Login

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

April 30, 2024, 02:56:06 am

Author Topic: VCE English Question Thread  (Read 854308 times)  Share 

0 Members and 8 Guests are viewing this topic.

qazser

  • Victorian
  • Forum Obsessive
  • ***
  • Posts: 472
  • Respect: +23
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #945 on: February 17, 2016, 10:33:42 pm »
0
Hey, i don't know if this is a bit of an obvious question but how would you introduce an argument into an oral. Would you just go straight in for example ' a common argument is...' or would you introduce the argument somewhat secretly and very smooth?

Thanks in advance  :) :)

IMO Try not to start with
"good afternoon Superman and fellow classmates, my name is Batman. The issue which i will put forward today is..."

Try
-Anecdotes(stories)
-Rhetorical Question
-Video(esp shocking pics, immediately attack's reader's appeal for sympathy etc.)
-Stats

My opinion might not be right, see what the other AN fellows say :)
AN Chat: Hop On!

2016:Methods[   ]

literally lauren

  • Administrator
  • Part of the furniture
  • *****
  • Posts: 1699
  • Resident English/Lit Nerd
  • Respect: +1423
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #946 on: February 18, 2016, 10:48:45 am »
+1
Hey, i don't know if this is a bit of an obvious question but how would you introduce an argument into an oral. Would you just go straight in for example ' a common argument is...' or would you introduce the argument somewhat secretly and very smooth?

Thanks in advance  :) :)
That depends on whether this is an argument, or your argument. Obviously if it's your contention then you don't want to introduce it as something "common," and if it's a counterpoint that you want to disagree with, then you should characterise it as such.

Consider:

1. The reason why students are at a disadvantage nowadays is because the ATAR system is confusing and broken - something must be done to fix this for the sake of our country's future!

vs.

2. Some people may think that the ATAR system is confusing or broken, but this is just product of their own misunderstanding.

Notice how, in the first example, I'm presenting this point in a persuasive way ("something must be done") in order to frame it as something I am endorsing or agreeing with? Whereas in the second case, the same point is presented in a "some people may think this, but they're wrong" sort of way :P

So if you're bringing up a point you agree with, there's no reason to preface it with "The following point I am about to make is an argument. Here is the argument: _____" but if you want to challenge this point or actually discuss whether it has any merit, then you can go for the more explicit markers like "some people may believe" or "it is widely known that..." etc.

HopefulLawStudent

  • Victorian
  • Forum Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • Respect: +168
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #947 on: February 19, 2016, 05:59:16 pm »
0
I'm studying Medea for Reading and Responding.

Medea argues that she would never "think of leaving sons of mine... for those who hate me to insult", thereby validating (to some degree) the infanticide that closes the play as an act of love, performed to save her sons from becoming a vehicle through which others may seek to hurt her.

What I don't get is this: Why doesn't Medea just take her sons with her to Athens?

Darth_Pepe

  • Guest
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #948 on: February 19, 2016, 06:23:41 pm »
+2
I'm studying Medea for Reading and Responding.

Medea argues that she would never "think of leaving sons of mine... for those who hate me to insult", thereby validating (to some degree) the infanticide that closes the play as an act of love, performed to save her sons from becoming a vehicle through which others may seek to hurt her.

What I don't get is this: Why doesn't Medea just take her sons with her to Athens?

Revenge against her husband. Back then it was a big deal to have a family line and if she killed her two sons Jason would literally have nothing left and no generation to pass anything onto.

Coffee

  • Forum Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 631
  • Respect: +322
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #949 on: February 19, 2016, 06:31:27 pm »
+3
What I don't get is this: Why doesn't Medea just take her sons with her to Athens?

She kills her children as an act of revenge against Jason. When he leaves her to marry Glauce she is absolutely devastated. In order for Medea to inflict the same amount of pain he did to her she decides that he must be left with nothing. This is done through her murder (poisoning) of the Princess and incidentally Creon too, and finally the murder of their children.

