Q/A and advice for 2012/Future VCE Japanese Students

[jibba]

Yeah, that sentence is correct but in VCE it's better to use a grammar pattern in your sentences!
果物と同じように肉が好きです。

[RazzMeTazz]

Yeah, that sentence is correct but in VCE it's better to use a grammar pattern in your sentences!
果物と同じように肉が好きです。

Ohh okay thanks, I'll focus on incorporating a variety of grammar patterns into my sentences then! Thanks

[RazzMeTazz]

In VCE will you get marks taken of for writing a word without including the kanji in it?

Because for some words such as: こんにちは and できます I recently learnt that they can be written in kanji as: 今日は、and
出来ます respectively. However I have rarely seen such spellings used, and my Japanese teacher told me last year that writing こんにちは as 今日は is strange and rarely seen in Japanese.

So my question is, when writing Japanese words must we always include kanji ( as per the VCE course) or just stick to hiragana if the word is usually written in hiragana anyway? (Such as こんにちは and できます)

Thanks!

[jibba]

I think できます in hiragana is okay, but I always write こんにちは as 今日は. It makes sense to write it using the kanji because it shortens the amount of boxes you would use in your genkoyoshi! 

[RazzMeTazz]

I think できます in hiragana is okay, but I always write こんにちは as 今日は. It makes sense to write it using the kanji because it shortens the amount of boxes you would use in your genkoyoshi!

Ohhh okay that is a good point! Thankyou for answering my questions!

[Fyrefly]

I think できます in hiragana is okay, but I always write こんにちは as 今日は. It makes sense to write it using the kanji because it shortens the amount of boxes you would use in your genkoyoshi! 

Honestly, writing either in kanji is unusual.

I actually strongly recommend against writing 「今日は」... I've never seen a modern-day Japanese write it like that.

Also, I write 「出来ます」 but I had a teacher tell me recently that I should write 「できます」. I still write it in kanji out of habit, but it's probably better to write 「できます」.

[sarangiya]

Honestly, writing either in kanji is unusual.

I actually strongly recommend against writing 「今日は」... I've never seen a modern-day Japanese write it like that.

Also, I write 「出来ます」 but I had a teacher tell me recently that I should write 「できます」. I still write it in kanji out of habit, but it's probably better to write 「できます」.

I have been told off for writing 行けません instead of いけません and 置きます instead of おきます for grammar (i.e. 掃除しないと行けません, 今から準備して置きます). And that's even though it's still technically correct.
If any of you use http://jisho.org , it usually says 'usually in kana' or something like that. I usually check like that/use the hiragana version because there is nothing wrong with it.
Not that I'm an expert or anything lol 

[RazzMeTazz]

Hello,

I'm a bit confused about the words 国さい（こくさい）and 国さいてき（こくさいてき）as they both mean 'International.'
However the second word is an adjective, whilst the first one (国さい）is not.

In my dictionary (Kodansha) it says 国さい is added to noun bases to make a word. For example, 国さい電話（こくさいでんわ）= International phone.

But if you used 国さいてきな電話 wouldn't that also translate to 'International phone'?

So my two main questions are:
1.) When would you be able to distinguish between which word to use （国さい vs 国さいてき）
2.) What is the word 国さい classified as grammatically if it not an adjective?

[sarangiya]

Hello,

I'm a bit confused about the words 国さい（こくさい）and 国さいてき（こくさいてき）as they both mean 'International.'
However the second word is an adjective, whilst the first one (国さい）is not.

In my dictionary (Kodansha) it says 国さい is added to noun bases to make a word. For example, 国さい電話（こくさいでんわ）= International phone.

But if you used 国さいてきな電話 wouldn't that also translate to 'International phone'?

So my two main questions are:
1.) When would you be able to distinguish between which word to use （国さい vs 国さいてき）
2.) What is the word 国さい classified as grammatically if it not an adjective?

Well, unfortunately for us languages aren't just big blobs of words that can be directly translated and make perfect sense. Step one to learning a language is to learn that it's not English 

Yes, 国際的（な）is an adjective. 的 is a suffix added to some nouns to make them adjectives. It can be translated as "-like" or something similar. Some words like that are: 個人的（こじんてき）personal, 伝統的（でんとうてき）traditional.

国際 is a noun. You can attach it to other nouns to make them like a title, kind of? Like 国際関係（こくさいかんけい）International Relations -- the subject, not putting emphasis that it means 'relations that are international'.

