
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Hi everyone!

I have a creative response coming up and I was wondering what the SD meant by a 1000-1500 word count. Is this a combined total of the actual creative and commentary or does this mean both of them should ideally be 1000-1500 words each?

Thanks!
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colline

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Re: VCE Literature Questions Thread
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2020, 07:39:57 pm »
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Hi everyone!

I have a creative response coming up and I was wondering what the SD meant by a 1000-1500 word count. Is this a combined total of the actual creative and commentary or does this mean both of them should ideally be 1000-1500 words each?

Thanks!

It's best to ask your teacher to clarify since SACs are marked internally so different teachers will have different criteria. (When I did lit, for example, our teacher told us to disregard the word limit lol :P)

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