Accept UoM Chancellor Scholars (Biomed/MD)? or Monash (if offered in Jan)

[glueckspilz]

Dear all,

I'm faced with a dilemma which I trust countless others have also faced. I would really like some advice on this.
- got offered into Chancellor Scholars program-  Biomed/MD
- awaiting interviews for Monash (I think I have a good chance but if I decide to go with UniMelb, I might not sit the interview)
- I'm set on studying medicine and would like to do medical research in future combined with clinical practice.

Considering this, is UniMelb better than Monash due to its 3  yrs biomed which would provide a better foundation for med research in future?
Other than the obvious differences in legnths of the degrees, what other differences are there between the two programs? - so like internship opportunities after graduating, the quality of graduates, competitiveness, etc.

AND also if I do choose Monash over UniMelb, wouldn't it be just as well that I go into UNSW med? as I'm from NSW.

Could you pls also state source when u reply i.e. current student, etc. Thanks so much:) Greatly appreciate it!

[Stick]

Perhaps see how you go with the Monash interview first and then decide. You'd hate to decide now that you'd prefer Monash and then be disappointed if find out you didn't receive an offer following your interview. Wait until all the information is available to you. There is no need to rush it.

[xenial]

Hey hey.
I'm in the same situation and I've chosen biomed.
Here's how I made my decision. EDIT: This turned into a half rant.. I don't know I guess I just really don't like Monash

- Melbourne University is centrally located and close to the city.
- I live in Fitzroy (suburb next to where UoM is)
- I plan to move out into a college (Queen's), if not this year then in the future
- Melbourne Uni colleges are much more livable than Monash colleges
- In terms of employability, people will tell you different things, but I think both unis are quite prestigious
- With the research year, Monash is 6 years compared to Melbourne being 7. But I have no idea why people take this into account when choosing their degree. What the fuck is this? A race to retirement? Do you really despise studying your 'dream career' that much?
- You get to do breadth at Melbourne during your undergraduate. Some people think this is a bad thing - I ask them how on earth they could possibly be so sure that their only career interest is medicine, when the only exposure they've had to medicine is Year 12 Chemistry. Or perhaps something else is motivating them…
- Again, broad undergraduate, so if you have a change of heart you can go into a different postgrad.
- Monash is in Clayton. If you're from NSW, you won't know what Clayton is like - let's hope it stays that way.
- I'm not sure what the scholarships at Monash are like for interstate students - but I know at Melbourne Uni you get double the cash ($10,000 a year!). Much money. Many cash. No hex as well.
- I don't have a car… taking public transport to Monash each day from my house is like a 3 hour commute. I can walk to Melbourne Uni.
- You get placed into better hospitals if you go to Melbourne.

In all seriousness though, there are plenty of reasons why Monash is a good choice as well. It really depends on how set you are on doing medicine, and how much you value lifestyle>career. The Melbourne cohort is also relatively elitist and competitive - because they have to beat each other to get into the MD. I've heard the Monash cohort is a lot more supportive.

I'm sure other people could give you more reasons on why to choose Monash - but those above outline my reasons for choosing Melbourne.

Hope it all goes well for you
Alex.

[Russ]

There are several older threads on the forum about this issue and comparing melbourne/monash, I'd recommend you go back through the health science forum and look at the threads posted in December 2012/2011 etc. since you'll get to see a fair bit of analysis there.

eg.
Monash Med or Chancellor's Biomed

I generally don't mind answering specific questions but the entire compare/contrast thing is pretty vague, so I'll leave that to others

[pi]

Another one to looks at is UoM Chancellor's Scholar's program Vs Monash MBBS

You PM'd me and I honestly don't think I'm the best person to ask, but I guess this was your main question (which I'll tackle here):

Hi pi,
I noticed you're studying med at Monash. Just wondering how you feel the program is, and how it compares to the UniMelb's medicine program?

Well I can't talk about the MD program as I don't know much about it other than the basic framework, and it's never been something I was aiming towards, so I'll leave details like that for Russ (and others?).

As for the Monash course, I think it's great. Of course I have nothing to compare it to, but I think it's really good. The cohort is ~310, and lectures are with the whole cohort and tutes are in groups of 15 or less (each type of tute has different people), so you really get to know each other pretty well. Being one of the few undergrad courses left, it's got a more of the academic "high achievers" (by rising median ATAR) than in previous years, so you'll find that there are a lot of like-minded people there and it's very easy to make friends. The same cohort for 5 years, pretty much like a second family.

I think the course is pretty fun too. I enjoy most of what we learn, and there are plenty of social events (Med Ball, med camp, pub crawls, as well as heaps of non-alco events) being run by one of the most active med socs in Australia (MUMUS). Being in Clayton, which is in the south-eastern suburbs of Melb (about 25-30mins out of the CBD by train), you'll find that most of non-med events will be campus focused, that is, that there are heaps of activities that will happen on the campus rather than in neighboring areas.