Using 国際的な電話 is wrong because it's like you're saying the phone itself is international. Like it's been flying to countries around the world. When in actuality, it's like a title. International Phone. The phone isn't international -- it doesn't travel or anything, it's just a phone... that is used for international things?
So,
1) Use 国際的 is an adjective that clearly labels something as 'international' and 国際 as a noun that loosely suggests international uses or something. 国際 is more commonly used as opposed to 国際的. Here are some example sentences for each:
国際：
英語は国際言語である。    English is an international language.
成田には国際空港がある。    There is an international airport in Narita.
　^{Take note that it's not 'English is a language that is international' and 'There is an airport that is international in Narita' - it's like the the whole two words are the one single noun. International language, international airport.}
国際的：
彼女は国際的に著名な画家です。    She has international renown as a painter.
麻薬汚染の問題は国際的である。    The drug problem is international.
　^{Now compare. It's just 'international renown'. As in the renown is international, recognized by the world. Then the second is an even better example. It just simply says 'international'. It's simply describing that the drug problem happens everywhere in the wold... it is international.}
2) A noun.

I hope I helped but I also hope some other people better at Japanese will be able to give you their opinions/better insight lol.

[jibba]

Great answer from sarangiya! Very indepth and correct! Great understanding ! (y)

I'll just re-iterate in my own words

You basically identified the difference yourself: こくさい is a noun and こくさいてき is the adjective.
1) To distinguish when to use them is to identify if you are describing a noun (then use the adjective) or you just stating the name of something
ie: 私は国際関係（こくさいかんけい）の仕事（しごと）をしたいです
I want to work in international relations

私は国際的な経験（こくさいてきなけいけん）が欲しいい
I want international experience

You can see in the second sentence how the こくさいてきな describes the けいけん, so in that case you needed to use 的 but for the first sentence you state the name of the field of work (international relations) so you don't need to use the describing word.   

2) as stated before it's a noun.

頑張って！

[Fyrefly]

I have been told off for writing 行けません instead of いけません and 置きます instead of おきます for grammar (i.e. 掃除しないと行けません, 今から準備して置きます). And that's even though it's still technically correct.
If any of you use http://jisho.org , it usually says 'usually in kana' or something like that. I usually check like that/use the hiragana version because there is nothing wrong with it.
Not that I'm an expert or anything lol 

Ah yeah, don't write those in kanji either! Rule of thumb is that if it's used in a grammatical sense, you don't write the verb in kanji. I don't know if that's a satisfactory explanation, but it seems like you already get it anyway.

[sarangiya]

Ah yeah, don't write those in kanji either! Rule of thumb is that if it's used in a grammatical sense, you don't write the verb in kanji. I don't know if that's a satisfactory explanation, but it seems like you already get it anyway.

It was, thank you  Hopefully it might help some others who made the same mistake as I lol.

Great answer from sarangiya! Very indepth and correct! Great understanding ! (y)

I'll just re-iterate in my own words

You basically identified the difference yourself: こくさい is a noun and こくさいてき is the adjective.
1) To distinguish when to use them is to identify if you are describing a noun (then use the adjective) or you just stating the name of something
ie: 私は国際関係（こくさいかんけい）の仕事（しごと）をしたいです
I want to work in international relations

私は国際的な経験（こくさいてきなけいけん）が欲しいい
I want international experience

You can see in the second sentence how the こくさいてきな describes the けいけん, so in that case you needed to use 的 but for the first sentence you state the name of the field of work (international relations) so you don't need to use the describing word.   

2) as stated before it's a noun.

頑張って！

Thanks so much 
Great answer from you as well (さすがjibbaさんですねー）; very concise and easy to understand. I'll take note of your explanation as well 

[Leezy]

I think できます in hiragana is okay, but I always write こんにちは as 今日は. It makes sense to write it using the kanji because it shortens the amount of boxes you would use in your genkoyoshi!

If you write　こんにちはas 今日は　wouldn't that get confused with きょうは（今日は）？

[keltingmeith]

If you write　こんにちはas 今日は　wouldn't that get confused with きょうは（今日は）？

Yep, and the words for "paper" and "god" are pronounced the same - but in any speaking exam, the examiners will know the difference based on the context you give. Similarly, in a written assessment, the context will tell the examiner (and any person you're writing letters to, because you learn languages for life~) which you meant.

[ChickenCh0wM1en]

Not sure if I'm allowed to post here but I'm a 3rd year uni student who took Jap 1 (learnt up to Te-form) in semester 1 of 1st year uni. I want to pick Japanese back up, does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks