ESL vs English

[Mao]

Technically i classify as ESL
Just wondering what kind of added benefits do i get for ESL? coz our ESL texts are different to our normal texts, and we dont have enough numbers for an ESL class, i dont want to lose valuable inputs from other really smart ppl who could help me with ideas and insights into texts...
is it worth it?

[sheepz]

personally i think its worth it just because less people doing ESL r good at english so its easier to get a higher score lol

[joechan521]

definately do esl in year 12 if u are eligible, it boost your enter

[Mao]

right, THANK YOU GUYS
i'll get onto that right away~~~

[Eriny]

How good are you at English though? Because it kind of corrupts the system when you have brilliant native-like English speakers doing ESL. That said, most people would probably choose ESL if they were eligible.

[melanie.dee]

yeh, if you're good at english anyway, and would be looking at 40+ for normal english, id just do that, because class discussion and getting ideas from other is so so valuable imo.

if you're not particularly good at english, then go for ESL.

[Mao]

I managed to squeez through the year with moderate work averaging a B+ to A in mainstream, but comes exam time i know that i'll just be blank and most of the stuff i write will drag on and on and will be bullcrap anyways
over 40? no way, which is why i changed to eng Language...
I had originally had 4 subjects this year, but miraculously i have a free when one of my best friend have english, so i picked it up, as it wouldnt hurt to have that extra reassuring chance that if i seriously stuff up language, i'll just get by with mainstream

and this is the result of desperately squeezing VCE to its limits, i'm right now confused as to what i really should do... english vs esl...
i'm fluent enough with english, and my teachers did say i'll do just fine for english, from my understanding ESL is nothing more than mainstream english with a little more time-allowance, easier marking, etc... originally i was talked out of doing it, but now come to thing about it, it's easier for me, even tho not so fair to the rest of the state, but still~

How good are you at English though? Because it kind of corrupts the system when you have brilliant native-like English speakers doing ESL. That said, most people would probably choose ESL if they were eligible.

valid, but i'd like to have all the advantage i can get sorry guys

yeh, if you're good at english anyway, and would be looking at 40+ for normal english, id just do that, because class discussion and getting ideas from other is so so valuable imo.

I wont get 40+ with ease, i'm not brilliant at it, but a lot better than the majority of my school...
"class discussion" will be valuable, but it's probably just "me, my friend and teacher discussion + silenced frozen others"...

=S but thanks guys for all ur input

[humph]

doing ESL is highly overrated, in my opinion. we had a guy do it at my school - he was from hong kong, moved to australia at the beginning of yr11. i think he was the only student at my school doing ESL... anyway. as a result he just covered the normal english content in the normal classes, did the same assessment (apart from SACs), etc etc. in a couple of text response essays he beat my friend, who ended up getting 48 for english. in the end, however, he only ended up get 40 for ESL, despite not having bombed out on the exam. it's not easy to get a very high score because many of the students taking ESL are still fluent at english (my friend wasn't really fluent but was extremely intelligent). however, the issues and analysis for ESL is harder to do well in than for english. my friend and i had a stab at one of their tasks and got it graded by our teacher and scraped 7/10. basically, it's a stupid assessment that doesn't really reflect the understanding of the student. so just be warned...

[sheepz]

it's not easy to get a very high score because many of the students taking ESL are still fluent at english (my friend wasn't really fluent but was extremely intelligent). however, the issues and analysis for ESL is harder to do well in than for english.

i dun think THAT many ppl r THAT fluent in esl... especially those international students who just arrived in year 11 or year 12 itself from overseas. (except malaysia lol) n i think wat u hav to do for esl n eng is very similar coz the study design changed? (sorry nick, i noe u explained to me wat esl ppl hav to do... but i dun exactly noe wat eng ppl do >.<)

[DrowNz]

Look... I've done both ESL (though I am fully eligible, I am not even an Australian citizen yet, been here for 2 years) an mainstream so i basically had my share of both levels and am able to draw a comparison. What I would suggest to anyone who's able to do both is do mainstream English until year 12 and then switch to ESL. The ESL Exam in 2007 was exactly the same as the mainstream English one besides the persuasive piece where mainstreams had to write a full piece and ESL's had to give 5 examples of persuasive languages from the same text. In addition we had to draw a stupid chart map. The big bonus is that it is more easy going especially with spelling and grammar (as long as your point is understandable and valid, you will not lose marks for spelling or anything like that) and it also scales up a tiny bit (up to 1 in 2007). So i say, why the fuck not!? If that will get you the extra few marks in year 12 by all means do it. The way I personally see it,  year 12 Is all about manipulating the system as to maximise your personal achievements.

[AppleXY]

it's not easy to get a very high score because many of the students taking ESL are still fluent at english (my friend wasn't really fluent but was extremely intelligent). however, the issues and analysis for ESL is harder to do well in than for english.

i dun think THAT many ppl r THAT fluent in esl... especially those international students who just arrived in year 11 or year 12 itself from overseas. (except malaysia lol) n i think wat u hav to do for esl n eng is very similar coz the study design changed? (sorry nick, i noe u explained to me wat esl ppl hav to do... but i dun exactly noe wat eng ppl do >.<)

I hope i'm not attacking you or anything, but, could you use proper english by any chance? Its really hard to understand the "noe", "ppl" and stuff. Thanks.

PS: I was like that in Year 10, but not anymore

[Mao]

thanks guys for all the input... but i'm still undecided...
from humphdogg's comment, it does make sense ESL having easier tasks makes the subject harder to get a good score at...
but on the other hand marking i hope is easier, and less fluent ppl will be doing the subject...
maybe i should just go along with mainstream and try my ass out at eng lang...

[monicak]

I'm in the same situation as you.. Just found out that I may be eligible for ESL, but I'm not sure whether I should do it.. Do ESL students read the same books as English students? Do you still go to the normal English classes and just do different assessments/exams? What happens with SACs?

[Mao]

I'm in the same situation as you.. Just found out that I may be eligible for ESL, but I'm not sure whether I should do it.. Do ESL students read the same books as English students? Do you still go to the normal English classes and just do different assessments/exams? What happens with SACs?

i'm trying to find out the same thing, the books might vary depending on your school, at mine the books are different, hence i lose the class input factor as we're not big enough to have a class of ESL

from what i hear ESL's SACs and Exam is slightly easier? however, that makes achieving high marks a tad higher, practically eliminating the benefit of going into an easier course

plus i heard from my teacher that ESL entry score into uni is 5 pts higher than mainstream (30 is the minimum or something?), which doesnt really affect me coz i'm hoping >40 (however impossible....), but~~~

I think i might stick with mainstream...

[sheepz]

haha sorry i will try to not use msn english >.<

Do ESL students read the same books as English students? Do you still go to the normal English classes and just do different assessments/exams? What happens with SACs?

The books you read depend on your school. I think most of the time some of it is the same and some of it is different. Whether or not there are ESL classes also depends on your school. Most schools have separate ESL classes.

from what i hear ESL's SACs and Exam is slightly easier? however, that makes achieving high marks a tad higher, practically eliminating the benefit of going into an easier course

plus i heard from my teacher that ESL entry score into uni is 5 pts higher than mainstream (30 is the minimum or something?), which doesnt really affect me coz i'm hoping >40 (however impossible....), but~~~

I think the ESL sacs and exams are easier. I don't get what you mean by your sentence after that though o.0 I don't think the ESL entry score to uni is higher... because the pre-requisites always says 25 in English(any) without singling out ESL to be higher. My ESL coordinator said there isn't anyway when she was telling me the benefits of doing ESL last year.