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April 27, 2024, 10:10:53 pm

Author Topic: Not sure what degree to take in university.  (Read 5339 times)  Share 

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Wharton

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Not sure what degree to take in university.
« on: April 07, 2015, 12:06:05 am »
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Hello AN,

I'll say it now. I want to be making 6 figures or close to that sometime in to my career, realistically mid-career.

I've spent the first of this the term 1 holiday thoroughly researching and evaluating what I truly want to do when I'm older but I'm sure this will change through the rest of high school and possibly in my undergraduate course. I've also done quite a bit of research on American universities which makes me truly realise how good Australia's undergraduate degrees are then I compared postgraduates..

Anyway, there's a couple routes that I could possibly take in my career. But right now, I definitely want to work in either engineering or finance/business.

Route 1(my plan since before these holidays): Monash's Bachelor of Engineering(Hons.) --> M.Eng? or Take GMAT straight after graduation and then try to find work for 3 years --> evaluate if I should do a postgraduate either Master of Eng. or possibly MBA overseas.

*Can someone confirm that I'm allowed to find work straight after my B.Eng degree? Should I work towards a Masters straight after? My main concern is that I don't want to be stuck at some shitty low-position job my whole life.

Route 2: Monash's Bachelor of Eng(Hons) + B.Com Double --> Work to a higher position without postgrad.

*What I'm concerned here about is that I might be wasting time with a degree and possibly still risking the chance that I get stuck in a shoddy job even with two degrees.

Route 3: UniMelb's B.Sci or B.Com --> M.Eng or a MBA or a different business related masters. (B.Sci can't complete a business masters though.)

*Obviously this route is probably the most direct, the reason why I'm considering is that for engineering I wouldn't have to do a honours like I would at Monash and this route buys me time to think about my masters but also forces me in to completing a masters.

I'm mainly focusing on my bachelors right now as my postgraduate will most likely change due to nature and also to the fact my brother who started uni this year and is trying for dentistry. I don't expect my life to end up exactly like above, I just want to have some sort of goal.

Cheers
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 12:09:48 am by Wharton »

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Re: Not sure what degree to take in university.
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2015, 01:27:53 am »
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A 4 year Bachelor of Engineering (honours) at Monash will make you a fully qualified engineer.
A 3 year Bachelor of Science + 2 year Master of Engineering at Melbourne will give you the same qualification, but take a year longer.
Some argue that the M.Eng at Melbourne looks better than the B.Eng (honours) at Monash, but others say that the difference is minute and not worth spending an extra year for.
There's no point going further than that unless you plan on going into Academia (like doing research at a university).

As for Commerce, you sound like you'd probably be interested in either Finance or Actuarial Studies.

I recommend you research all of these options though. They're all mathsy, but they are different: engineering involves a lot of physics and designing your own things. Finance has a moderate amount of maths in it, combined with a lot of general business principles. Actuarial Studies is very intensive maths, particularly the probability/statistics side of maths, rather than the physics side. They all pay well and all have good employment prospects; it's just a matter of what you would rather do.
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Rohmer

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Re: Not sure what degree to take in university.
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2015, 01:49:13 am »
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I wouldn't worry too much about the whole post-grad masters thing right now. In many fields you generally don't do a masters level qual straight after your undergrad unless you're going for academia. Instead you usually work for a few years, esp. for something like an MBA which is commonly used to build on your job experience and networking or switch fields.

No Eng background here, so I don't know much about the M/Eng at UniMelb v BEng at Monash debate, although I have a suspicion that the industry doesn't make much of a distinction (similar to the legal profession's views on 'JD v LLB'). Arguably one extra year is a downside, on the other hand some people don't mind being at uni a bit longer (after all, you'll probs be working FT for 4 or 5 decades once you finish).

Seeing as you're looking at eng/comm you're probably considering the more quantitative side of finance, but give that career path some thought as there are a range of job possibilities for the finance major (analyst, broker, adviser, working in a bank, hedge funds, the 'glamour' side of IB/M&A etc.).



zhenzhenzhen

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Re: Not sure what degree to take in university.
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2015, 11:56:53 am »
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Lol, shoddy and shitty low position jobs
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inish

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Re: Not sure what degree to take in university.
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2015, 12:21:18 pm »
+5
Engineering is not such a black and white field. There are many roles in the engineering sector and the biggest advice I can give you is to ask lots of questions of people in industry and find out which role you would like.

