ATAR/Scaling Questions

[dermite]

Assuming they also get the highest mark in the exam, yes it would! They get moderated to the highest mark, so if that is also their exam mark then the two would be identical

say if rank 1 gets an 85 in the exam and rank 15 gets 95 (lets say this is the highest mark of the cohort)
does this mean rank 1 gets the 95 mark?

[jamonwindeyer]

say if rank 1 gets an 85 in the exam and rank 15 gets 95 (lets say this is the highest mark of the cohort)
does this mean rank 1 gets the 95 mark?

Hi! Yes, that would be their moderated assessment mark. Then that would be averaged with their exam mark of 85 - Their HSC mark for the subject would be 90

[dermite]

Hi! Yes, that would be their moderated assessment mark. Then that would be averaged with their exam mark of 85 - Their HSC mark for the subject would be 90

I'm currently around the mid-high 70s for nearly all my subjects (expect IPT, where im in the 90s).
If i get a 90 in the HSC, does this mean my mark is an 80?

[jamonwindeyer]

I'm currently around the mid-high 70s for nearly all my subjects (expect IPT, where im in the 90s).
If i get a 90 in the HSC, does this mean my mark is an 80?

Not necessarily, those marks you have now are internal. If your cohort does well then you could be higher than that - It just totally depends on that final exam and how everyone goes

[akirabaigent]

Hi Jamon,
I just read the ATARnotes long article on how scaling works but I am still confused on what mark ends up getting scaled down due to your rank? For example, if I were coming 3rd in my internal rank for chemistry, yet got the top mark in the HSC chemistry exam, would that be taken away and would I be given the third highest mark? However, from article I thought it said that the overall internal mark for chemistry was the one that got rearranged, yet wouldn't it already be in place because this is what the ranks are based on?
Also, in terms of your cohort bringing up or down your marks, what mark is this for? Is it for your overall atar?
Thank you.

[jamonwindeyer]

Hi Jamon,
I just read the ATARnotes long article on how scaling works but I am still confused on what mark ends up getting scaled down due to your rank? For example, if I were coming 3rd in my internal rank for chemistry, yet got the top mark in the HSC chemistry exam, would that be taken away and would I be given the third highest mark? However, from article I thought it said that the overall internal mark for chemistry was the one that got rearranged, yet wouldn't it already be in place because this is what the ranks are based on?
Also, in terms of your cohort bringing up or down your marks, what mark is this for? Is it for your overall atar?
Thank you.

Hello!

The mark affected by rank is your internal mark. In the scenario you propose, your exam mark would be yours (the highest). Your moderated internal mark would be (it is more complicated than this but let's keep it simple) close to the 3rd highest exam mark on the day. The average of those two scores (exam and moderated) is your HSC mark for the course.

The internal mark itself (from assessments) is useless, it is only the ranks and how far apart/close they are that makes a difference

The cohort of the subject affects the scaling of the course, this is UAC's playing field and happens right at the end. Your school's cohort only affects the internal moderated marks, as above. Your ATAR is unaffected by your cohort, it is purely a rank telling you where you sit in the state at the end of the process

[LadyWhoAsksTooMuchQuestions]

ATAR/SCALING Q+A THREAD

To go straight to posts from 2018, click here.

What is this thread for?
If you have any questions about things like scaling, ranks, moderation or alignment - This is the place to ask! Why spend hours reading NESA documents when we can do it for you 👌

To ask a question or make a post, you will first need an ATAR Notes account. You probably already have one, but if you don't, it takes about four seconds to sign up - and completely free!

Sooooo I'm pretty sure I'm getting Band 1 for Cafs, not even. The trial exam was soooooo difficult I felt so down about my performance. The questions were so hard that I don't even remember looking at them in class. Not to mention English Standard! For the two essays which are worth 5%, I COMPLETELY switched the related texts. For the Owen, I analysed 4 poems.

I do not know what to do. Only exam I found easy was senior science. Watch me fail in the HSC.

