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June 20, 2024, 02:52:41 pm

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lm21074

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Re: Australia's response to Coronavirus is disproportionate
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2021, 01:17:04 am »
+8
could you please address the double standards? Which protests and gatherings are allowed and which aren't.


For what it's worth, the way the news team behind that story wished to report both gatherings was for dramatic appeal to get their viewers to watch it. Both gatherings were technically 'not allowed', but one was centered around defying public health messaging around vaccination and amplifying negative attitudes around vaccines using the guise of healthcare workers. which might be passed onto the general public more readily (we also have not much information on whether they were all healthcare workers or not). As you would know, protests, including those about COVID restrictions in recent days have turned violent, which has justified the imminent police presence compared to what was seen with the footy fans. If you watch the full story, it goes on to show people celebrating in their homes within restrictions, which is what the reporter was referring to and is not shown in the Tweet. We also don't know about other details including if the police were aware of this gathering or showed up later, impacting on how they could have enforced the restrictions. I think we need more context here.


I appreciate we all have different views, but this is a reminder to all to abide by the forum rules and keep discussion on this volatile topic civil and respectful.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 03:07:51 pm by lm21074 »
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Snow Leopard

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Re: Australia's response to Coronavirus is disproportionate
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2021, 09:45:10 am »
0
I appreciate we all have different views, but this is a reminder to abide by the forum rules and keep discussion civil and respectful.
I'm not sure if this is directed towards me, but if so could you please point out where I have been uncivil?

Greater community transmission increases the risk to just about every individual in that community, and there are limits to how much individual precautions can reduce that risk.  Greater case numbers also increases the burden on the healthcare system, which will affect everyone requiring hospitalisation, not just those hospitalised due to Covid.

(Oh, and it's not just the healthcare system - a large percentage of the population voluntarily reducing their activity and staying home because of fear of an infectious disease doesn't do wonders for the economy either...)
Are you not contradicting yourself here?

heids

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Re: Australia's response to Coronavirus is disproportionate
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2021, 03:03:36 pm »
+13
@tiredandstressed, I'm concerned that this thread is simply bolstering each side's opinions and increasing the divide.  Suggesting that someone is ignorant, uneducated, selfish, without conscience, should become a better person, etc, is unlikely to do any good to anyone.  Ideally, language should focus on the issue/argument (e.g. importance of peer-reviewed sources, or why X source is unreliable and biased), rather than the individual (e.g. "your lack of understanding", lots of sentences starting with "you").

I do agree that misinformation is dangerous, particularly anti-vaccination misinformation, but I really don't think that all/most protesters are selfish or have bad motives.
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turinturambar

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Re: Australia's response to Coronavirus is disproportionate
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2021, 01:30:31 am »
+12
Are you not contradicting yourself here?

I don't think so.  The bigger picture part of the story is the question of whether the real problem is a dangerous and contagious virus (which lockdown restrictions are attempting to contain) or whether the real problem is unnecessary and unacceptable government overreach (shown in lockdown restrictions).  And there is probably some of both, but I believe the real problem is the virus, and that, broadly speaking, our current set of restrictions are necessary for controlling the virus, and without those control measures we would have a bigger problem on our hands.

This applies to economic arguments too.  If the real problem was the restrictions, then immediately after easing them we would see the economy and life return to normal.  Looking around the rest of the world, I don't think that's true.  We've seen places that eased restrictions and then had to reimpose them.  We've seen places that removed restrictions, but many individuals have been more cautious with their activity, particularly if case numbers rose as a result of restrictions being removed.  That has an effect on the economy.  One of the goals of getting higher vaccination numbers and lower case numbers (the lower case numbers in part through our current lockdown) is to give individuals less reason to worry and more chance to act normally and safely (though personally I don't think we'll be completely back to "normal").

The mental health issue is a real issue.  I'm certainly not denying it.  And it's not an individual issue - it's a community issue.  It's something that I gather is expected to continue to affect many for years.  However, like the economic case, I don't think it's something we can consider without considering the virus.  If case numbers rise sharply, many people will find it harder to cope.  With Victoria's leap in numbers today I could see it on the ABC live blog and in the people I interacted with (electronically).  If someone close to you becomes seriously ill or dies, that will have a mental health impact, and higher case numbers will mean that happens to more people.  Being on a ventilator will have a mental health impact.  And an overloaded hospital system will have a significant mental health impact on the workers within that hospital system.  From this recent article:
Quote
A recent survey of more than 7800 Australian health care workers, most of whom were based in Victoria, found more than 40 per cent had symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder by the final stages of the state’s second wave (although few recognised them as such).

I'm not going to try and weigh up the costs of different strategies to find the perfect strategy for either the economy or for mental health.  It's way above my pay grade.  Maybe we could find different tradeoffs that are a bit better, maybe we couldn't.  But I think it's important to remember that, at least in my view, the real problem is the virus.  I would love to be able to go back to a world much more like late 2019.  But we can't.  Every approach has costs and places burdens on the entire community (though those burdens are unequally distributed, and different approaches may shift burdens to different parts of the population).
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Professor Polonsky

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Re: Australia's response to Coronavirus is disproportionate
« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2021, 05:41:45 pm »
+5
I do agree that misinformation is dangerous, particularly anti-vaccination misinformation, but I really don't think that all/most protesters are selfish or have bad motives.
The protests are literally the neo-fash astroturfing tho.

blueycan

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Re: Australia's response to Coronavirus is disproportionate
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2021, 05:49:10 pm »
+6
If we take a look at the actions of these protestors, and their public backgrounds as reported on by the news, some of the recent demonstrators and organisers of these demonstrators have extreme right-wing or even Nazi-level affiliations. September's anti-lockdown "protestors" who also proceed to defy mask mandates, litter and urinate on places of public importance, abuse police officers, horses and reporters DO have bad motives, and unfortunately, they made up the majority of the demonstration.

I understand that it's important to remain objective on a platform such as AN, with respect to the community guidelines. But it's inevitable to have some sort of opinion on the necessity or validity of these protests during these times. The actions I have mentioned above are selfish– I have relatives and relatives of friends who are construction workers who are embarrassed by the selfish nature of the guise of a construction worker protest, when in reality, it was joined by anti-lockdown conspiracists looking for another outlet.


Sources:
https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/channel-7-reporter-paul-dowsley-sprayed-with-urine-by-protesters-in-melbourne/news-story/b411e92951df730b0df1f932c5ca3332

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/21/what-do-we-know-about-the-protests-in-melbourne-and-how-did-the-numbers-grow
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 05:59:43 pm by blueycan »

georgianab21

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Re: Australia's response to Coronavirus is disproportionate
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2021, 06:55:22 pm »
+5
at least the weather is getting nicer😀

Chavonne Earl

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Re: Australia's response to Coronavirus is disproportionate
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2021, 07:14:48 pm »
+6
moral of the story #getjabbed