The field is made up largely of both technical and managerial work. There are many different kinds of technical work and many different kinds of managerial work. I'll create an example scenario to help paint the picture, I'll avoid technical terminology and it's all completely fictional to help you out.

An engineer at Boeing has learnt that due to climate change, there is an increase in the amount of acidic chemicals in the atmosphere meaning that the plane wings are starting to corrode. This in itself requires a huge team. It requires a team of materials engineers to find a profitable solution, chemical engineers to look at the chemical composition of the sky, structural engineers. 

John is tasked with, 'find a new paint to coat the plane wing that will stop corrosion.' Imran's job is to test the adhesiveness of the paint under high-velocity and whether there is a danger it will come unstuck. Tom's job is to interpret the data that John finds and work out whether it is affordable to the company. Desmond's job is to manage the team searching for a new paint.

John does technical work. He is an example of an engineering professional, he will need investigative methods and novel design to a problem that hasn't been seen before. This work is generally difficult. An example of his career might be that after graduation, he went directly into industry and has been solving technical problems all his life.

Imran is also doing technical work. Imran is also an engineering professional. Imran's career was different, he finished uni and went into industry. He realised that it was cost-ineffective to replace the material of whole wings and did a PhD in methods of advancing adhesiveness in high-velocity structures at uni. His knowledge is very rare and very applicable. most importantly, it is profitable to this firm. His work is highly paid.

Tom's job is an example of an engineering technician. Tom isn't as good as what he does as his two counterparts, so he gets smaller tasks. He graduated from uni and his skills, for whatever reason, weren't of the level to be performing highly complex tasks and so he takes slightly smaller tasks.

Desmond is the manager. This is not technical work. Desmond probably is paid more but he's charged with getting the most of his team. Desmond would delegate the tasks and it's an easy job when all runs smoothly. However, if Imran isn't able to do his job, he needs to bring someone in or get it done himself. Managerial work can be easy and it can be very hard.

These are all different roles and you need to think about where you want to end up and start asking people how you end up there. There are maybe 10-15 different general types of roles like this in an engineering firm. High-level managers, low-level managers, engineering professionals, engineering contractors, engineering technicians, technicians and loads more.

If money is purely your consideration.  Then just get really good at one of those roles, it honestly doesn't matter which one. You need to have a set of skills that can make a firm a lot of money, if you can do that, you will be heavily compensated. If you don't, then you won't be getting paid the big figures.

A technician can make as much as a manager. If you're the only plumber who knows how to fix bolted doors with Aluminium corrosion and a chemical plant needs that to stay operations, you're worth loads. If you're an excellent manager whose team consistently runs smoothly and is highly profitable, again, you'll make loads.

With respect to the Melbourne v Monash debate. Melbourne's masters degree is a masters degree. You learn a lot of advanced methods and the masters subjects are harder and more is expected of you than undegraduate studies. Does it help? That's for you to say really. If you're getting something out of it that you think will make you more profitable to a company, then it's a good idea. If you don't feel you have skills to gain from a masters, it won't help you.

Ignore the naming differences. BEng(Hons) and Masters of Eng are just marketing ploys. Melbourne's degree is an extra-year of education, masters level education.

Also, it should be noted, a BSc and a B.Eng is not the same thing. Scientific method and engineering method are not the same thing and only a layman would put them down as interchangeable. I think that if you do your BSc properly, that is, you choose units that are meaningful throughout, you will have both an appreciation for scientific inquisition as well as engineering principles. Obviously if you choose the easiest breadths throughout and do overly-easy elective units that you cram for you don't see this, though.

inish

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Re: Not sure what degree to take in university.
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2015, 12:22:24 pm »
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Hello AN,

*What I'm concerned here about is that I might be wasting time with a degree and possibly still risking the chance that I get stuck in a shoddy job even with two degrees.

