History Extension Question Thread!

[sudodds]

Heyyy,
so two questions from a very anxious nerd,
1 - This is my focus question so far and I'm wondering if it sounds complex enough or if it is even a good question at all,
Evaluate the way in which ‘left’ and ‘right’ wing politics/ideologies play integral roles in historiographical conflict or ‘history wars’.
WITH SPECIFIC REFERENCE TO
Discuss with specific reference to the construction of the contemporary ANZAC legacy. (Current centenary, 2014 – 2018)

Hey! I like your question Its very historiographical, which is awesome - even your case study is based around a historiographical issue, rather than an event, which is fantastic, and I definitely believe that you will find a lot of complexity through your research that you will be able to incorporate into your argument. My only, slight criticism would be that structurally your question is a little bit messy. The core of it is great, it's just the wording. I'd avoid the slashes in particular. If I were you, i'd try to adapt it slightly, so that it means the same thing, but reads better

2 - How do you start? I've done my proposal and want to use these holidays to start my essay but I have no clue when or where to start actually creating it, I have so many resources and a thesis but what to put to paper is alluding me.

There isn't really one, perfect way to start writing your essay - it is very much dependant on who you are. Personally, I wouldn't recommend doing a block of research, and then attempting to write the whole thing. Yes, research is important, and you do want to at least do some research before you start writing your response, BUT it is important to remember that the history extension project is a PROCESS. What you write today, may be completely superfluous at a later date. I know for me, I completely changed my question 4 times - and that's okay! I found that some of my best ideas came while I was writing my major work, than during the research process. I'd be writing something, realise a completely new angle that I could take with a bit of information, then I'd adjust all my previous bits of writing to suit that, and do more research. Don't feel like what you write today has to be perfect, because you will have months to adapt and change it - just give it a go

I also definitely suggest having a plan - what are each of your paragraphs going to be about? Having that will definitely help Also make sure that you reference as you go!

Hi
I need some help with my history extension project in particular the research. My essay topic which is based off your previous thread: The impact of historical narrative and fiction on the interpretation of the past. Im essentially using Richard iii as a case study to highlight this concept. But what are impacts of historical narrative and fiction and where does my own judgement come into this.


Kind Regards

Awesome! Sounds like a cool project idea - so you're looking at Shakespeare's play Richard III i'm assuming? Hmmm in terms of your question, I can't really tell you where your own judgement needs to come into it, because it should be all throughout! That's the whole point of the major work, it's a piece of analytical writing, not descriptive. I'm hesitant to just outline the impacts of historical narrative and fiction for you, as this is your project after all, so I'll leave the big stuff up to you (of course I'm here to help if you need anything, but its always best to do a bit of your own research first, bring that to me, and then we, and anyone else on this thread, can go over that together). At a basic level however, there are many impacts of historical narrative and fiction on interpretations of the past, from distorting our understanding of historical figures/events/societies, while at the same time including more within the realm of history. I think an important thing for you to look into would be the concept of historical fiction in general, because there are some (eg. postmodernists) who would say that ALL history is fiction - so what is the distinction?

Hope this helps!

Susie

[owidjaja]

Hey guys!
So this is kinda a dumb question- so in class we're discussing about the conflict between public and academic history and how academic historians have a protocol to follow in contrast to popular history. But what are these 'protocols'?

[Spendoggydog]

Thanks for the reply,

Currently, after my research the impacts of historical narrative and fiction are:

- make history more appealing for specific audiences, essentially to mould history to its audience? Shakespeare's play shows this. But would this not go against Rankes view of history being isolated. By making history more acceptable it distorts history to a specific time tells more about the views and morals of the audiences society. Idk if this is correct and all, these are just ideas that came up.
So just to verify when. I write the essay im going to have a body paragraph talking about this impact and then relate Richard III's play. As an example??

- I tried finding sources about the concept of history being fiction. I couldn't find any sources. Where did you guys get you sources from.

Thanks again

[katie,rinos]

Thanks for the reply,

Currently, after my research the impacts of historical narrative and fiction are:

- make history more appealing for specific audiences, essentially to mould history to its audience? Shakespeare's play shows this. But would this not go against Rankes view of history being isolated. By making history more acceptable it distorts history to a specific time tells more about the views and morals of the audiences society. Idk if this is correct and all, these are just ideas that came up.
So just to verify when. I write the essay im going to have a body paragraph talking about this impact and then relate Richard III's play. As an example??

Yeah, that sounds right! It is going against Von Ranke’s views as he aimed to study the past in its own terms (with no present-mindedness) and believed that the historians needed to stick to the facts.

(Also to maybe think about), And then, by distorting history how do we know what is and isn’t facts? How do we know if our widely held beliefs about history are actually true?

Your structure sounds good, maybe by using the play as a case study throughout your essay. Just make sure to critically analysis the historiography throughout the essay. Even just by pulling apart and criticizing some of what you are looking at.

- I tried finding sources about the concept of history being fiction. I couldn't find any sources. Where did you guys get you sources from.

