Failing students could lose their right to HECS

[keltingmeith]

Under new legislation, students who fail more than half their subjects in their first year will have their access to HECS taken off them, meaning that if they want to continue their tertiary studies, they will have to do so out of their own pocket. Universities can provide exemptions in exceptional circumstances, but the Government estimates about 2,500 students will be affected by this change each year.


So, I'm not a fan of this. I think it's disgustingly elitist and out-of-touch, and will only further strengthen the education divide between the poor and the rich. IN PARTICULAR, it is suggested that all someone needs to do is have one bad year - have one year where they get shit marks - and then they'll essentially be barred from all tertiary education for the rest of their life.

This is a big change - and I'm curious what everyone else here thinks about it.

[homeworkisapotato]

I think it's really harsh, but I also think that it will push students to try hard in their classes, rather than take the amazing opportunities that we are given as a country for granted. I also believe they should be lenient for more rigorous subjects. It's harder to pass like a pure mathematics course or med than it is certain other courses.

[scientificllama]

I agree this is incredibly harsh and quite elitist from the government.
Not all students have access or time to study or even the basic necessities to study, especially online.
It's way too out of touch. However,  universities should be lenient towards those who have circumstance resulting in poor grades within their first year of uni

[PhoenixxFire]

Very much hate this idea. I failed 2/4 subjects in my first year (4/6 if we count the ones I got late withdrawal from). There is the ability to get fails not counted if you're failing due to reasons out of your control but this very much relies on having supporting evidence which isn't always available - especially for people who have mental illnesses where there's such a stigma with asking for help. I was able to withdraw from my classes this year because I had medical certificates from being in hospital but i have no evidence that it was my mental health that resulted in me failing last year and I'd imagine that there are many other students in the same situation. Seems like just another stressor that's going to be put on students who are already struggling.

[S_R_K]

This could result in significant lowering of academic standards. Universities are already under financial pressure to lower attrition rates. If universities now have the threat of a student being forever denied the ability to enrol at that institution, if that student were to fail too many subjects, that is one fewer student from which the university gains income. So there's an (additional) incentive for the university to pressure academics to lower standards so that students do not fail subjects.

The point about encouraging students to make prudent choices about tertiary education is good, but it makes some very poor assumptions about how students make decisions about which course they enrol in. The main problem is that students are severely lacking in information about how they will perform at university. They don't know how difficult the course material will be; the workload/difficulty of high school is a very imperfect guide to the workload/difficulty of university, given the vastly different learning environments and instructional styles. Students are also under personal, social and economic pressure to "aim high", and many are encouraged (or encourage themselves) to pursue pathways that are unwise. Punishing these students without addressing the source of that pressure is unfair, but also likely to be ineffective.

[keltingmeith]

I think it's really harsh, but I also think that it will push students to try hard in their classes, rather than take the amazing opportunities that we are given as a country for granted. I also believe they should be lenient for more rigorous subjects. It's harder to pass like a pure mathematics course or med than it is certain other courses.

But this makes the assumption that students don't already feel the need to try hard - most are made painfully aware that any class they fail is $1000+ that they'll need to pay back to the Government at some stage. I don't think there's that many taking the opportunities for granted, that would behave differently knowing they might lost HECS. Most of the people I've spoken to have had some reason that meant they couldn't do well - the problem is that not all of these are problems easily proven (see PhoenixxFire's example, and they're 100% not alone there - speaking from experience), and some of these problems were even as mundane as, "I was not ready for the jump in effort I had to put in for uni", or even, "I didn't realise I'd have to be so self-directed for university" - hell, I nearly failed a subject once because no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get the information to stick in my head, mostly because the subject had a bunch of assumed knowledge that wasn't in the pre-requisite subjects. However, the university's stance there likely wouldn't protect me there either, because the pre-requisite subject was "one of BIO1022 or second year chemistry" - to which the university would state that I should've expected presumed BIO1022 knowledge that I didn't have.

I also really hate the idea that it's harder to pass maths or med or engineering or [insert other STEM subject here] over "certain other courses". I'm not going to put words into your mouth as to what those other courses might be (but I'll happily argue with you if you do say what those are. Also should point out you didn't mention engineering or other STEM subjects, that one's something that the masses like to latch onto), but I will say that maths are the subjects I got the most marks in. And it had nothing to do with difficulty - for two of my maths subjects, I got exactly 80 for both of them - and put in the same amount of effort for both of them, which was zilch. My friends, on the other hand, all struggled really hard and some of them barely passed - hell, we formed a little study group in our tutes, in which they would approach me with questions they had tried before coming in, and I'd solve despite not having revised the content yet. Maths isn't necessarily harder than other subjects, hell no subject is necessarily harder than another - it's, quite simply, "different strokes for different folks". The irony is these people that worked so much harder than me for much worse scores? Ran circles around me in physics - I had no idea what I was doing in those classes, no matter how much I studied, whereas those two were able to do quite well.

[Lear]

But this makes the assumption that students don't already feel the need to try hard - most are made painfully aware that any class they fail is $1000+ that they'll need to pay back to the Government at some stage.

You think so? It may just be me, but my HECS debt comes to my mind exactly 1 time every year and that's when I have to check the HECS box when I enrol. I really don't think many people consider the cost of failing in terms of HECS debt. The simplicity and 'out of the way' nature of enrolling for HECS allows you to click and forget.

