Should I consider doing postgrad medicine?

[alondouek]

So, I never really had any interest in medicine throughout school. However, having taken a first-year biomed unit on public health, epidemiology and disease management (and, if all goes well, a joint med/biomed summer research scholarship at the Alfred), I've found that I have a real enjoyment and appreciation of these areas, and of using biomedical and medical sciences to help people and populations directly (that is, outside the lab). Even though it's a long way off, I've been pondering the possibility of taking the GAMSAT after I graduate and attempting to commence an MD.

However, I don't really think I'm suited to a clinical profession - I doubt that I have the attitude and the drive necessary to do so. Also, I'm at a pretty significant stage of financial hardship, so taking another degree might put further strain on that. I suppose that I don't really feel adequate for such a prestigious program; I mean, I never really even slightly wanted to do medicine before now, so why should I be potentially taking a place from someone who's been working towards it for much longer? Hmm.

So, to those who are either doing postgrad or undergrad medicine (or even those also considering it); what do I need to do other than sit the GAMSAT? What do you, or will you, find rewarding about doing medicine? Is it a goal worth pursuing - even if I don't have my heart set on it right now?

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I have no idea how to approach any of this

[abeybaby]

Hey alondouek!

Even though I read your post, I feel like most of it isn't relevant to your decision.

My thought process is sort of like this:

Is Medicine (and all that comes with it) something that you love, something that you have a real and certain passion for?
If yes, then pursue MD. If no, then don't pursue MD. That's really all I see....
If no, then maybe do some more research to find out what a medical careers ensues. A clinical career is totally different to a research career, so just because you don't think your suited to the clinical aspect, that doesn't mean no career in medicine suits you.

For me, it's a few things:
1) Yes it's good to help people, but it's a whole new level when you know that your patient is alive *only* because you happen to be a doctor.

2) It's a massive sacrifice - doctors don't live glamorous lifestyles, nor do they get paid as well as people think (especially considering the work load). It's just about the least selfish career I can think of, and that adds a real purpose to my life.

3) I don't see it as a job - I see it as something I would do anyway, and I'm just lucky enough to be (potentially) getting paid for it. If you can achieve that, then I think you've found the perfect career. "Find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life." - Confucius.

Back to number 1... that's just an idea that I can't get out of my head. Person X exists only because I exist... I would never forgive myself if I let myself not become a doctor.


To answer the more concrete aspects of your question, selection is GPA + GAMSAT + Interview (except for UQ, which has no interview). Some schools have GPA cut offs and then GAMSAT ranks (Monash, Usyd+ others) and some have equal weighting between GPA and GAMSAT to determine interviews (UoM and most others). Focus strongly on the GAMSAT, because the unis with GPA cut offs usually have them quite low (around 5, 5.5 which is a little over a pass mark). GAMSAT isn't so bad, you can practice which is the main thing

But yes, I would say to sit down, think and decide. If you decide that med is for *you*, then don't let it out of your grip. Good luck

[Tomw2]

So, I never really had any interest in medicine throughout school. However, having taken a first-year biomed unit on public health, epidemiology and disease management (and, if all goes well, a joint med/biomed summer research scholarship at the Alfred), I've found that I have a real enjoyment and appreciation of these areas, and of using biomedical and medical sciences to help people and populations directly (that is, outside the lab). Even though it's a long way off, I've been pondering the possibility of taking the GAMSAT after I graduate and attempting to commence an MD.

Seems a good basis on which to investigate and pursue interests in PH, epidemiology and clinical medicine.

However, I don't really think I'm suited to a clinical profession - I doubt that I have the attitude and the drive necessary to do so.

Curious as to how you came to that conclusion.

I suppose that I don't really feel adequate for such a prestigious program; I mean, I never really even slightly wanted to do medicine before now, so why should I be potentially taking a place from someone who's been working towards it for much longer? Hmm.

For starters, IMO its best to ignore the romanticised notions of 'the prestige of medicine'. It's a degree and it's a profession, best approached the way you would any other degree and profession.

Personally I find the notion of medicine as a "higher calling" a bit silly. It is a job/career - hopefully one that will bring some satisfaction, challenges, sense of utility and reward to those who pursue it - like any other profession.

The whole 'saving lives' supreme sentiment is, IMO, out of touch with the realities of the study and practice of medicine.

Futhermore, contrary to popular opinion no one is 'entitled' to medicine. Applications are on the basis of merit and if someone who has been actively pursuing medicine for longer than you doesn't make the admissions cut off, then that is that. People seem to forget that the admissions process doesn't pick who is suitable and who isnt - fact is a large number of applicants would probably make good medicine students and doctors. However there are wayyyy more suitable applicants than there are places, so a number of hurdles are set up simply as a way to discriminate between all the great candidates.

As such, it's not so much a matter of who deserves it more, it's a matter of numbers.

I've noticed many people seem to critique and contrast the legitimacy of people's motivation to pursue medicine more than most other careers - this probably stems from the unique status of medicine - however the critiques and comparisons are often biased and illogical. Wanting it for a long time doesn't make your aspirations any more legitimate than someone who has only considered that career for a fraction of the time.

In regards to you questioning your drive to complete the medical degree - the question is, are you prepared to do your homework and attend class in a degree that has a relatively heavy workload? If yes, then move on to the other questions.

[alondouek]

Hey alondouek!

Even though I read your post, I feel like most of it isn't relevant to your decision.

My thought process is sort of like this:

Is Medicine (and all that comes with it) something that you love, something that you have a real and certain passion for?
If yes, then pursue MD. If no, then don't pursue MD. That's really all I see....
If no, then maybe do some more research to find out what a medical careers ensues. A clinical career is totally different to a research career, so just because you don't think your suited to the clinical aspect, that doesn't mean no career in medicine suits you.

For me, it's a few things:
1) Yes it's good to help people, but it's a whole new level when you know that your patient is alive *only* because you happen to be a doctor.

2) It's a massive sacrifice - doctors don't live glamorous lifestyles, nor do they get paid as well as people think (especially considering the work load). It's just about the least selfish career I can think of, and that adds a real purpose to my life.

3) I don't see it as a job - I see it as something I would do anyway, and I'm just lucky enough to be (potentially) getting paid for it. If you can achieve that, then I think you've found the perfect career. "Find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life." - Confucius.

Back to number 1... that's just an idea that I can't get out of my head. Person X exists only because I exist... I would never forgive myself if I let myself not become a doctor.


To answer the more concrete aspects of your question, selection is GPA + GAMSAT + Interview (except for UQ, which has no interview). Some schools have GPA cut offs and then GAMSAT ranks (Monash, Usyd+ others) and some have equal weighting between GPA and GAMSAT to determine interviews (UoM and most others). Focus strongly on the GAMSAT, because the unis with GPA cut offs usually have them quite low (around 5, 5.5 which is a little over a pass mark). GAMSAT isn't so bad, you can practice which is the main thing

But yes, I would say to sit down, think and decide. If you decide that med is for *you*, then don't let it out of your grip. Good luck

Thanks for taking the time to give me an insight into this! I really appreciate it.

The issue I have is that I honestly don't know what I want. On the one hand, I'd like to have a research-based career, because that's what I'm used to and what I'm comfortable with. But if university thus far has taught me anything, it's that true success comes from going outside the realm of comfort and learning and contributing to new areas. I suppose that on the other hand, medicine is something I'd like to pursue, but in truth I don't know anything about it. I have a couple of friends in second- and third-year med, and they absolutely adore it. It heartens me to see people have such a passion for helping people, and I kinda feel that I'd want to be a part of that.

But again, I'm not sure if I really match up to the requisite standards - these people have had their heart and their minds set on med, and I doubt that I'd be able to live up to their altruism. I know I'm not really expressing myself clearly at all (lol), but I'm finding it to be quite a dilemma.

I guess it all boils down to what I want to devote myself to, and why I want to do that. I think I need to have a good, long discussion with a med student about what it means to them; hopefully I can find some internal understanding based on that.

Does the MD only lead to being a clinical doctor? As I mentioned above, I have a real passion for lab-based medical research, and I probably wouldn't want to forgo that entirely. On the flipside, I really don't want to end up an academic - I'd much rather be administering any benefit to people that I can in as direct a manner as possible. Are there career areas that lead on from the MD into both lab research/medical science and medical practice in a clinical setting? I feel like if something like that exists, it might provide some motivation.

I echo your statement that you "don't see it as a job"; personally, I'm not greatly interested in wage - for me, it's more about the contribution I could potentially make to a society that has given me so much.

At what point to most people begin to sit the GAMSAT? I hope that I can figure out what I want before then

Seems a good basis on which to investigate and pursue interests in PH, epidemiology and clinical medicine.

However, I don't really think I'm suited to a clinical profession - I doubt that I have the attitude and the drive necessary to do so.

Curious as to how you came to that conclusion.

For starters, IMO its best to ignore the romanticised notions of 'the prestige of medicine'. It's a degree and it's a profession, best approached the way you would any other degree and profession.

Personally I find the notion of medicine as a "higher calling" a bit silly. It is a job/career - hopefully one that will bring some satisfaction, challenges, sense of utility and reward to those who pursue it - like any other profession.

The whole 'saving lives' supreme sentiment is, IMO, out of touch with the realities of the study and practice of medicine.

Futhermore, contrary to popular opinion no one is 'entitled' to medicine. Applications are on the basis of merit and if someone who has been actively pursuing medicine for longer than you doesn't make the admissions cut off, then that is that. People seem to forget that the admissions process doesn't pick who is suitable and who isnt - fact is a large number of applicants would probably make good medicine students and doctors. However there are wayyyy more suitable applicants than there are places, so a number of hurdles are set up simply as a way to discriminate between all the great candidates.

As such, it's not so much a matter of who deserves it more, it's a matter of numbers.

I've noticed many people seem to critique and contrast the legitimacy of people's motivation to pursue medicine more than most other careers - this probably stems from the unique status of medicine - however the critiques and comparisons are often biased and illogical. Wanting it for a long time doesn't make your aspirations any more legitimate than someone who has only considered that career for a fraction of the time.

In regards to you questioning your drive to complete the medical degree - the question is, are you prepared to do your homework and attend class in a degree that has a relatively heavy workload? If yes, then move on to the other questions.

Thanks for the reply Tom, greatly appreciated

Any sentiment of inadequacy may or may not be warranted or rational, but I can't really justify to myself that I have what it takes to be a good doctor. I mean, I don't know what it takes, and it's sort of difficult for me to envision myself in that profession. Whether that stems from a total lack of knowledge of clinical medicine or just irrational (or otherwise) senses of inadequacy - I'm not sure. I feel like this current utter confusion is more because I've only recently felt any appeal in medicine; hopefully I can elucidate a more clear internal position on the matter as time passes

I'd say that I have the academic drive to do what's needed in that sense, but that's not what really troubles me. It's more the fact that should I become a doctor, I have responsibility for peoples' lives and wellbeing and I'm not sure that I could handle that as well as every doctor I've seen do so.

I noticed you've commenced an MPH; do you find it fulfilling? It might be something I pursue regardless of whether or not I go for the MD; I've found public and population health to be absolutely fascinating and at this time I reckon I'd like to have a go at that. Worth it?

Also, I apologise for this ridiculously rambling post; I'm just trying to get everything that's floating around my head onto here so I can make sense of it haha

[Tomw2]

I'd say that I have the academic drive to do what's needed in that sense, but that's not what really troubles me. It's more the fact that should I become a doctor, I have responsibility for peoples' lives and wellbeing and I'm not sure that I could handle that as well as every doctor I've seen do so.

At the risk of sounding obvious, that's pretty healthy really - but understand the confidence and ability to practice safely does come with time.

I noticed you've commenced an MPH; do you find it fulfilling? It might be something I pursue regardless of whether or not I go for the MD; I've found public and population health to be absolutely fascinating and at this time I reckon I'd like to have a go at that. Worth it?

The USyd MPH has greatly exceeded my expectations, but it has been quite challenging. And at times confronting - it's given me a new appreciation for health issues on many different levels. I've found applied epidemiology and health promotion pretty rewarding. Juggling MPH on top of dental degree has been tricky, but ultimately Im glad Ive stuck with it.

[spectroscopy]

Does the MD only lead to being a clinical doctor? As I mentioned above, I have a real passion for lab-based medical research, and I probably wouldn't want to forgo that entirely. On the flipside, I really don't want to end up an academic - I'd much rather be administering any benefit to people that I can in as direct a manner as possible. Are there career areas that lead on from the MD into both lab research/medical science and medical practice in a clinical setting? I feel like if something like that exists, it might provide some motivation.

dont do med but i have researched medicine and careers involving it so much over the past years that its not funny

i know with an MD you have other career paths, you could go work for the AFP as a forensic person, and if you want research + clinical stuff i know a doctor my mum went to is a professor of med and he does his own individual research on things and implements it on patients sometimes greatly improving patient outcomes. there are also plenty of MD's im sure at walter + eliza hall and those sorts of research places. pharmaceutical companies always have a few doctors on board in their R&D teams too !

just some ideas to keep in mind