Thanks again

I would possibly look into postmodernism and some of the postmodernist historians. You probably haven’t looked at them in class yet back basically they believe that you can never be fully objective and therefore all history is fiction and each perspective is equally valid. Simon Schama was a postmodernist who combined stories with his writing of history as he believed history was a version of storytelling. (The other postmodernist historians I studied were Foucault, Jenkins and White).

In terms of research and looking for information, the internet/youtube may be a good starting point as I found a few good website/documentaries on my topic. Apart from that, libraries (especially uni libraries) were really good to find books and research for my topic.

Hope this helps! 

[sudodds]

Hey guys!
So this is kinda a dumb question- so in class we're discussing about the conflict between public and academic history and how academic historians have a protocol to follow in contrast to popular history. But what are these 'protocols'?

Not a dumb question! My take on that would be that academic standards are more rigorous, and they have more to answer for. A typical publishing house for a popular historian (I know this because my mum works in a publishing house that often publishes such historians) is overly concerned with the historical accuracy of the text, more so that it will sell. Therefore, artistic liberties are often looked over and allowed, or even encouraged! For example, many publishes believe that footnotes can distract readers, clog up pages, and just look overall uninviting for the casual buyer, thus less footnotes are preferable for a popular historical text - basically encouraging popular historians to be less rigorous about referencing - something that is SUPER important for academic historians.

Along with this, there are certain educational attainments one has to receive before they can be considered an academic historian - namely a PHD in history (fun fact, my brothers godfather is an academic historian - wrote his PHD thesis on the rise of fascism in a very tiny Italian town!). However, a popular historian is really just anyone who publishes a work of history - eg. Peter FitzSimons (who was a rugby player and journalist before writing his very popular history series).

Hope this helps!

Susie

[yum.z2]

I can't find any criticisms on Thucydides, like 3 positives, and 3 negatives to write about how approaches to his writings have changed etc.
anyone got links?

[katie,rinos]

I can't find any criticisms on Thucydides, like 3 positives, and 3 negatives to write about how approaches to his writings have changed etc.
anyone got links?

Hey,

So, for why have approaches to history changed over time, I had:
- Product of time, influenced by the age of the sophists.
- Used contemporary oral sources.
- Called the ‘Father of Scientific’ History due to strict standards of data gathering (attempted to cross-check sources and used contemporary oral sources).
- Treated the supernatural with superstition
- Made political/military history more prominent.
- Moved away from stories of Herotodus.
- Believed to have had a greater impact on history than Herodotus.

For criticisms I had:
- Willingness to reconstruct speeches he didn’t hear.
- We don’t know his method in testing his sources.
- Aimed to be objective however, showed bias towards certain leaders.

Hope this helps!

[tay.j]

I'm kinda stressing out, coz I'm part of the first years to do extension history at our school, so don't really have anyone to talk to!
I know I should be getting a lot of work done towards my project these holiday's, but haven't really determined a question yet. I started out with the idea of photographs and their 'subjectivity', almost playing with the idea that if there was a photo of the conditions in a trench, and a diary entry of the same trench, people would believe the photo more, because it captures reality and is not subjective. Kinda hard to explain.
I was looking for a case study and came across the battle of Iwo Jima, particularly the famouse photograph of the flag being raised, which is now said to be one of the most reproduced photos in history. However, this photo was 'staged', and was infact taken of the second flag raising as the most flag was considered too small. There's a bit more to it, but I'm really struggling to get started anywhere.

Sorry this is so confusing!

[sudodds]

I'm kinda stressing out, coz I'm part of the first years to do extension history at our school, so don't really have anyone to talk to!
I know I should be getting a lot of work done towards my project these holiday's, but haven't really determined a question yet. I started out with the idea of photographs and their 'subjectivity', almost playing with the idea that if there was a photo of the conditions in a trench, and a diary entry of the same trench, people would believe the photo more, because it captures reality and is not subjective. Kinda hard to explain.
I was looking for a case study and came across the battle of Iwo Jima, particularly the famouse photograph of the flag being raised, which is now said to be one of the most reproduced photos in history. However, this photo was 'staged', and was infact taken of the second flag raising as the most flag was considered too small. There's a bit more to it, but I'm really struggling to get started anywhere.

Sorry this is so confusing!

Hey don't stress! You've still got more than enough time to complete your project - I completely changed my topic in the middle of term 2, and still managed to complete the essay with enough time I definitely like the idea of photographs as a tool of historical enquiry - I think I understand what you mean as well, that photographs have an air of objectivity around them, moreso than text, given the fact that many would assume that the photograph is an uadulterated version of the event, rather than a re-telling of an event (despite the fact that there are many problems that arise with utilising photographs as evidence, namely that they are merely an tiny minute extract in time, and that they can also be the product of manipulation through staging and editing).  I also like the case study that you have chosen!

My only concern is that it may be a bit too specific - you might struggle to write an entire essay on the topic. I'm not saying that you can't, however I believe it would be quite difficult. I suggest broadening out your topic a bit - maybe this can be one paragraph, dealing with the broader issue of unconventional evidence, looking at the way in which specific groups of historians utilise various forms of evidence (or suggest these forms are more valuable than others, eg. official documents).

If you want to look at photographs specifically, rather that writing the whole thing on how some people believe photographs are more accurate, maybe look at it more broadly and assess the legitimacy or validity of photographs as sources? If you look at it more broadly, you can look at a heap of other historiographical issues as well, such as the colorisation of photographs, the fact that they are a relatively new form of technology, etc. etc.

Hope this helps! Remember that you don't have to follow my advice by the way - at the end of the day this is your project, you have done the research, and you know what is best more than I do. These are just some suggestions to help you get started (borne out of my limited knowledge on your topic).

Good luck!

Susie

[CBakes]

Thanks for both answers!
Did you have any strict structural layouts, like this point of analysis for this many words?
Also, when do you think a first draft should be done by??

[evelonia]

Hi! This is my first post on here so I don't know if I'm doing it the right way, but I was wondering if I could get some help with my Major. I wanted to base the essay around the Rape of Nanking, and this is my proposed question: Discuss the different Japanese schools of thought on the Nanking Massacre and their respective perspectives/views on the estimated death toll, explaining the reason for the existing discrepancies.

Do you think it's too long or limiting? I feel like this question might restrict me and that maybe I should reword it so that it is a bit more broad. In my major, I wanted to discuss what the different Japanese perspectives are on the Nanking Massacre, and also how they oppose each other (the different death tolls and definitions of "massacre" etc) and why they oppose each other (varying motivations etc). Also, should I change the question to also include the Chinese perspective instead of focusing just on the Japanese? Honestly, any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

[theyam]

"Hi! This is my first post on here so I don't know if I'm doing it the right way, but I was wondering if I could get some help with my Major. I wanted to base the essay around the Rape of Nanking, and this is my proposed question: Discuss the different Japanese schools of thought on the Nanking Massacre and their respective perspectives/views on the estimated death toll, explaining the reason for the existing discrepancies.

Do you think it's too long or limiting? I feel like this question might restrict me and that maybe I should reword it so that it is a bit more broad. In my major, I wanted to discuss what the different Japanese perspectives are on the Nanking Massacre, and also how they oppose each other (the different death tolls and definitions of "massacre" etc) and why they oppose each other (varying motivations etc). Also, should I change the question to also include the Chinese perspective instead of focusing just on the Japanese? Honestly, any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!"

Hi!!

If this helps, my friend is doing this topic as well. She's exploring the different perspectives of this event too, but she's analysing a book and from there, then she's going to branch out into different reasonings for the different perspective (such as context etc) You might want to wait for Susie to reply in relation to your focus question, but from what my teachers have told me, the more specific, the better. "It prevents rambling on and its easier to stay on track" --> what my teacher said.
Hope this helps a bit~

theyam

[katie,rinos]

Thanks for both answers!
Did you have any strict structural layouts, like this point of analysis for this many words?
Also, when do you think a first draft should be done by??

Hey,
I didn't have any strict structural layout for my essay. I actually went 500 words over a couple of days before it was due because there was so much I wanted to put in! I basically just structured mine on the main arguments that affected my question (my question was on how context/methodology affected the interpretation of two Holocaust historians on perpetrator motivations).

I think the time of a first draft definitely depends on the person. I think Susie ended up doing one in these holidays, however I changed the focus of my question 3 times and did heaps of research so I ended up starting my draft around April . I was also doing more research as I was writing my essay as well so I would change/add things as I went along.I think trying to start it early would be great as you have a longer time to work on the essay as your first draft will probably be really different to what you end up handing in.

Hope this helps

[st.bakare]

Hi, i just started researching my topic for my major work and i'm getting ready to start working on my first draft but i'm very confused about how to structure my response. I'd really appreciate so tips and advice on how to do that

[sudodds]

Hi, i just started researching my topic for my major work and i'm getting ready to start working on my first draft but i'm very confused about how to structure my response. I'd really appreciate so tips and advice on how to do that

Hey!

Unfortunately/Fortunately (depending on how you look at it) there really is no "set" way to structure the major work. Not only is it individual to your school (as your teacher is marking you, not an external NESA examiner), but also to you and your own project. At my school, our synopsis could be our introduction, thus I didn't have an introduction included within my 2500 words (however I know other schools don't allow this). I'm assuming you mean paragraphs rather than chapters? I've never heard of a school allowing chapters or headings, however if that is something that your school expects then ignore me

My project was structured this way (does not mean it has to be a guide for your own, just to demonstrate the variety, considering mine was different to Katie's).

Synopsis/Intro - 300 words not included in the 2500 of the essay.
Two large paragraphs (indented so that it was still legible, I treated my essays as a paragraph per major idea or issue, as I only had two that I just explored in depth, that meant two large paragraphs)
Conclusion

The way you structure your essay will be individual to you and your project. If it takes 2/3/5/11 paragraphs to explain what you want then that's all good, as long as they are paragraphs of substance

All I will say though is that make sure that you structure your essay around historiography, not history. Make sure that each paragraph deals with historiographical concepts in depth, and is always answering your question.

Hope this helps,

Susie