Where the 99.95ers came from

[Joseph41]

According to The Age, 34 of the 36 students who achieved a 99.95 this year came from (two currently unconfirmed):

Scotch College: 6
Melbourne Grammar School: 5
Haileybury College: 3
Melbourne Girls Grammar: 3
Mac.Robertson Girls School: 2
Melbourne High School: 2
Caulfield Grammar School: 2
Camberwell Grammar School: 2
Balwyn High School: 1
Princes Hill Secondary College: 1
Viewbank College: 1
Glen Waverley Secondary College: 1
St Bede's College: 1
Penleigh and Essendon Grammar School: 1
Xavier College: 1
St Kevin's College: 1
Ballarat Grammar: 1

Roughly one-third came from across two schools. What are your thoughts on this? Reflective of broader performance? A non-issue?

[Aaron]

Fantastic to see some government schools in this list. I have lived near Viewbank College for a long period of time and they have turned into a fantastic local school. Unfortunately though..... this to me says socioeconomic status plays a massive factor in educational outcomes, which is sad and won't change while governments butt heads over funding.

[Orb]

Would also say that number of 99.95 students isn't the best indicator of broader performance, the metrics I would love to look at (which aren't actually available/hard to measure) is how much students actually 'improved' through attending education at that specific school. Personally I wouldn't deem taking the #1 student in the state from when they were 12 and having them result in a 99.95 necessarily school success. For example, when we look at someone like Jerry Mao (the Caulfield student who got a 50 in Specialist in Year , he would probably get those kind of scores at any school that he attended (and thus the value-add of Caulfield specifically over other schools is pretty marginal).

On another note definitely also speaks to the correlation between socioeconomic status and ATARs, definitely something that we can work on.

[PhoenixxFire]

I really hate how skewed results always are towards private schools - It's ridiculous seeing all these private schools with median ATARs over 90 when at a place like my school (which is admittedly not the best comparison) it's very unusual for more than 2 or 3 people to get 90+

It's pretty ridiculous how few of the students who get 99.95 come from non-selective public schools, and even when they do it always seems to be from the same few schools. Hard to tell how much of it is due to students going to schools with a good reputation, how much is due to the school itself, and how much is due to socio-economic factors.

[S_R_K]

Would also say that number of 99.95 students isn't the best indicator of broader performance, the metrics I would love to look at (which aren't actually available/hard to measure) is how much students actually 'improved' through attending education at that specific school.

Schools get data on how students performed on each subject compared to their predicted scores (which are determined from the GAT). This might be the best available metric (given the data that VCAA gathers) for how well schools are value-adding to their students, but it's not a statistic that is going to catch on in the wider public discussion about VCE results.

[justwalkingby]

It's pretty much a self-perpetuating cycle. The schools which get 99.95ers can get publicity from that, attracting the bright students to go there who go on to get 99.95s. To be honest I think most of these kids would have been offered scholarships anyway, so whilst socio-economic factors will inevitably play a role in the education system, it's probably not a main determinant when it comes to the 99.95s.

[Bri MT]

It's pretty much a self-perpetuating cycle. The schools which get 99.95ers can get publicity from that, attracting the bright students to go there who go on to get 99.95s. To be honest I think most of these kids would have been offered scholarships anyway, so whilst socio-economic factors will inevitably play a role in the education system, it's probably not a main determinant when it comes to the 99.95s.

I respectfully disagree. I'm confident that being able to access schools like that comes down to much more than just being "bright"

[justwalkingby]

I respectfully disagree. I'm confident that being able to access schools like that comes down to much more than just being "bright"

Like I said, socio-economic factors do come into play. But most of those kids that got 99.95s are probably on scholarships anyway. The whole point of scholarships at private schools are pretty much to attract bright students so they can get access to private schools and so that they can raise the school's reputation.

[aspiringantelope]

Like I said, socio-economic factors do come into play. But most of those kids that got 99.95s are probably on scholarships anyway. The whole point of scholarships at private schools are pretty much to attract bright students so they can get access to private schools and so that they can raise the school's reputation.

Kind of agree to this but I think that the "bright students" are attracted to a school with a great environment and with amazing teaching (which is evident in the end of year exams) for them to pursue their education in, in which a high-scoring school would attract to them.

[PhoenixxFire]

Kind of agree to this but I think that the "bright students" are attracted to a school with a great environment and with amazing teaching (which is evident in the end of year exams).

I'm getting a bit off topic here sorry, but I really don't think amazing teaching can be measured based on exam results - would you consider a teacher better if they got a class who didn't at all care at the start of the year to actually try and do well by the end of the year or if they were given a class of people who were always going to try and do well and they just facilitated it? Personally I would consider the former option to be a far better teacher.

[aspiringantelope]

I'm getting a bit off topic here sorry, but I really don't think amazing teaching can be measured based on exam results - would you consider a teacher better if they got a class who didn't at all care at the start of the year to actually try and do well by the end of the year or if they were given a class of people who were always going to try and do well and they just facilitated it? Personally I would consider the former option to be a far better teacher.

Well, it also depends on self-effort and how much one tries to strive high in VCE, in which the environment would definitely be a catalyst in.

[S_R_K]

The suggestion that it is the "bright students" that are being "attracted" to certain schools is hilarious. The parents / guardians are the ones being attracted, and the ones making the choice of where to send their child (and mostly for educationally irrelevant reasons).

[justwalkingby]

I'm getting a bit off topic here sorry, but I really don't think amazing teaching can be measured based on exam results - would you consider a teacher better if they got a class who didn't at all care at the start of the year to actually try and do well by the end of the year or if they were given a class of people who were always going to try and do well and they just facilitated it? Personally I would consider the former option to be a far better teacher.

Yeah, kind of agree. Have heard of a lot of stories from friends at selective schools who had teachers that literally didn't do anything all class, but the students ace the exams anyway, because it's a selective school. I guess when it comes to teachers, there's a mixed bag at most schools.

[aspiringantelope]

The suggestion that it is the "bright students" that are being "attracted" to certain schools is hilarious. The parents / guardians are the ones being attracted, and the ones making the choice of where to send their child (and mostly for educationally irrelevant reasons).

Biased? I'm actually attracted to my school for their high-performing results..

[S_R_K]

Biased? I'm actually attracted to my school for their high-performing results..

And what contribution to those results is made by factors within the school's control (ie. teaching, school organisation, etc.) and what contribution is due to the demographics of the cohort? And what evidence do you have of that?