Suggestions for uni courses

[amyzzwq]

Hi,
I'm currently filling in my vtac course preferences and I'm not sure if I should study at unimelb or monash, interested in being a teacher so I'm considering the four years course at monash, but because if the Melbourne model, I have to study 5 years (beachelors then masters) at unimelb to be a teacher

but then again, when I think about it, if I decide to go to monash, then the only thing that I'm aiming for is to be a teacher since that's what the course is for, which closed a lot of doors and opportunities for me if i changed my mind in the future.
so i'm here to ask for any opinions or suggestions that anyone might have to help me make my decision
btw, i actually heard from my mom's friend that unimelb are more for people to are looking into the research field because u have to write lots of essays and stuff, but monash is more practical so the students get more work opportunities and work on hands-on things. Is that true?

Also, when I went to the campus at monash, (I didn't really like the environment), maybe it has something to do with the weather that day too, it was freezing and there was barely anyone on campus but when i went to unimelb there were so many people and it was buzzing w acitivity on the field outside

[Sine]

Hi,
I'm currently filling in my vtac course preferences and I'm not sure if I should study at unimelb or monash, interested in being a teacher so I'm considering the four years course at monash, but because if the Melbourne model, I have to study 5 years (beachelors then masters) at unimelb to be a teacher

but then again, when I think about it, if I decide to go to monash, then the only thing that I'm aiming for is to be a teacher since that's what the course is for, which closed a lot of doors and opportunities for me if i changed my mind in the future.
so i'm here to ask for any opinions or suggestions that anyone might have to help me make my decision
btw, i actually heard from my mom's friend that unimelb are more for people to are looking into the research field because u have to write lots of essays and stuff, but monash is more practical so the students get more work opportunities and work on hands-on things. Is that true?

Also, when I went to the campus at monash, (I didn't really like the environment), maybe it has something to do with the weather that day too, it was freezing and there was barely anyone on campus but when i went to unimelb there were so many people and it was buzzing w acitivity on the field outside

From experience, most people I've known who have wanted to become a teacher in year 12 went to Monash since that pathway seemed more straightforward. Others who have changed their mind and wanted to do teaching often would then do a masters of teaching either at monash or melbourne. I still think transfers are possible if you change your mind with monash but it may increase the length of time at university (although 1-2 years is not a lot).

I can't speak to the differences in terms of teaching between unimelb and monash but broadly it does seem like those differences are there in other fields such as engineering.

In terms of activity on campus it may have just been the day, I feel like pre-pandemic both universities had a similar desnsity of people on campus.

[AngelWings]

From what I remember, Monash offers double degrees of Bachelor of Education with most other areas, so you won’t necessarily be stuck doing one area. If you choose to be a teacher, the “other degree” can become one of your specialities/ method areas, but if you choose not to be a teacher after, you’ve got the other degree as an alternate pathway. Maybe that would help, if you’re not certain about teaching? What other areas are you interested in? Perhaps there’s a way you can do both.

I would advise that you read a few of Hon Mod Aaron’s posts, which you can do here. He is now a qualified teacher and has been teaching for a few years now and often details what is involved with becoming a teacher in his posts.

[Aaron]

If I were you and had the capability to do it, i'd do the bachelor then masters. I think it's the best way to do things for a few reasons:
a) You get two degrees in the end - bachelor then masters.
b) You have a back up degree in case things turn south as a teacher.
c) You get valuable life experience - an extra 3 years of immersing yourself in a different discipline before deciding to start teaching.

A double degree could also achieve this. The key difference in my opinion is that masters degrees require a level of research whether that be a capstone, a literature review, mini thesis, etc. In my MTeach at Monash, I had the option of either doing a research unit which involved a thesis, or a specific study area with a literature review. Safe to say I had no interest in doing a Ed.D or Ph.D so I just went with the latter.

I personally opted for the Bachelor then Masters pathway because while I reeeaaalllyy wanted to be a teacher, I wanted the security of a back up in case things turned bad (safe to say they haven't, yet...) AND I also had three full years of focusing purely on the academic side of my method areas before I decided to go and teach it. In fact, I am really glad I chose this way because it allowed me to develop some very strong academic skills particularly in maths that I didn't have previously. I originally wanted to do business and computing as my teaching method areas but shifted around 1 semester into my comp degree to maths from business. So now I teach maths and computing.

I couldn't imagine myself just doing a teaching degree without actually doing that 3 year bachelor's degree first.