[jamonwindeyer]

Sooooo I'm pretty sure I'm getting Band 1 for Cafs, not even. The trial exam was soooooo difficult I felt so down about my performance. The questions were so hard that I don't even remember looking at them in class. Not to mention English Standard! For the two essays which are worth 5%, I COMPLETELY switched the related texts. For the Owen, I analysed 4 poems.

I do not know what to do. Only exam I found easy was senior science. Watch me fail in the HSC.

You'll be okay! The Trials are almost always harder than the actual HSC for almost everyone who does them. As long as you learn from what went wrong and actively work to address the issues, you'll get a strong HSC result, which is the most important thing

[akirabaigent]

Hello!

The mark affected by rank is your internal mark. In the scenario you propose, your exam mark would be yours (the highest). Your moderated internal mark would be (it is more complicated than this but let's keep it simple) close to the 3rd highest exam mark on the day. The average of those two scores (exam and moderated) is your HSC mark for the course.

The internal mark itself (from assessments) is useless, it is only the ranks and how far apart/close they are that makes a difference

The cohort of the subject affects the scaling of the course, this is UAC's playing field and happens right at the end. Your school's cohort only affects the internal moderated marks, as above. Your ATAR is unaffected by your cohort, it is purely a rank telling you where you sit in the state at the end of the process

I see! Thank you so much it makes sense now

[ilovemycat]

hey all,,

 just wondering, are state ranks decided upon based solely on exam mark (as in hsc performance only, no internals) or the final hsc mark (as in hsc performance + internals avergage, after moderation)

meaning, if your rank is not the best internally, but you manage to smash the hsc hypothetically could you get a state rank? i imagine at least a hundred people probably get the same highest raw mark in the hsc exam though? hmmm.

 just asking out of curiosity.

thank youuu )

[jamonwindeyer]

hey all,,

 just wondering, are state ranks decided upon based solely on exam mark (as in hsc performance only, no internals) or the final hsc mark (as in hsc performance + internals avergage, after moderation)

meaning, if your rank is not the best internally, but you manage to smash the hsc hypothetically could you get a state rank? i imagine at least a hundred people probably get the same highest raw mark in the hsc exam though? hmmm.

 just asking out of curiosity.

thank youuu )

Hey there! It is in fact the HSC mark for a given course. Yes, there are lots of ties as to how those are resolved, this is taken from NESA's website:

If students are equal on the highest HSC marks in a course, then the following process is used to determine the recipient(s):

1. take an average of each student's exam mark and assessment mark after alignment to performance bands, each to one decimal place

2. take an average of each student's exam mark and assessment mark before alignment to performance bands, each to two decimal places

3. if an extension course, use the marks awarded for other courses in the subject area.

It is absolutely possible to state rank without being first in a subject. I came 2nd in Legal Studies at my school, but I state ranked while 1st place did not - The exam is what everything is based off of so it is important to do well there

[ilovemycat]

thank you heaps jamon!

[envisagator]

Hi Jamon, just a quick question, I'm currently 4th in physics, is it possible for me to get >90 in physics (HSC mark) and potentially >95 if neither 2nd and 3rd gets a band 6 but first does??. The difference between 4th and third is like 2 marks

[jamonwindeyer]

Hi Jamon, just a quick question, I'm currently 4th in physics, is it possible for me to get >90 in physics (HSC mark) and potentially >95 if neither 2nd and 3rd gets a band 6 but first does??. The difference between 4th and third is like 2 marks

Definitely possible! If you got a super high HSC Exam mark, say (going to the extreme), 98, then your internal mark could be moderated 82 and you'd still get a Band 6. Something like that could lead to you getting a Band 6 even if 2nd and 3rd don't.

If you do really well in the HSC exam, absolutely possible

[mxrylyn]

If I'm the only person in a class, does that mean that my HSC raw mark will be just the average of my internal score and my score in the HSC?