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June 14, 2024, 10:44:24 am

Author Topic: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates  (Read 34713 times)  Share 

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alanyin1

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2018, 10:41:26 pm »
+10
I'm not sure how useful this will be, but here were my marks and such when I graduated from MHS in 2016 in Chemistry. I ordered the Statement of Marks, so these should all be 100% accurate. Keep in mind that MHS' cohorts are fairly strong, so most people in my year level would probably safely assume that their SAC marks be moderated upwards. Also, please keep in mind that many (if not all) of my comments, regardless of how I try to support them with my results and regardless of how objective I try to sound, are just suggestions and speculation. Anyways, the following numbers were provided in the attached photo.

A couple of things to note regarding the results:
-After talking with teachers during the year and after results came out, there was speculation that Unit 4 SACs were worth slightly more than Unit 3 SACs. Of course, this is only speculation.
- A+ Range for exam was 198 to 240 out of max. 240
- I assume that the term 'Moderated SAC Scores' is the same thing as 'FINAL' in the photo. I will similarly interpret SCHOOL as the same thing as 'raw marks'.

My SAC ranking was definitely not 1st place, as I did not win my school's internal subject prize, given to the student with highest SAC marks (and performance on our end of year practice exam used to differentiate between those who have the same total SAC marks), however my SAC ranking was definitely somewhere in the first 10 ranks out of ~130+.

Going off the previous discussion, does the 'moderated sac scores = exam scores arranged from highest to lowest, with nth exam score correlating to nth SAC ranking' statement still hold true? If it is true, how does it work for subjects which only have one exam (i.e. GA1 = U3 SACs, GA2 = U4 SACs)? Because as you can see, neither the SCHOOL or FINAL are the same for any of the numbers, which implies that they are separate results, not the same result 'copy-pasted' to GA1 and GA2.

Additionally, I personally felt that an exam score of 227/240, albeit safely within the A+ range, is pretty low to score a 50 in any subject. Although I have no way of comparing with my peers for their exact figures, as I was one of the few, if not the only person, who actually bought the Statement of Marks (which is $10+ as far as I can remember), I suspect that not many people, if at all, would have performed better on the exam in my cohort - I dropped just an average of 6.5 marks out of 120, turning into a 227/240 average marked by 2 examiners.

Anyways, converting my exam score into a percentage (94.583%), how then is it possible for me to receive a 94% and 98% SCHOOL/raw SAC mark ('unmoderated') for my SACs if I was not the first rank, let alone higher for the FINAL (presumably the 'moderated') results? A 98% would mean a 235.2/240 on the exam, which although possible, is extremely difficult - probably worthy of Premier's tbh. Moreover, even if this were true, how could I receive a FINAL/moderated SAC score of 100/100 for U4, if the presumption is that the 'highest exam score goes to the first rank's moderated SAC result'? What does the word 'moderated' mean in the context of this discussion and in VCAA's processes, because wouldn't our assumed definition imply that at least someone in my cohort got 240/240 (100%) on their exam, and, moreover, since I was not first place, that more than one individual received this result, so that I could receive moderated SAC scores of 100/100? Finally, if even this is true, I find it extremely hard to believe that someone who can get 240/240 on the exam does not have decent enough SAC marks to warrant a study score of 50, or at least a higher proportion of 49s, 48s, 47s etc, because the next highest SS was a 48, maybe another, then 47, then decreasing. Probably, what this suggests, if the previous discussion is ALL true, is that a relative exam result percentage is provided, and not the physical number (so you getting 95% on the exam does not mean that someone else will get the 'same 95%' as their moderated SAC score). What I am suggesting is that the whole cohort's performance in the exam compared to the SACs will have a greater influence on the SCHOOL --> FINAL change rather than individuals outright taking others' results. For example, if your cohort, on average, does 'as well as expected' as suggested by SAC results, then your cohort will get good scaling. If, however, your whole cohort gets like average A+ on SACs but then on average B on the exam, then everyone, on average, will be dragged down. How this affects certain individuals is not clear from this hypothesis.

