Undergad vs Grad Medicine?

[psyxwar]

Ok, so I'm interested in doing medicine and until recently was fairly sure I wanted to do the MBBS @ Monash, because well, undergrad right?

However, I've been thinking that perhaps rushing into medicine isn't a good idea, and perhaps gaining some life experience before going into medicine will do me good. For the graduate pathway I was either thinking of doing a BSc @ UoM, perhaps with some commerce breadths or something/ commerce diploma (not sure if this is viable?) or a double degree in commerce and science @ Monash before going into the MD @ UoM.

My main concerns with doing graduate medicine are that:

(1) it takes more time and I'm not sure how much time I want to spend in university. Granted, I can get internships and jobs while at university, but is it a substitute for full time work (in terms of the experiences it'll give me, insights into how the world works etc)

(2) a lot of my friends are going for MBBS @ Monash. I'm not sure if this is a big issue as I'll probably make new friends at university regardless, but I guess it's still something to consider. It'd kinda suck knowing nobody at all.

Any insight would be welcome.

[hobbitle]

I am not a med student but I wanted to say something about your life experience comment.
Spending longer at Uni before doing Med isn't going to give you the life experience you're after. Sure, being able to take some extra breadth type subjects will expand your knowledge but that is different to life experience.
So if that's your main concern, you may as well just put the undergrad MBBS as your first preference. Life experience comes from, well, your experiences... And whilst Uni can be totally fun and there can be crazy parties and whatever, that's also not necessarily life experience. You're still living at home (probably), you're still in the city you grew up in, you still aren't in the work force (properly), you still haven't seen much of the world (independently). Anyway, I'm not having a go at you - sorry - I guess what you said made me think that your line of thought was "more years = extra breadth = life experience!" but it isn't really like that. So, what I'm saying is, if you want to go straight to Uni regardless, and you know you want to do medicine, just put the undergrad as your first preference

[psyxwar]

I am not a med student but I wanted to say something about your life experience comment.
Spending longer at Uni before doing Med isn't going to give you the life experience you're after. Sure, being able to take some extra breadth type subjects will expand your knowledge but that is different to life experience.
So if that's your main concern, you may as well just put the undergrad MBBS as your first preference. Life experience comes from, well, your experiences... And whilst Uni can be totally fun and there can be crazy parties and whatever, that's also not necessarily life experience. You're still living at home (probably), you're still in the city you grew up in, you still aren't in the work force (properly), you still haven't seen much of the world (independently). Anyway, I'm not having a go at you - sorry - I guess what you said made me think that your line of thought was "more years = extra breadth = life experience!" but it isn't really like that. So, what I'm saying is, if you want to go straight to Uni regardless, and you know you want to do medicine, just put the undergrad as your first preference

Oh thanks, yeah fair enough probably phrased that wrong since the life experience point kinda contradicts my first point . I guess what I meant is more so being able to have a better idea of what to do with my life.

[Stick]

I think you are really mature to allow yourself to consider both options here; most people who are absolutely sure about medicine will try to jump into the undergraduate pathway, perhaps without thinking what the graduate pathway would entail.

I don't think anyone can ever be 100% on medicine (or any career, really) straight out of Year 12 and if someone said that they were, they're either in a really special circumstance in order to make that call, or they're lying. In reality, we have a very little idea of what most careers actually entail. I chose my undergraduate degree based on the fact that it allows me to explore my academic interests more, putting aside a career for the minute.

Addressing your two concerns:

1. You'll be working for 40 or more years of your life - whether you study for five or seven years will mean very little in the long term. Many Monash MBBS students also take the optional research year during their degree, meaning that they're actually studying for six years before they graduate. I don't think that the time taken should deter you from either pathway.

2. Well, this is something more personal and you'll probably have to weigh it up for yourself. I'm in a position where I'll pretty much be alone nonetheless, so it wasn't a factor I had to include in my decision-making. I'd say that you'd definitely make new friends at university regardless, however.

Some extra insight:

The main reason for pursing undergraduate medicine is the security of knowing that you've already earned your place in a medical degree. We all know how competitive it is both at undergraduate and graduate level and so if you are 80% sure this is what you want to do and can manage to get a foot in the door, then go for it. I know that I definitely feel more comfortable with that sense of security. The graduate entry pathway is somewhat a risk which may not work out initially. This is something you'll need to be prepared for.

The main reason for pursuing graduate medicine is the ability to explore the area more and make a more informed decision prior to committing to medicine. You're not locked in, so you are able to ponder a variety of career paths and you may find something other than medicine that interests you more. That being said, if you're in the Monash MBBS degree and you change your mind, there's nothing stopping you from transferring. It's probably a little bit more messy that way though.

Anyway, I'm probably not in the best position to help you out but I hope this has been able to shed some light nonetheless. Good luck making your decision.