The real issue in my opinion is undergrad teaching degrees that aren't part of a double degree program - this severs any chance you have at learning real in depth content required to teach. Just because you learnt it at school yourself and did reasonably well at it, does not indicate that you can teach it well. It's a good start, sure, but it definitely is no significant measure. I have seen student teachers who are year 12 school leavers who personally have had great academic success yet (to put it absolutely bluntly) suck in the classroom - no rapport, no relatability, no enthusiasm for their subject matter.

btw, i actually heard from my mom's friend that unimelb are more for people to are looking into the research field because u have to write lots of essays and stuff, but monash is more practical so the students get more work opportunities and work on hands-on things.

Education is a discipline at uni that requires essay writing. There's no avoiding it. I did my MTeach at Monash and there were heaps. Expect it whereever you go.

tl;dr double degree or bachelor then masters. avoid teaching undergrad on its own. It'll pay off in the long term.

Anyway, happy to chat about it anytime feel free to reply or PM. Cheers

[amyzzwq]

From what I remember, Monash offers double degrees of Bachelor of Education with most other areas, so you won’t necessarily be stuck doing one area. If you choose to be a teacher, the “other degree” can become one of your specialities/ method areas, but if you choose not to be a teacher after, you’ve got the other degree as an alternate pathway. Maybe that would help, if you’re not certain about teaching? What other areas are you interested in? Perhaps there’s a way you can do both.

I would advise that you read a few of Hon Mod Aaron’s posts, which you can do here. He is now a qualified teacher and has been teaching for a few years now and often details what is involved with becoming a teacher in his posts.

Hi, tbh im a little lost in my future career options, for the whole year i've been looking through courses for teachers but i'm not too sure if i want to be a teacher now. I think its a stable job and teachers get summer holidays and school holidays throughout the year, ive been wanting to teach math subjects but im questioning my own ability to do math now.
I am considering the double degree at monash, so bachelor of education and science but part of me dont want to go down the education route so fast in case i change my mind and could have end up studying something that is more worthwhile than the education course for teachers.

I am also considering working in office, so maybe consulting, accountant etc
if i apply for unimelb ill probably choose bachelor of science, good thing about unimelb is that i dont have to decalre my major the first year so i can explore around and decide what im really interested in

p.s. growing up is so scary

[amyzzwq]

If I were you and had the capability to do it, i'd do the bachelor then masters. I think it's the best way to do things for a few reasons:
a) You get two degrees in the end - bachelor then masters.
b) You have a back up degree in case things turn south as a teacher.
c) You get valuable life experience - an extra 3 years of immersing yourself in a different discipline before deciding to start teaching.

A double degree could also achieve this. The key difference in my opinion is that masters degrees require a level of research whether that be a capstone, a literature review, mini thesis, etc. In my MTeach at Monash, I had the option of either doing a research unit which involved a thesis, or a specific study area with a literature review. Safe to say I had no interest in doing a Ed.D or Ph.D so I just went with the latter.

I personally opted for the Bachelor then Masters pathway because while I reeeaaalllyy wanted to be a teacher, I wanted the security of a back up in case things turned bad (safe to say they haven't, yet...) AND I also had three full years of focusing purely on the academic side of my method areas before I decided to go and teach it. In fact, I am really glad I chose this way because it allowed me to develop some very strong academic skills particularly in maths that I didn't have previously. I originally wanted to do business and computing as my teaching method areas but shifted around 1 semester into my comp degree to maths from business. So now I teach maths and computing.

I couldn't imagine myself just doing a teaching degree without actually doing that 3 year bachelor's degree first.

The real issue in my opinion is undergrad teaching degrees that aren't part of a double degree program - this severs any chance you have at learning real in depth content required to teach. Just because you learnt it at school yourself and did reasonably well at it, does not indicate that you can teach it well. It's a good start, sure, but it definitely is no significant measure. I have seen student teachers who are year 12 school leavers who personally have had great academic success yet (to put it absolutely bluntly) suck in the classroom - no rapport, no relatability, no enthusiasm for their subject matter.
Education is a discipline at uni that requires essay writing. There's no avoiding it. I did my MTeach at Monash and there were heaps. Expect it whereever you go.

tl;dr double degree or bachelor then masters. avoid teaching undergrad on its own. It'll pay off in the long term.

Anyway, happy to chat about it anytime feel free to reply or PM. Cheers

Hi, thanks for providing an insight into what you did at monash, can I just double check you did the bachelor degree first then masters at monash instead of doing a double degree? I'm actually interested in teaching math too, I am really interested in math and its been my favourite subject since year 9, but i feel like my skills degraded so much since middle school and I'm not sure if I can handle it well if I continue learning it in uni much less teach someone.
Would you like to share your confidence in the subject and how learning math in uni is like before choosing to teach it?