Funnily enough, despite only this subject getting a 50 for me, three of my other subjects (Methods, English and Spesh all had FINAL SAC scores of 100/100, which only further complicates the problem - and yes, I purchased Statement of Marks for all my subjects lol).

Since VCAA will never release their processes, we can only assume what really goes on. In my opinion, I don't think that moderation has as much of an effect as the prior discussion suggested, even though all the information that was told to me when I was in Year 12 has remained exactly the same (at least for my results). Certainly, there is no way for me to justify this opinion, due to the effect of MHS' strong cohort and my relatively high rank inevitably moderating my results upwards. However, my opinion is that the degree of moderation to SACs really only affects the SCHOOL --> FINAL mark difference. For example, NOT being a higher rank MAY HAVE meant that my Unit 3 SACs only scaled from 94/100 to 99/100, not 100/100 (or is this +5 score change fixed for everyone in the cohort, with 100 being the cap? How can we verify the validity of this?). Additionally, the cohort's performance on the exam relative to their SAC marks IS what probably determined the 94->99 change. My views are obviously subjective to my own experiences, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

But my personal opinion is that as long as your SAC ranking is decent (the location 'decent' depends on what Study Score you are aiming towards), and you perform really well on the exam (low - mid A+), then you will be more or less guaranteed the result that you are aiming towards, regardless of your school's performance on the exam as a whole (which, under the prior discussion, would drag your SAC marks downwards). E.g. if you get rank ~5 out of like 100 and a 90% on the exam, you should be expected to get around 45, and at least a low 40, if you get rekt by adverse scaling depending on your cohort's performance.

Finally, the most important aspect of this whole process, and, really, the whole of Year 12, is to just enjoy it all and to do as best you can. Obviously, all this scaling stuff is a concern, but it shouldn't be a concern until like just after your exam. Besides, it's only just the start of May right now, so there is still loads of time. If you do poorly on a SAC, then improve in time for the next one! Ask your teachers for feedback and identify weaknesses and strengths, not just in the subject, but in your studying methods. Practice makes perfect, as cliched as it is. If you focus on doing well and have a growth mindset, then you will naturally reap what you sow. The ideal goal, really, is to be happy with your subject score/ATAR and not ponder about what-ifs (can't really say this with a straight face as I was desperate for +0.11 aggregate but we'll overlook this for now haha).
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 12:13:32 am by alanyin1 »
2016 ATAR: 99.85, Melbourne High School
2017-2019: Bachelor of Biomedicine (Bio-Engineering Systems Major) at The University of Melbourne
2020-2023: Doctor of Medicine at The University of Melbourne

Feel free to PM me regarding VCE and GAMSAT/MMI help :)


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Joseph41

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2018, 02:44:18 pm »
+5
Bumping for benefit of those in the Class of 2019 and beyond. :)

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aspiringantelope

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2018, 10:59:11 am »
0
Soo what correlation does the Exam score have to do with the Moderated SAC Score?
Why is the Exam Score used to determine moderated sac score according to ranking?

Lear

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2018, 11:12:45 am »
+2
Because internal sac scores vary in difficulty, strictness and content. If we just used internal scores students who received easier assessments would be greatly advantaged. The external exam and the GAT are the ONLY assessments that are standardised across the state and hence are used for moderating internal sacs. It just makes it fair.
2018: ATAR: 99.35
Subjects
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Methods: 43
Further Maths: 50
Chemistry: 46
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aspiringantelope

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2018, 11:45:32 am »
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Because internal sac scores vary in difficulty, strictness and content. If we just used internal scores students who received easier assessments would be greatly advantaged. The external exam and the GAT are the ONLY assessments that are standardised across the state and hence are used for moderating internal sacs. It just makes it fair.
Oh I see, so schools have different SAC difficulty ? or are they all the same?