If you take a look around page 59/60 you can find her reasoning for this:
"But my pain's a fair price, to take away your smile."
"I can stab too: your sons are dead! ... To haunt your life with vengeance."
And probably most importantly:
"Jason: Dear - and your murdered them?
Medea: "Yes, Jason, to break your heart."

Swagadaktal

  • SwagLordOfAN
  • Forum Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 904
  • djkhaled305 is the key to success
  • Respect: +102
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #950 on: February 19, 2016, 06:48:02 pm »
0
I'm studying Medea for Reading and Responding.

Medea argues that she would never "think of leaving sons of mine... for those who hate me to insult", thereby validating (to some degree) the infanticide that closes the play as an act of love, performed to save her sons from becoming a vehicle through which others may seek to hurt her.

What I don't get is this: Why doesn't Medea just take her sons with her to Athens?
I've just read the book and I haven't done much on it (doing it in term 3 sooooo)
But from what I've gathered, her son's would live a life in the shadows? They would live alone in a foreign city, being raised by a single mother. At those times, single mothers had it tough and their lives simply would not of been worth living (like this is what the crazy bitch is thinking right?) - coz they'd always be second-rate citizens, and their royal siblings will always have first preference of everything if they were to ever reunite with Jason's new fam --
Can anyone agree? I've only read this book to a shallow degree and I havent read externally so my opinions aren't founded
Fuck you english your eyebrows aren't even good
Why walk when you can stand on the shoulders of giants?

HopefulLawStudent

  • Victorian
  • Forum Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 822
  • Respect: +168
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #951 on: February 19, 2016, 07:52:42 pm »
0
Huh.

You guys have given me some fodder to mull over.

Swagadaktal

  • SwagLordOfAN
  • Forum Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 904
  • djkhaled305 is the key to success
  • Respect: +102
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #952 on: February 21, 2016, 01:32:03 pm »
0
Ok guys, I need help structuring my bodies (ik its year 12 i should already be good at this shit, but I think what I've learnt in year 11 isn't effective in year 12) -- I structure my bodies as: T.s - evidence 1 - explain evidence 1 - relate evidence 1 to argument. Then, evidence 2 - explain evidence 2 - relate evidence 2 to argument - link evidence 1 and 2 to the argument - link evidence 1 and 2 to a greater idea (eitehr a different perspective, or a social/historical context or really just bring home the values of the author) - but I find that i always end up re-telling the plot and it's just simply not effective. How do I structure my bodies so that I have continuous embedded quotations and have better flow throughout the whole body?
Like I write my topic sentence.. and then what? Do i go into my argument and then use quotes whilst simultaneously explaining what the author is doing to show that?
Fuck you english your eyebrows aren't even good
Why walk when you can stand on the shoulders of giants?

Swagadaktal

  • SwagLordOfAN
  • Forum Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 904
  • djkhaled305 is the key to success
  • Respect: +102
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #953 on: February 21, 2016, 02:17:59 pm »
0
Ok guys, I need help structuring my bodies (ik its year 12 i should already be good at this shit, but I think what I've learnt in year 11 isn't effective in year 12) -- I structure my bodies as: T.s - evidence 1 - explain evidence 1 - relate evidence 1 to argument. Then, evidence 2 - explain evidence 2 - relate evidence 2 to argument - link evidence 1 and 2 to the argument - link evidence 1 and 2 to a greater idea (eitehr a different perspective, or a social/historical context or really just bring home the values of the author) - but I find that i always end up re-telling the plot and it's just simply not effective. How do I structure my bodies so that I have continuous embedded quotations and have better flow throughout the whole body?
Like I write my topic sentence.. and then what? Do i go into my argument and then use quotes whilst simultaneously explaining what the author is doing to show that?
ok update: I understand the integration of quotes and development of ideas...
I just need to know where to go from a topic sentence? Do i go strraight into evidence and yolo it from there? What's your first sentence after the topic sentence?
Fuck you english your eyebrows aren't even good
Why walk when you can stand on the shoulders of giants?

