English Advanced Question Thread

[jamonwindeyer]

My teacher's gone off on a bit of a tangent this week and it's left me confused as to how I should be structuring essays.

They've shown us this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liyFKUFCQno and advised us to structure essays with the following paragraph structure:

1: introduction/thesis/introduce texts
2: minor point in support of the thesis
3: possible point(s) against the thesis
4. explanation of why your thesis is correct
5: very short conclusion

Mentioning points that could oppose your thesis is contrary to everything I have ever learnt about HSC English. Every tutorial or sample essay I've seen has every single paragraph or point in support of the thesis. Obviously this is different for university essays but my understanding is the HSC is very formulaic. Is this some sort of advanced technique they're letting us in on? Has anyone ever had success with it on occasion or should I ignore it? I'm afraid an external market will see the consideration of opposing points and freak out particularly if I screw up paragraph 4 or it isn't clear what I'm doing.

Hey there! This structure goes against everything I've ever learned in HSC English as well, and certainly all the advice I ever give on essay writing (I say "argument is key" like a parrot). What I really don't like about this though is that it definitely isn't geared for English - There is no mention of techniques or linking back to your larger argument. It definitely doesn't seem HSC-ish.

I'm not saying not to do it, but it is definitely not the status quo. I personally would avoid the structure if you can - My personal view is that you need to be presenting strong arguments in English (+ any humanity), and presenting points against yourself (especially within such close proximity, not like an essay where you cover both sides in different paragraphs which can work really well) doesn't sound like it would be beneficial, to me at least

[michelleh]

Hello everyone!

I have a question about writing essays for Module B in particular. Since the rubric requests of students to provide their own personal views on their text, there have been a lot of debate on whether students, when providing their own opinion, should address their views by using first person or just strictly stick to third person usage. Some say not to use first person ever in any essay but others say it's okay to use only in Module B.

Any thoughts about this?

Thanks!

[jamonwindeyer]

Hi i'm currently writing an essay for the speeches topic of mod B on how memorable ideas have been portrayed through the use of rhetorical techniques and was wondering what the technique in : “It is the story teller… our phoenix, that represents us at our best, and at our most creative.” is? It's at the end of Doris Lessing's speech 'On not winning the Nobel Prize' is? . The full sentence is "It is the story teller, the dream maker, the myth maker, that is our phoeniz, that represents us at our best, and at our most creative". Thanks!

Hey! Welcome to the forums

I'd call that figurative language, in referring to something as something it isn't, and also accumulative listing there might be others too if anyone else can spot them!

[jamonwindeyer]

Hello everyone!

I have a question about writing essays for Module B in particular. Since the rubric requests of students to provide their own personal views on their text, there have been a lot of debate on whether students, when providing their own opinion, should address their views by using first person or just strictly stick to third person usage. Some say not to use first person ever in any essay but others say it's okay to use only in Module B.

Any thoughts about this?

Thanks!

Hey hey! We have this discussion a lot on the forums, and the advice I always give is not to use first person. You can communicate your personal viewpoints through the way you argue your points, you don't need to say "I believe" to accomplish that any other thoughts guys?

[Wales]

Hey hey! We have this discussion a lot on the forums, and the advice I always give is not to use first person. You can communicate your personal viewpoints through the way you argue your points, you don't need to say "I believe" to accomplish that any other thoughts guys?

I've never been told to use first person in an essay. Seems like the right advice.

You want to communicate your ideas through your evidence and what it means eg, the dark lighting suggests the dark intentions of X.

[_____]

Hey there! This structure goes against everything I've ever learned in HSC English as well, and certainly all the advice I ever give on essay writing (I say "argument is key" like a parrot). What I really don't like about this though is that it definitely isn't geared for English - There is no mention of techniques or linking back to your larger argument. It definitely doesn't seem HSC-ish.

I'm not saying not to do it, but it is definitely not the status quo. I personally would avoid the structure if you can - My personal view is that you need to be presenting strong arguments in English (+ any humanity), and presenting points against yourself (especially within such close proximity, not like an essay where you cover both sides in different paragraphs which can work really well) doesn't sound like it would be beneficial, to me at least

Cheers mate. At first I took the video with a truckload of salt - I know it's not designed for the HSC and that I'd need to spend heaps of time on techniques. But now the teacher's gone back to the concepts in it and I'm left scratching my head.

I'm doing MH as well - your reference to other humanities reminded me of some activity I did back in y11 where they reinforced taking a very one-sided viewpoint in your argument. Basically they told us to ignore any counterpoints.