Cheers

If you are good at what you do, this won't happen to you.

Marrogi12

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Re: Not sure what degree to take in university.
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2015, 01:21:47 pm »
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In my experience at uni , and specifically for engineering , you should choose the university that offers valuable skills like project management , technical skills  like using cad , and other modeling programs and importantly skills that will make you standout as an engineering candidate when you go looking for employment. As every engineering student will learn how to do a structure analysis, perform integrals on composites to find Area , but not every engineering student will learn how to deal with difficult coworkers , give meaningful presentations and present themselves as a professional.   

I Am currently doing Mechanical Engineering with honours/ Industrial design also with honours at RMIT , as i felt that Melbourne university just did not offer a good engineering package , as i have heard from friends in their 4th year doing engineering at melb that they lack skills such as using cad !. While at Rmit i have a class dedicated to group work with Engineering without borders (EWB) additionally i am already a member of Engineering Australia, have many future classes for CAD and solidworks

In regards to Monash , i would recommend that uni as an alternative to rmit if you live nearby the uni , as i heard they also offer a similar program to rmit , but personally it is too much of a travel for me , additionally i heard la trobes engineering course is good in the regards to that you get much more time one on one with the teacher  because of the relative small classes when compared to rmit or monash

At the end of the day whatever uni you choose , if you do well and love what you're doing, you'll surely get in the 6 figures.
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Wharton

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Re: Not sure what degree to take in university.
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2015, 01:50:15 pm »
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Engineering is not such a black and white field. There are many roles in the engineering sector and the biggest advice I can give you is to ask lots of questions of people in industry and find out which role you would like.

The field is made up largely of both technical and managerial work. There are many different kinds of technical work and many different kinds of managerial work. I'll create an example scenario to help paint the picture, I'll avoid technical terminology and it's all completely fictional to help you out.

An engineer at Boeing has learnt that due to climate change, there is an increase in the amount of acidic chemicals in the atmosphere meaning that the plane wings are starting to corrode. This in itself requires a huge team. It requires a team of materials engineers to find a profitable solution, chemical engineers to look at the chemical composition of the sky, structural engineers. 

John is tasked with, 'find a new paint to coat the plane wing that will stop corrosion.' Imran's job is to test the adhesiveness of the paint under high-velocity and whether there is a danger it will come unstuck. Tom's job is to interpret the data that John finds and work out whether it is affordable to the company. Desmond's job is to manage the team searching for a new paint.

John does technical work. He is an example of an engineering professional, he will need investigative methods and novel design to a problem that hasn't been seen before. This work is generally difficult. An example of his career might be that after graduation, he went directly into industry and has been solving technical problems all his life.

Imran is also doing technical work. Imran is also an engineering professional. Imran's career was different, he finished uni and went into industry. He realised that it was cost-ineffective to replace the material of whole wings and did a PhD in methods of advancing adhesiveness in high-velocity structures at uni. His knowledge is very rare and very applicable. most importantly, it is profitable to this firm. His work is highly paid.

Tom's job is an example of an engineering technician. Tom isn't as good as what he does as his two counterparts, so he gets smaller tasks. He graduated from uni and his skills, for whatever reason, weren't of the level to be performing highly complex tasks and so he takes slightly smaller tasks.

Desmond is the manager. This is not technical work. Desmond probably is paid more but he's charged with getting the most of his team. Desmond would delegate the tasks and it's an easy job when all runs smoothly. However, if Imran isn't able to do his job, he needs to bring someone in or get it done himself. Managerial work can be easy and it can be very hard.

These are all different roles and you need to think about where you want to end up and start asking people how you end up there. There are maybe 10-15 different general types of roles like this in an engineering firm. High-level managers, low-level managers, engineering professionals, engineering contractors, engineering technicians, technicians and loads more.

If money is purely your consideration.  Then just get really good at one of those roles, it honestly doesn't matter which one. You need to have a set of skills that can make a firm a lot of money, if you can do that, you will be heavily compensated. If you don't, then you won't be getting paid the big figures.