[Russ]

I think the American system (which UoM adopted with their model) is preferable in the majority of cases. I certainly didn't know what I wanted out of high school and I definitely don't believe 99% of high school students who tell me they absolutely want to study medicine and it's all they've ever wanted. The opportunity to spend three years evaluating yourself before making these decisions is invaluable, especially if you are having thoughts about an alternative pathway. I don't know anything about commerce but if you want to do a BSc at UoM or Monash and take commerce breadth/electives, it seems like a good way to work that out for yourself. If you do want to study medicine and you're just having doubts about whether you're ready for it, then don't let that put you off applying for the MBBS. Self awareness and an appreciation of what your future actually entails is healthy and I wouldn't say that you're necessarily "rushing into it", just because you're studying it out of highschool.

What is it about university that puts you off spending time there? If you're 18 now and graduate at 25, you'll work for the next 30 years until you're 55. Is it really that big a deal that you graduated at 23 and got to work for an extra couple of years? If you're going down the medicine pathway, you're going to be poor and lagging behind your friends in other industries for a long time anyway.

I knew two people in my degree when I started it. When I went into postgrad, I went in with probably 30 odd friends who I'd met along the way. I've probably lost that many friends again from high school. You will meet a lot of new people who you really like and you will grow apart from a lot of people you used to really like. It's just the way it works. Where your friends are going to be studying is a great thing to consider if all other things are equal (eg which university do I want to study science at) but I don't think it'll matter in this case. The friends you really care about, you will keep in touch with - I spent last weekend at the beach with people I knew in high school.

[psyxwar]

<snip>

Thanks for your help

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure. I'm interested in the field, but that's really it. I'm worried about things like job security and the fact that once I start doing it it just might not be my thing/ if i'm willing to actually commit so much of my life to work (I hear you need to work ridiculous hours as a doctor...) I don't know too much about the field, which I guess is understandable considering I'm still in high school.

Re: academic interest, I'm also interested in commerce which is why I wanted to study at university + I think it'd be helpful to have *some* background in commerce. Yeah, I've considered that not doing it at undergrad might mean I fail the GAMSAT three times or something and never end up making it into medicine which is why if I did graduate medicine ideally I'd want to qualify for guaranteed entry @ Melbourne via the Chancellor's Scholar programme. Unfortunately Melbourne doesn't offer double degrees and it doesn't look like they offer commerce diplomas either (I briefly researched the topic a while ago)

[psyxwar]

I think the American system (which UoM adopted with their model) is preferable in the majority of cases. I certainly didn't know what I wanted out of high school and I definitely don't believe 99% of high school students who tell me they absolutely want to study medicine and it's all they've ever wanted. The opportunity to spend three years evaluating yourself before making these decisions is invaluable, especially if you are having thoughts about an alternative pathway. I don't know anything about commerce but if you want to do a BSc at UoM or Monash and take commerce breadth/electives, it seems like a good way to work that out for yourself. If you do want to study medicine and you're just having doubts about whether you're ready for it, then don't let that put you off applying for the MBBS. Self awareness and an appreciation of what your future actually entails is healthy and I wouldn't say that you're necessarily "rushing into it", just because you're studying it out of highschool.

Yeah, I'm definitely not 100% set on medicine.

What is it about university that puts you off spending time there? If you're 18 now and graduate at 25, you'll work for the next 30 years until you're 55. Is it really that big a deal that you graduated at 23 and got to work for an extra couple of years? If you're going down the medicine pathway, you're going to be poor and lagging behind your friends in other industries for a long time anyway.

That really puts it into perspective, thanks. I guess from my 17 year old PoV another 7 years seems like a loonnggggg time, but I suppose in the grand scheme of things it's not a big deal.

I knew two people in my degree when I started it. When I went into postgrad, I went in with probably 30 odd friends who I'd met along the way. I've probably lost that many friends again from high school. You will meet a lot of new people who you really like and you will grow apart from a lot of people you used to really like. It's just the way it works. Where your friends are going to be studying is a great thing to consider if all other things are equal (eg which university do I want to study science at) but I don't think it'll matter in this case. The friends you really care about, you will keep in touch with - I spent last weekend at the beach with people I knew in high school.

Fair enough.

Thanks for all the input everyone. I'm not going to rush to a decision now but I'll definitely consider all these things over the course of the year. Hopefully I have a good idea of what to do by the end of yr12!

[Russ]

If you want to get some experience of what it's like, you can try contacting a senior doctor in a hospital and seeing if you can do a work experience style day with them. I occasionally run into work experience kids at the hospital and they always tell me they're finding it really interesting (even the poor girl who was freaking out a bit )

[Shenz0r]

I guess everything that would've been said by me has been pretty much covered by Stick and Russ. It's great that you're actually dwelling on this dilemma because most people don't.