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June 05, 2023, 10:22:05 am

Author Topic: Doing 3/4 without Prior Skill  (Read 3807 times)  Share 

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Jamie3456

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Doing 3/4 without Prior Skill
« on: July 21, 2020, 04:37:40 pm »
0
Hello,

I am currently in Y11 and only now have I decided that I think it'll be fun to learn some new languages. Ideally in Y12, I would like to do three languages (if that's even allowed), however my experience with languages is minimal and my school has told me that I would not be eligible to do such classes without doing 1/2 and such. For a language such as Japanese would it be possible for me to cover the recommended 200 hours of language content and the content of 1/2 in my spare time and thus be able to do 3/4 Japanese, or is this bound to fail/still not be acceptable to do 3/4 Japanese. Note : the only experience I have ever had with Japanese was in primary school.



I am currently in Y11 and only now have I decided that I think it'll be fun to learn some new languages. Ideally in Y12, I would like to do three languages (if that's even allowed), however my experience with languages is minimal and my school has told me that I would not be eligible to do such classes without doing 1/2 and such. For a language such as Latin would it be possible for me to cover the recommended 200 hours of language content and the content of 1/2 in my spare time and thus be able to do 3/4 Latin, or is this bound to fail/still not be acceptable to do 3/4 Latin. Out of all the languages I am thinking about, I feel like Latin would be the one I would most struggle in due to the fact that people that do Latin I feel will all do quite well and have had prior experience which I have none. Also it would be distance ed.




I am currently in Y11 and only now have I decided that I think it'll be fun to learn some new languages. Ideally in Y12, I would like to do three languages (if that's even allowed), however my experience with languages is minimal and my school has told me that I would not be eligible to do such classes without doing 1/2 and such. For a language such as Korean would it be possible for me to cover the recommended 200 hours of language content and the content of 1/2 in my spare time and thus be able to do 3/4 Korean, or is this bound to fail/still not be acceptable to do 3/4 Korean. Note : I have not had any formal education of Korean.




I am currently in Y11 and only now have I decided that I think it'll be fun to learn some new languages. Ideally in Y12, I would like to do three languages (if that's even allowed), however my experience with languages is minimal and my school has told me that I would not be eligible to do such classes without doing 1/2 and such. For a language such as French would it be possible for me to cover the recommended 200 hours of language content and the content of 1/2 in my spare time and thus be able to do 3/4 French, or is this bound to fail/still not be acceptable to do 3/4 French. Note : the only experience I have had with French was in Y7 and Y8.

Mod edit: I've merged the other topics for Korean, Latin, and French into this one, as it's really just the same question with different languages. Best of luck. ó Calebark
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 05:47:58 pm by Calebark »

keltingmeith

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Re: Doing 3/4 without Prior Skill
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2020, 04:54:23 pm »
+6
I can only really speak about Japanese, but tbh this goes out to all of your threads:

You will be fighting a losing battle.

It doesn't matter how motivated you are, learning another language is /hard/. Particularly for Korean and Japanese, you'll need to learn entirely new alphabets along with words, grammar patterns, cultural classes, etc. If your only incentive is that you want to learn a new language, do it in your own time - with the popularity that's come with apps like duolingo, it's honestly not that hard to start learning a language all by yourself without formal education. Plus, there are plenty of classes for adults where you can get actual experience - there's even a bunch of groups that will literally just meet up in a pub, and the whole point is to just sit there making casual conversation in a different language. Seriously, learning a language has so many less barriers than it used to - you don't have to get a formal education anymore for people to think you're a fluent speaker.

If your aim is to get high scaling subjects, this is not the way to do it. I did this in year 12 purely because I had already done year 11 Jap, and figured I should do year 12 for that extra scaling boost. I would honestly have been better off taking another subject - I did so poorly in Japanese as a result, that my score didn't enter my top 4 /even after scaling/.

If this is because you like languages and want to do them because you'll feel you'll be more motivated, figure out what it is about languages that you like, and try to find subjects that can still give you that thrill. Maybe it's because you love learning about culture, so it may be worth taking history and learning what culture was like all those years ago. Maybe it's because you like analysing how language comes together and forms, and so you might want to consider taking English Language. I know it can be very easy to sit in a pouty little hole and say, "no, I like languages because I like learning new languages", but if you do it this way you will only hurt your ATAR.