In addition to the MBBS, there is an optional research year (B.MedSci) and you can do a Dip.Arts (and the like) as well alongside your main studies, both of which are popular options for many.

If it helps, from my school in my year (2011), 6 people were offered Chancellor's: 5 came to Monash MBBS and 1 went to UoM (he also had the lowest UMAT of the 6 iirc).

Having said that, I'd like to clarify a few things:

- You get placed into better hospitals if you go to Melbourne.

If by "better" you mean "bigger", then yes. You get the Royals and many other big hospitals, however, one disadvantage I've heard from UoM MBBS grads is that some of these aren't the best teaching hospitals in terms of the skills a medical student is required to develop as there are so many other people ahead of you in the pecking order too. Although that was purely something I've heard from a few people, it's just food for thought.

- You get to do breadth at Melbourne during your undergraduate. Some people think this is a bad thing - I ask them how on earth they could possibly be so sure that their only career interest is medicine, when the only exposure they've had to medicine is Year 12 Chemistry. Or perhaps something else is motivating them…

Although Monash doesn't allow maths and things, there is a Dip.Arts and one for languages too. So you can develop your interests in other areas too.

- I'm not sure what the scholarships at Monash are like for interstate students - but I know at Melbourne Uni you get double the cash ($10,000 a year!). Much money. Many cash. No hex as well.

As far as I know your scholarship isn't for the MD but only for the 3 year Bachelors? The Monash one is for the whole degree and they can be quite generous too:
- 99.95 -> http://www.monash.edu.au/study/scholarships/sir-john/exceptional/
- 99.90 -> http://www.monash.edu.au/study/scholarships/sir-john/outstanding/

The Melbourne cohort is also relatively elitist and competitive - because they have to beat each other to get into the MD. I've heard the Monash cohort is a lot more supportive.

I've heard this too, although I've heard the UoM Biomed cohort's aren't *that* bad, it does get exaggerated. But yeah, the general vibe I get from mates in years above and below me in both Monash MBBS and UoM Biomed is that the Biomed cohort seems a lot more competitive (which is probably understandable).

[xenial]

Oooo I like how you deconstructed my comment. V. cool.

You're right, however, if money is your sole motivation (and hey, why else are we becoming doctors right?.. kidding ) the Monash scholarship is stellar. I figure, however, I'll spend a lot of that on the car I would have to maintain going there each day. Haha.

As for the hospitals, I wasn't aware people thought that! It seems people give different opinions on this subject as well. 

Diplomas don't really offer the same opportunities as the range of breadth subjects, but yes! You're right. Keep in mind there is more emphasis on a broad education in biomedicine though.

[Russ]

I'm at one of the major metropolitan UoM affiliated hospitals and the number of times I've missed out on teaching opportunities because of busy hospitals or other people is countable on one hand. I can remember once when a surgeon cancelled because he had a tute with different medical students and that's about it.

[pi]

I'm at one of the major metropolitan UoM affiliated hospitals and the number of times I've missed out on teaching opportunities because of busy hospitals or other people is countable on one hand. I can remember once when a surgeon cancelled because he had a tute with different medical students and that's about it.

I was more referring to there being more practical learning opportunities in smaller hospitals compared to the larger ones, more-so than those higher up cancelling tutes on their students.

[glueckspilz]

Thanks so much everyone for your replies! It's my first time to post here so I'm really glad to get such honest answers from all of you:)

Honestly speaking, now I'm quite swayed by Pi to choose Monash mainly due to the fact they you can do arts which would allow me to explore my interest in languages, and secondly, also as it seems graduates from monash seem to come out with better clinical skills and have more opportunities to learn in smaller hospitals.

The problem though is I changed previously UniMelb to first preference and Monash second, and now it's too late to change back. So my question is if I do get and pass Monash interview in Jan, can I still get an offer from Monash even though it's my second preference? It sucks how VTAC doesn't have second change of preference date like NSW

I have really jumped ahead but back to the present- now I'm worried about the Monash interview. Anyone have any tips? Hardest station? How best to answer some of the harder ethical Qs?

I might, or actually, I'm certain I'll change my mind back and forth again btw now and VTAC offers. so indecisive!

Also, xenial: I have applied for Queen's college too! Though I just sent in my application today. When did you apply?
Does anyone know if I'm still eligible for place at Queen's if I decided to go to Monash?

I hope to meet you all one day!  Thnx again

P.S. I got a conditional Monash scholarship for outstanding achievement- by conditional, does that mean if I get an offer from the uni? and also, ISN'T IT REALLY HARD TO MAINTAIN THAT DISTINCTION AVERAGE GPA 7??