[Aaron]

Hi, thanks for providing an insight into what you did at monash, can I just double check you did the bachelor degree first then masters at monash instead of doing a double degree? I'm actually interested in teaching math too, I am really interested in math and its been my favourite subject since year 9, but i feel like my skills degraded so much since middle school and I'm not sure if I can handle it well if I continue learning it in uni much less teach someone.
Would you like to share your confidence in the subject and how learning math in uni is like before choosing to teach it?

Fire away, happy to answer any questions (just don't expect a reply immediately - I only check AN every so often)

Yes I did do a bachelor then masters. My bachelor's degree focused on IT (it was basically all computer science anyway by the time I had my transcript at the end, looked nearly identical to the course plan) then went to a different uni (Monash) and did the MTeach after that. I was 22 when I started teaching even going down this route - such a scary thing being so young and then having that much responsibility.

I wasn't that great at maths in school. I was okay, but not fantastic to the point where (at that time) I would've had the confidence to teach.  That obviously isn't the case now but I do think this initial experience I had in school helps me be a very effective teacher because I know from my own experience how students feel in maths and the pitfalls that need to be remembered (because I made those mistakes myself!)

Just for clarity's sake... most of my "maths" units were statistical science which you could argue is more on the applied side of things. I did do discrete maths as part of my bachelor degree as well but in terms of anything high level, not really. As i've progressed throughout years of teaching, I have filled the gaps I didn't know previously and can comprehend concepts much much easier than what I could before. When student learning is at stake it motivates me to go and learn what i'm teaching to the best of my ability and cater for any questions that might come my way. I still do it to this day but obviously i'm a lot better at it now than I was a few years ago

Like I said in my previous post, I originally was going to do business and computing but had a change one semester in. I did a 1st year stats sub at uni and the lecturer was amazing like to the point where he made it fun, engaging and interesting. I think also being removed from a school environment into a more adult environment like university really helped as well. I don't like to use peer pressure as an excuse but it definitely exists in a schooling environment.

I then went on and managed to pick up a minor in it - did another one at 1st year then one at 2nd and 3rd year (focusing on biostatistics).

I really see myself as more of a junior maths specialist - most of my teaching experience so far is junior years (partially by choice - I love it) but have taught up to Year 11 maths.

The actual teaching course doesn't teach you content in maths, its more *how* it should be taught/implemented. So it really assumes you know the content.

Realistically in most cases if you are a teacher of Maths you are expected to be able to teach up to Year 12 which does include Methods and Specialist so any experience/exposure you can get would be very beneficial.

[amyzzwq]

Fire away, happy to answer any questions (just don't expect a reply immediately - I only check AN every so often)

Yes I did do a bachelor then masters. My bachelor's degree focused on IT (it was basically all computer science anyway by the time I had my transcript at the end, looked nearly identical to the course plan) then went to a different uni (Monash) and did the MTeach after that. I was 22 when I started teaching even going down this route - such a scary thing being so young and then having that much responsibility.

I wasn't that great at maths in school. I was okay, but not fantastic to the point where (at that time) I would've had the confidence to teach.  That obviously isn't the case now but I do think this initial experience I had in school helps me be a very effective teacher because I know from my own experience how students feel in maths and the pitfalls that need to be remembered (because I made those mistakes myself!)

Just for clarity's sake... most of my "maths" units were statistical science which you could argue is more on the applied side of things. I did do discrete maths as part of my bachelor degree as well but in terms of anything high level, not really. As i've progressed throughout years of teaching, I have filled the gaps I didn't know previously and can comprehend concepts much much easier than what I could before. When student learning is at stake it motivates me to go and learn what i'm teaching to the best of my ability and cater for any questions that might come my way. I still do it to this day but obviously i'm a lot better at it now than I was a few years ago

Like I said in my previous post, I originally was going to do business and computing but had a change one semester in. I did a 1st year stats sub at uni and the lecturer was amazing like to the point where he made it fun, engaging and interesting. I think also being removed from a school environment into a more adult environment like university really helped as well. I don't like to use peer pressure as an excuse but it definitely exists in a schooling environment.

I then went on and managed to pick up a minor in it - did another one at 1st year then one at 2nd and 3rd year (focusing on biostatistics).

I really see myself as more of a junior maths specialist - most of my teaching experience so far is junior years (partially by choice - I love it) but have taught up to Year 11 maths.

The actual teaching course doesn't teach you content in maths, its more *how* it should be taught/implemented. So it really assumes you know the content.

Realistically in most cases if you are a teacher of Maths you are expected to be able to teach up to Year 12 which does include Methods and Specialist so any experience/exposure you can get would be very beneficial.

Hi, thank you once again, dont worry about the late replies.
I've been considering to major in math at unimelb and its so intimidating because I haven't been doing as well in methods as spec as I expected myself to. 
Anyway, thanks for sharing once again, hopefully I figure the right uni and career option for myself.