Unless of course you've decided on a pathway that won't require an ATAR - in which case, do whatever you want. You can't fail VCE as long as you do all the work, even if you get 0 in all your assessments.

darkz

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Re: Doing 3/4 without Prior Skill
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2020, 04:55:19 pm »
+2
Hello,

I am currently in Y11 and only now have I decided that I think it'll be fun to learn some new languages. Ideally in Y12, I would like to do three languages (if that's even allowed), however my experience with languages is minimal and my school has told me that I would not be eligible to do such classes without doing 1/2 and such. For a language such as Latin would it be possible for me to cover the recommended 200 hours of language content and the content of 1/2 in my spare time and thus be able to do 3/4 Latin, or is this bound to fail/still not be acceptable to do 3/4 Latin. Out of all the languages I am thinking about, I feel like Latin would be the one I would most struggle in due to the fact that people that do Latin I feel will all do quite well and have had prior experience which I have none. Also it would be distance ed.

Well, there are two things you need to consider here:

    1) is it possible?
    2) is it practical?

Ultimately, anything is possible. You could only do languages if you wanted and still do relatively well. You can do any subject without completing U1&2 and still do well. But you need to ask yourself, why do you want to do that? What is the purpose behind it? Why do you want to do languages for VCE specifically? That is, If you just want to learn languages for fun, there is nothing stopping you from doing that in your own spare time. Also, will you put in the relevant amount of effort to do well in them?

Now, from a purely ATAR-oriented perspective, I'd strongly advise against picking up three new languages in Year 12 simply because to learn what others have spent a few years learning is not practical. Also, it is unlikely that any school, or distance-ed program will be able to support you. They have a curriculum to follow, and if you're new to the subject, they will not be able to accomodate for your needs. e.g. you're still learning basic conjugations, declensions, and vocab while others are already expected to translate passages.
2018: Biology [50 + Prems]
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AngelWings

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Re: Doing 3/4 without Prior Skill
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2020, 05:36:10 pm »
+3
Unfortunately, Iím going to have to agree with Keltingmeith on this one and everything heís said. As much as I love learning languages myself (albeit Iíve never been good at it) and having taken two LOTEs to various points (I did U1/2 Chinese SL, as well as U1-4 Japanese SL and subsequently got a minor in Japanese Studies at uni), Iíd say that youíd be in for quite the mountain of work, and itíll be too much when you account that you will need to balance it with at least 3 other VCE subjects, which will already be difficult enough as is. Even if you donít care about your ATAR (which I assume you do) and are a savant at learning languages, itíll still be a very difficult challenge.

As per Keltingmeithís reply above, Iíd consider other ways of learning languages instead (e.g. Duolingo, uni [either electives or the actual course], pen pals, exchange, extracurricular activities), as this will probably get you better language skills than doing it competitively at the VCE level and for your ATAR, because youíll be able to do it at a slower pace. If itís the structure that you need because you donít think youíll be able to self-teach with a program like Duolingo, then Iíd recommend doing it in an extracurricular class or at uni. They usually start from various levels and cater more towards you and your language skills, so theyíll be more beneficial for you in the long run.

If youíre hoping to learn a language, you may as well learn it right and build the right foundations for yourself. Youíll thank yourself for this.
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Hibuki

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Re: Doing 3/4 without Prior Skill
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2020, 09:55:08 pm »
+2
Hi,

This is something I personally did last year, except I chose to take up 3/4 Japanese without prior experience through Distance Ed in Year 11, instead of year 12. I ended up getting a raw 35, which was okay. If you decide to do this, it becomes much less a language learning experience, rather, it becomes a memorisation test. You will not have enough time to learn how to properly manipulate the language like other students who will have had years to learn how to do so.

Because of this, it will take possibly three times as long as other students to undertake some of the work, especially those with language output such as speaking and writing.  I realise that there has been course changes since I took it last year, so I cannot comment on that side. Netflix and other Japanese experiences are helpful to a point, but to properly understand and profit from these things you must have a basic foundation in grammar, otherwise it will sound like gibberish : i.e. you will not have the time to leisurely learn this way.

I went through all the year 11 textbooks over the summer holidays and had an amazing Unit 3/4 teacher which contibuted to my success, but even then, it was a massive toll during year 11, I couldn't imagine taking it in year 12. I would take into account what ATAR you are aiming for, and seriously think about the detriments of getting a very low score in a subject will bring you / the effects it may bring upon your other subjects.

However, if you still feel determined to undertake this, I would be happy to help you in directing you to resources I used or study techniques.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2020, 10:02:06 pm by Hibuki »