[brightsky]

You're right, however, if money is your sole motivation (and hey, why else are we becoming doctors right?.. kidding ) the Monash scholarship is stellar.

How generous is the Monash Scholarship for Exceptional Achievement compared to the Melbourne National Scholarship?

[Russ]

I was more referring to there being more practical learning opportunities in smaller hospitals compared to the larger ones, more-so than those higher up cancelling tutes on their students.

I don't think any of the Monash hospitals are small enough for this to matter. MMC, Alfred, Frankston etc. are all pretty reasonably sized hospitals, they're just not the massive sub-specialty behemoths that the RMH etc. are. You're not going to get substantially more clinical teaching or learning experiences. It's advantageous for other reasons (and disadvantageous for others), but there are plenty of practical learning opportunities in both.

[pi]

The problem though is I changed previously UniMelb to first preference and Monash second, and now it's too late to change back. So my question is if I do get and pass Monash interview in Jan, can I still get an offer from Monash even though it's my second preference? It sucks how VTAC doesn't have second change of preference date like NSW

I have a mate that managed to get the MBBS after VTAC offers, I think they call them "Negotiated Offers" these days (there's a para or two on this here How Do Tertiary Offers Work?). It is possible

I have really jumped ahead but back to the present- now I'm worried about the Monash interview. Anyone have any tips? Hardest station? How best to answer some of the harder ethical Qs?

I'd suggest working through some stations with some friends/family. There is plenty of sample stations on sites such as PagingDr (eg. http://pagingdr.net/forum/index.php?topic=4185.0) and MSO (which is currently down... ><"). The interview isn't that hard, I found it to be much better than a panel one.

P.S. I got a conditional Monash scholarship for outstanding achievement- by conditional, does that mean if I get an offer from the uni? and also, ISN'T IT REALLY HARD TO MAINTAIN THAT DISTINCTION AVERAGE GPA 7??

I got a Distinction average and I don't feel I worked that hard at all. It shouldn't be too hard to maintain if you put in semi-consistent work The median of the cohort lies somewhere around a low distinction / high credit, if that helps. I recently posted this in another thread, seems relevant:

Some people really want the HD and a lot of them (not all) study heaps and miss out on much of the social side. Personally I was happy at a distinction level for pre-clin years (which I achieved) so I didn't find it to be too intense, albeit a lot more difficult that Year 12. The assignments in med are really easy, so it's not too hard to get a credit average (which I think may have been the median for my cohort looking at our final exams) and hence not too hard to get.

I don't think any of the Monash hospitals are small enough for this to matter. MMC, Alfred, Frankston etc. are all pretty reasonably sized hospitals, they're just not the massive sub-specialty behemoths that the RMH etc. are. You're not going to get substantially more clinical teaching or learning experiences. It's advantageous for other reasons (and disadvantageous for others), but there are plenty of practical learning opportunities in both.

Monash also has much saller hospitals like Angliss and Cabrini (which is private), although you're definitely right, positives and negatives for big vs small.

[xenial]

How generous is the Monash Scholarship for Exceptional Achievement compared to the Melbourne National Scholarship?

Melbourne national - $5,000 a year for three years, no hex for undergraduate so around 40-45,000 in total. That's an estimate of course.
Exceptional Achievement - $12,000 upfront per year for five years, so around 60,000 in total (plus healthy lifestyle package etc. etc.). I'd prefer the money upfront to be honest, because hex will only constitute a small percentage of your overall income when it comes to actually paying it off. 

[Stick]

Melbourne national - $5,000 a year for three years, no hex for undergraduate so around 40-45,000 in total. That's an estimate of course.
Exceptional Achievement - $12,000 upfront per year for five years, so around 60,000 in total (plus healthy lifestyle package etc. etc.). I'd prefer the money upfront to be honest, because hex will only constitute a small percentage of your overall income when it comes to actually paying it off. 

I think the Melbourne National Scholarship estimate is incorrect. We were told the HECS fees are $40500, in addition to $15000 which makes the whole scholarship approximately $55500. Monash is still slightly better value, particularly if you prefer to receive your money directly rather than having your HECS fees waived.

The real difference is for those such as myself who got 99.90 - the Melbourne National Scholarship is much better value. To be honest, I feel sorry for those who couldn't achieve 99.95 due to their subjects, since they're effectively cheated against in this system.

[Shenz0r]

he Melbourne cohort is also relatively elitist and competitive - because they have to beat each other to get into the MD. I've heard the Monash cohort is a lot more supportive.

From what I've experienced in the UoM Biomed cohort, yes, there are many motivated people, but it's not cut-throat. More than anything, the cohort is fully supportive of each other and tries to help as many people as possible.