I think I'll stay away from it. I managed to somehow scrape a 14/15 for the last essay assignment so I'll stick with that formula for the next one.

If there are any other experts on here who've had success with this method or even heard it mentioned before for HSC English please lmk 

[sudodds]

I'm doing MH as well - your reference to other humanities reminded me of some activity I did back in y11 where they reinforced taking a very one-sided viewpoint in your argument. Basically they told us to ignore any counterpoints.

I think I'll stay away from it. I managed to somehow scrape a 14/15 for the last essay assignment so I'll stick with that formula for the next one.

For modern you want to be very firmly on one side - however you can still present alternatives! You just have to demonstrate and justify why you believe that alternative is rubbish (this actually strengthens your argument).

(Sorry for the modern tangent - back to english )

[_____]

For modern you want to be very firmly on one side - however you can still present alternatives! You just have to demonstrate and justify why you believe that alternative is rubbish (this actually strengthens your argument).

(Sorry for the modern tangent - back to english )

Yeah I guess really when you're saying let's say "anti-war protests were a contributing factor in the US withdrawal from Vietnam" you're by extension saying that they're weren't not a factor and you could say "some historians believe the students' movements had little impact as Nixon continued bombing Cambodia in the early 1970s but we must consider..."

But I'd be uncomfortable spending more than a sentence or two doing that for any essay really. That video and my teacher are saying to spend an entire paragraph considering them before refuting them in the next. I'd 100% screw that up if I tried it in 40 mins.

</non English-specific discussion>

[sudodds]

Yeah I guess really when you're saying let's say "anti-war protests were a contributing factor in the US withdrawal from Vietnam" you're by extension saying that they're weren't not a factor and you could say "some historians believe the students' movements had little impact as Nixon continued bombing Cambodia in the early 1970s but we must consider..."

But I'd be uncomfortable spending more than a sentence or two doing that for any essay really. That video and my teacher are saying to spend an entire paragraph considering them before refuting them in the next. I'd 100% screw that up if I tried it in 40 mins.

</non English-specific discussion>

don't want to clog up english with too much unrelated so I'm gonna answer the more modern-y aspects of this question over on the modern history thread!! In terms of english though I 100% agree with jamon - that structure looks really weird if you ask me! A whole paragraph dedicated to the opposing view is a bit strange.

[Thebarman]

Hey hey! We have this discussion a lot on the forums, and the advice I always give is not to use first person. You can communicate your personal viewpoints through the way you argue your points, you don't need to say "I believe" to accomplish that any other thoughts guys?

To add to this, I found that one of the best ways of integrating your personal response was by saying something along the lines of, "... This can be interpreted by a modern audience as ..."
Like the others said though, don't use first person! It interrupts the flow of your essay and can really impact its sophistication. There are plenty of ways to add your personal response without using first person.

[jingyi.ren1999]

hi! was wondering if anyone has marked my essay on RIchard the Third?? haha I really need all the help I could get because I start trial in week 1

[Wales]

hi! was wondering if anyone has marked my essay on RIchard the Third?? haha I really need all the help I could get because I start trial in week 1

You require 15 posts to get an essay marked unfortunately   Rack em up and ask again ~

[bsdfjnlkasn]

Hey there!

Anyone studying T.S Eliot's poetry? I'm struggling with interpreting this stanza of his poetry from "The Love Song of J. Allfred Prufrock"
I understand there are a few intertextual references but I'm not sure what their purpose is and what the persona is really reflecting on. I understand that some level of ambiguity is important for the poem but I am sort of in a place where not much is making sense. Is he describing himself through the intertextuality or someone else?

No! I am not Prince Hamlet, nor was meant to be;
Am an attendant lord, one that will do
To swell a progress, start a scene or two,
Advise the prince; no doubt, an easy tool,
Deferential, glad to be of use,
Politic, cautious, and meticulous;
Full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse;
At times, indeed, almost ridiculous—
Almost, at times, the Fool.

Any help would be super appreciated!

[justwannawish]

Hey,

As I was looking for questions for module B, I ran into this one:
How has considering other interpretations of the prescribed speeches helped you develop your own appreciation of the textual integrity of the speeches?

And I was wondering how to structure your paragraphs around it? Is there like a recommended structure for this one, with one paragraph showing the more accepted view on speeches and the other paragraphs being about how different interpretations develop your insight of textual integrity?

Thank you so much!

[anotherworld2b]

Hi I was just wondering if anyone has studied Carl Sagan's Pale blue dot
We have to do a task on this text but I'm having trouble understanding it