Lear

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2018, 11:55:08 am »
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Different.
2018: ATAR: 99.35
Subjects
English: 44
Methods: 43
Further Maths: 50
Chemistry: 46
Legal: 40
2019: Bachelor of Medical Science and Doctor of Medicine @ Monash

aspiringantelope

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2018, 12:04:53 pm »
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Different.
Ugh I thought VCAA distributes same SAC LOL

Sine

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2018, 12:09:57 pm »
0
Ugh I thought VCAA distributes same SAC LOL
VCAA don't play a part in what questions your teachers will choose for SACs. They will have some general advice on what to do with weak/strong cohorts but the overall difficulty/questions is up to your school to decide.

aspiringantelope

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2018, 01:35:01 pm »
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VCAA don't play a part in what questions your teachers will choose for SACs. They will have some general advice on what to do with weak/strong cohorts but the overall difficulty/questions is up to your school to decide.
I see.
Thanks!!

Highway_end

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2019, 07:36:38 am »
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Hi, I was just wondering if the normal distribution of study scores was for raw or scaled scores?

Bri MT

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2019, 08:39:52 am »
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Hi, I was just wondering if the normal distribution of study scores was for raw or scaled scores?

Raw

naun81

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2021, 04:29:50 pm »
+1
Hi, after reading this topic I understand a bit better how it all works, thanks!
But can anyone advise on the school choice?
I will be in year 9 next year, so school choice is kind of important. The problem is that there is no very good public school in my area and parents are unlikely to pay top private school fee. So my choice would be between average public and average private school.
If I understood correctly, in a weak cohort it will be easy to get high rank and keep your good exam mark to yourself, which is good.
However, if average cohort results are bad this will negatively affect my score.
Does it all even out in the end?
Do you know anyone who got high ATAR (>99) while attending average public school?

Joseph41

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2021, 04:34:26 pm »
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If I understood correctly, in a weak cohort it will be easy to get high rank and keep your good exam mark to yourself, which is good.
However, if average cohort results are bad this will negatively affect my score.

I think this is a pretty fair conclusion speaking in general terms, yep, but every situation is different. Others might have more to say or different opinions.

Quote
Does it all even out in the end?
Do you know anyone who got high ATAR (>99) while attending average public school?

I went to a public school that was pretty much bang on average overall (a touch above average in terms of median study score) and managed a 99.65.

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Sine

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2021, 04:37:47 pm »
+3
Hi, after reading this topic I understand a bit better how it all works, thanks!
But can anyone advise on the school choice?
I will be in year 9 next year, so school choice is kind of important. The problem is that there is no very good public school in my area and parents are unlikely to pay top private school fee. So my choice would be between average public and average private school.
If I understood correctly, in a weak cohort it will be easy to get high rank and keep your good exam mark to yourself, which is good.
However, if average cohort results are bad this will negatively affect my score.
Does it all even out in the end?
Do you know anyone who got high ATAR (>99) while attending average public school?
If you are in a weak cohort it is important to rank 1 (or rank very highly) if you don't it can decrease the types of scores that you get. If you are rank 1 in a bad cohort your cohort results don't matter that much as long as you do very well on the exam.

There are definitely people who get high ATARs from average public schools (see above). Whilst selective/some private schools generally get more high ATARs this is more to do with those schools having more students being of high SES rather than the actual school being better/worse.

Joseph41

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Re: VCE Behind the Scenes: Moderation, Rankings, Scaling, Aggregates
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2021, 04:40:21 pm »
0
If you are in a weak cohort it is important to rank 1 (or rank very highly) if you don't it can decrease the types of scores that you get. If you are rank 1 in a bad cohort your cohort results don't matter that much as long as you do very well on the exam.

There are definitely people who get high ATARs from average public schools (see above). Whilst selective/some private schools generally get more high ATARs this is more to do with those schools having more students being of high SES rather than the actual school being better/worse.

This is a better response than mine. Good post. 👍

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