State Ranking

[justwannawish]

Hey guys 

I was wondering how state ranking actually works. Would you have to be first in your school to get a rank, or does it not matter if it's a subject like maths where your results could be moderated to 100%? I know the first three people in maths at my school have a 0.05% difference in marks so wondering what would happen to them? If you're not first, does the person who is first have to state rank for you to do so as well?

Thank you!

[sudodds]

Hey guys 

I was wondering how state ranking actually works. Would you have to be first in your school to get a rank, or does it not matter if it's a subject like maths where your results could be moderated to 100%? I know the first three people in maths at my school have a 0.05% difference in marks so wondering what would happen to them? If you're not first, does the person who is first have to state rank for you to do so as well?

Thank you!

Hey! I don't know much about the process in term of scaling and what not, but you definitely don't have to be first in your cohort (though I think the majority will have been). In 2015 a girl from my school came 1st in NSW for SOR1, but she was ranked 2nd in her year group!

[justwannawish]

Hey! I don't know much about the process in term of scaling and what not, but you definitely don't have to be first in your cohort (though I think the majority will have been). In 2015 a girl from my school came 1st in NSW for SOR1, but she was ranked 2nd in her year group!

I'm not entirely sure about the whole moderation process either, but would there have to be a very small disparity between first and second then? Wouldn't first get the highest internal mark from the exam? I've had it explained to me so many times and I think I get more confused every time!

[jamonwindeyer]

I'm not entirely sure about the whole moderation process either, but would there have to be a very small disparity between first and second then? Wouldn't first get the highest internal mark from the exam? I've had it explained to me so many times and I think I get more confused every time!

You don't need to be 1st in course, but yeah you'd probably need to be close (I state ranked Legal from 2nd place, but we were only about a mark apart)

This is basically because moderation tends to keep the relative distances the same, but give or take. So, sometimes that 'give or take' can mean that 2nd place overtakes 1st place in their HSC mark - And that can mean they state rank, but 1st place doesn't.

As an example:

BILL: Exam Mark of 94, Internal Mark of 94
BOB: Exam Mark of 98, Internal Mark of 93

BILL MODERATED INTERNAL: 98 (directly taken from highest exam mark)
BOB MODERATED INTERNAL: 96 (because Bob was close second to Bill internally, so he is close second to Bill after moderation as well)

The HSC marks are average of moderated internal and exam:

BILL HSC MARK: (98+94)/2=96
BOB HSC MARK: (96+98)/2=97

Bob ended up higher than Bill! Hopefully that gives you the rough idea, more detail here if you like!

[justwannawish]

You don't need to be 1st in course, but yeah you'd probably need to be close (I state ranked Legal from 2nd place, but we were only about a mark apart)

This is basically because moderation tends to keep the relative distances the same, but give or take. So, sometimes that 'give or take' can mean that 2nd place overtakes 1st place in their HSC mark - And that can mean they state rank, but 1st place doesn't.

As an example:

BILL: Exam Mark of 94, Internal Mark of 94
BOB: Exam Mark of 98, Internal Mark of 93

BILL MODERATED INTERNAL: 98 (directly taken from highest exam mark)
BOB MODERATED INTERNAL: 96 (because Bob was close second to Bill internally, so he is close second to Bill after moderation as well)

The HSC marks are average of moderated internal and exam:

BILL HSC MARK: (98+94)/2=96
BOB HSC MARK: (96+98)/2=97

Bob ended up higher than Bill! Hopefully that gives you the rough idea, more detail here if you like!

I read the article and it's like a whole new world has been opened up to me! It makes a lot of sense now

(Side note: if there is a tie for first, does that mean their internal marks will be the average of both their exam marks?)

[jamonwindeyer]

I read the article and it's like a whole new world has been opened up to me! It makes a lot of sense now

(Side note: if there is a tie for first, does that mean their internal marks will be the average of both their exam marks?)

Hmmmm...

No, I think they would both get the higher of the two, maybe? I'm honestly not 100% sure on that one!

[justwannawish]

Hmmmm...

No, I think they would both get the higher of the two, maybe? I'm honestly not 100% sure on that one!

I just read our school's assessment policy and it says that they'll get an average. Not sure if it's a policy just for our school though but in 90% of the cases, someone is going to be dragged down and the other's going to profit. Wonder how it works for subjects where a tie is likely, eg maths....

[jamonwindeyer]

I just read our school's assessment policy and it says that they'll get an average. Not sure if it's a policy just for our school though but in 90% of the cases, someone is going to be dragged down and the other's going to profit. Wonder how it works for subjects where a tie is likely, eg maths....

Interesting! Well this is NESA's moderation procedure we are talking about so if it applies to your school, must apply to everyone!

And indeed, just found it from NESA:

Note that if a school submits assessment marks with two (or more) students tied on the top assessment mark, then the top moderated assessment mark is equal to the mean of the top two (or more) examination marks. This is also the case if students are tied on the bottom assessment mark. Please also note that the standard deviation is never used to moderate school assessment marks.

I suppose that if you've got two students tied the whole year, it is:

a) Highly likely they will also score the highest exam marks
b) Highly likely those marks will be closer together anyway

I don't think anyone would be severely disadvantaged by this - If one of them bombs badly enough then someone else's mark will be used instead, no dramas