A technician can make as much as a manager. If you're the only plumber who knows how to fix bolted doors with Aluminium corrosion and a chemical plant needs that to stay operations, you're worth loads. If you're an excellent manager whose team consistently runs smoothly and is highly profitable, again, you'll make loads.

With respect to the Melbourne v Monash debate. Melbourne's masters degree is a masters degree. You learn a lot of advanced methods and the masters subjects are harder and more is expected of you than undegraduate studies. Does it help? That's for you to say really. If you're getting something out of it that you think will make you more profitable to a company, then it's a good idea. If you don't feel you have skills to gain from a masters, it won't help you.

Ignore the naming differences. BEng(Hons) and Masters of Eng are just marketing ploys. Melbourne's degree is an extra-year of education, masters level education.

Also, it should be noted, a BSc and a B.Eng is not the same thing. Scientific method and engineering method are not the same thing and only a layman would put them down as interchangeable. I think that if you do your BSc properly, that is, you choose units that are meaningful throughout, you will have both an appreciation for scientific inquisition as well as engineering principles. Obviously if you choose the easiest breadths throughout and do overly-easy elective units that you cram for you don't see this, though.
Thanks for the in-depth response. If I do choose to complete the Monash double would it be more likely for me to get an engineering job in management opposed to another individual who only has a engineering degree?

inish

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Re: Not sure what degree to take in university.
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2015, 03:52:35 pm »
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I don't think so. You will not walk straight into a management position and by the time you are eligible for a management role  your degree will be less relevant than primary school was to year 12 exams.

I'm not sure about how to go into engineering an management type role. If I were you, I would contact people in this position and ask them how they got there. Most people will reply to an e-mail from a student. They can give you far better advice than anyone on a forum.

Marrogi12, that's not fair. CAD work is fairly easy to pick-up for anyone who has a background in engineering. I know how to use a few CAD programs and I self-taught myself. It's a pretty natural piece of software for any engineering student to use and I don't see why it needs to be taught, if you need it, learn it.

Your degree is only your formal education. If you've never been good at communication in team-work, this doesn't magically get solved because BCom is on your resume. Find out what it takes to become a good manager and the path to get there and be it.

If I was in your shoes, I would choose a straight B.Eng at Monash. Personally, I think that Melbourne Uni also offers a fantastic education. The program is hard, there are a lot of talented individuals and it's a great choice as well. Either one is good for you.

Honestly, this is all a terrifically overrated topic. The biggest factor is how hard you're prepared to work, whether you love and get joy from what you study and your maturity to properly commit yourself to your studies. If you've got that on our side, Monash/RMIT/Melbourne will turn you into a fantastic graduate with a world of opportunities.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 03:59:06 pm by inish »

Marrogi12

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Re: Not sure what degree to take in university.
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 04:26:59 pm »
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I agree with Inish, with that it is the self motivation and persistence of the individual that will get you a great job , not necessarily the university the individual went to. However i believe that having a real world engineering situation simulated by the university , will definitely improve the individual's capabilities as it certainly has with me , however as said before it is up to the individual to pick these skills up , and they will not be magically placed upon you ahah. These skills are also looked very highly by employers as the faster you move from being a recent engineering graduate to a professional engineer the better !         
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anna.xo

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Re: Not sure what degree to take in university.
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2015, 06:09:17 pm »
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All I will say is that finance is where the big bucks are.
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EspoirTron

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Re: Not sure what degree to take in university.
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2015, 06:30:41 pm »
+1
I shall say this, dealing with 6 digit figures doesn't equate to seeing it in your account.
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Mieow

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Re: Not sure what degree to take in university.
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2015, 07:56:28 pm »
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Another option that might satisfy you is Melbourne Uni's (new) Masters of Engineering degrees which allows you to do your masters in engineering discipline along with business.

E.g. Masters of Engineering (Electrical with Business)

A whole list of all the available Masters of Engineering degrees can be found here:
http://www.eng.unimelb.edu.au/study/graduate/

With those degrees,  when it says its accreditation is "provisional until sufficient students graduate from the program" does that mean you're not actually accredited when you graduate or something?
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