[The Cat In The Hat]

You think so? It may just be me, but my HECS debt comes to my mind exactly 1 time every year and that's when I have to check the HECS box when I enrol. I really don't think many people consider the cost of failing in terms of HECS debt. The simplicity and 'out of the way' nature of enrolling for HECS allows you to click and forget.

I haven't started uni yet. But I haven't bothered looking at all at fees for it; I don't have to pay now, so I don't look at it. Sure, I don't want to fail stuff. But what's here isn't going to change anything like that. All it'll do is, potentially, put way more stress on me, if I was going to fail subjects. It would also practically shut me out from any further education (if I did lose HECS). However, I have no opinion on this matter, not really. I care neither way.
Honestly though, I have no idea really about what it is or anything. Feels like there simply isn't enough information on uni out there, and if there is, takes a poisonous amount of time to search up - in which time one might have failed or done badly somewhere, in which case may not even be able to do the course that so much time was spent looking up. So I dunno really

[Sine]

After doing research (im not familar with the concept of hecs), HECS doesn't give you money, it's a loan. You will eventually have to pay for it, also the universities aren't the ones paying for HECS. It's the government. And the government can easily fund this, if they just, didn't have a messed up education funding hierarchy. But that's too political. It's just a way to reduce social transfer payments. But in the same sense, I think we were expecting this, the govt is still effectively losing money because hecs is interest free so when we pay it back it'll be worth less because inflation.

HECS is adjusted for inflation but also in the technical sense interest-free.

[keltingmeith]

You think so? It may just be me, but my HECS debt comes to my mind exactly 1 time every year and that's when I have to check the HECS box when I enrol. I really don't think many people consider the cost of failing in terms of HECS debt. The simplicity and 'out of the way' nature of enrolling for HECS allows you to click and forget.

My lecturers wouldn't let me forget it if I tried lol. But also, the amount of outrage being sparked by the course fee changes the government proposed earlier in the year I think does inform there's definitely a group of students who are actively aware of their HECS debt. But also, counterpoint - if the debt didn't worry them before because it was out of mind, why would this change things? It's nice to think, "oh, we made this a bigger deal, so people will think about it now" - but the gravity or impact of something only loosely correlates with memory, whereas its abundance in their life 100% does correlate. For example - cancer is one of the most dangerous things in our lives, but for a lot of people they aren't thinking about it constantly, when it is very highly prevalent and a real risk to basically everyone. So, why aren't they thinking about cancer? - because it's not the thing that we're dealing with 99% of the time, COVID-19 is. Unless you start reminding people more about losing HECS, I doubt it'll even stick in their mind anyway - hell, the more likely point is they'll realise their struggling and near failing, get reminded that if they do fail they'll lose HECS, and then turn into an anxious little bubble that can't perform ANYWAY.

I haven't started uni yet. But I haven't bothered looking at all at fees for it; I don't have to pay now, so I don't look at it. Sure, I don't want to fail stuff. But what's here isn't going to change anything like that. All it'll do is, potentially, put way more stress on me, if I was going to fail subjects. It would also practically shut me out from any further education (if I did lose HECS). However, I have no opinion on this matter, not really. I care neither way.
Honestly though, I have no idea really about what it is or anything. Feels like there simply isn't enough information on uni out there, and if there is, takes a poisonous amount of time to search up - in which time one might have failed or done badly somewhere, in which case may not even be able to do the course that so much time was spent looking up. So I dunno really

Actually, information on HECS is available freely on the Government website, and the university should (or I think even by law, HAS to) show you to those resources before you can accept the loan. Sure, maybe it's a "should've read the terms and conditions" type of situations, but it does mean that you should be aware of where to find the "terms and conditions" if you end up in this situation. So, with a little luck, if the legislation gets through - at least you'll be able to inform yourself, so you know what's up. I highly recommend reading the material, too - there's a lot in there that you may have had no idea about. For example, there's a "HECS-loan limit" of about $100,000, starting from the start of this year. At the same link, it also informs you that there's a deadline before dropping out in which you don't get charged HECS - essentially acting as a "try before you buy" for units.

Because education is not a privilege, its a right

lol there's a whole other debate in itself

I also think this announcement should've been made earlier, if they were made aware of this earlier students would have had the incentive to try harder.  I just think especially now, in the time of covid. When people are struggling to get jobkeeper payments + youth allowance it probably wasn’t the best time to introduce this change.

TBF, this announcement won't affect people currently studying. It may apply to them retroactively (that is, even though they started before the law comes in, it might still apply to them), but it won't be applied to units they did before the law was passed. Also, tbf, anything that means the government can spend less time is a change they won't to be putting out there WHILE COVID is a thing, when people are scared about the economy and it potentially failing - I just don't personally think this was the right way to tackle that potential problem.

[S_R_K]

You think so? It may just be me, but my HECS debt comes to my mind exactly 1 time every year and that's when I have to check the HECS box when I enrol. I really don't think many people consider the cost of failing in terms of HECS debt. The simplicity and 'out of the way' nature of enrolling for HECS allows you to click and forget.

Correct, the amount of extra debt you'd incur by failing is pretty insignificant when considered in the context of the additional life-time earnings you gain by completing a tertiary education.

The most important economic motivation behind not failing a subject is the opportunity cost of having to spent additional time in tertiary education rather than in the workforce.