JewHunter

  • Fresh Poster
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • "It always seems impossible until its done"-Hitler
  • Respect: 0
  • School: Suzanne Cory High School
  • School Grad Year: 2016
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #954 on: February 21, 2016, 02:50:15 pm »
0
Hello, was a straight D student last year. somehow got A+ for the oral. now im doing a film "All about Eve" how do i get A+ on this. SACs in 4 weeks :D
pl

heids

  • Supreme Stalker
  • Honorary Moderator
  • ATAR Notes Superstar
  • *******
  • Posts: 2429
  • Respect: +1632
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #955 on: February 21, 2016, 03:00:04 pm »
+1
I'm gonna leave it to Lauren to discourse on body structures, but wanted to throw in a comment:

ik its year 12 i should already be good at this shit, but I think what I've learnt in year 11 isn't effective in year 12

Worry not, that's exactly how I felt.  I constantly felt that I 'should know' how to write and structure an essay by now... but because of string of dodgy teachers from yr 9-11, I felt clueless (still do haha :P).  It's actually very, very normal among 95% of the population, so no stress.

But yes, I think you just dive straight from your overall 'idea' into evidence to support/prove/build on that idea, as long as the transition is smooth rather than feeling like a sudden 'jerk' into a different topic.

If you're not sure, a great thing to do can be deconstructing sample essays (we've got heaps by different people) into dot-points or flow-charts or highlighted colour-coding - even if they're not on texts you've done, you can still see exactly how they structure their essay and transition between evidence, analysis, and bigger ideas.

Hello, was a straight D student last year. somehow got A+ for the oral. now im doing a film "All about Eve" how do i get A+ on this. SACs in 4 weeks :D
pl

Firstly, congrats on that A+ - must have been so satisfying, well done!

When you read one of your straight-D essays, can you figure out some stuff that you didn't do so well on?  What made you lose those marks?  What bits could you focus on improving?

The way to improve is to:
1.  Pick out a small weakness (e.g. my quoting isn't integrated smoothly, or, my topic sentences focus on evidence rather than ideas etc.)
2.  Try to find out how to do that well - search for examples and ask questions about it.
3.  Practise that skill specifically a few times, and get feedback, until you're on top of it.

Do that with enough specific things, and that's the path to A+!

So, when you've found a couple of specific weaknesses, feel free to drop us a question about how to improve in those specific areas :D
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 03:06:50 pm by bangali »
VCE (2014): HHD, Bio, English, T&T, Methods

Uni (2021-24): Bachelor of Nursing @ Monash Clayton

Work: PCA in residential aged care

Stewart98

  • Adventurer
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • My Names Stewart, but i ain't little.
  • Respect: 0
  • School: Penola Catholic College
  • School Grad Year: 2016
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #956 on: February 21, 2016, 06:51:29 pm »
0
Hey Guys,
I'm in need of some help. So I've got a SAC coming up real soon, which is a text response, and I haven't really learnt how to write a proper essay. I've tried writing a couple and I just can't think of any ideas to write after the first paragraph. Not only that, I also don't know how to find arguments and how to elaborate on them properly.
Please Help! :)
-   "Through God all things are possible" Matthew 19:26    -

2016: Methods, Physics, Business, English and Software.

Apink!

  • Victorian
  • Forum Obsessive
  • ***
  • Posts: 396
  • ~just keep swimming
  • Respect: +9
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #957 on: February 23, 2016, 10:02:27 am »
0
Hi,
I'm having a massive problem developing a complex, well-developed contention for a prompt:
For example, if I had received this prompt: The strength of Wolff's memoir is his readiness to cast himself in the worst possible light
I would have no idea what to write, and would probably end up discussing things that's really really basic and shallow.  Or I could try to come up with a complex contention and waste my writing time. How can I develop a complex contention? Thank you so much :)

edit: I study This Boy's Life
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 10:04:20 am by Apink! »
2015: Mathematical Methods CAS [42]

2016: English [46], Chemistry [42], Biology [37], Psychology [48], Specialist Mathematics [32]
ATAR: 99.20

molecular.

  • Trailblazer
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Respect: 0
  • School: MCE
  • School Grad Year: 2016
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #958 on: February 23, 2016, 02:16:18 pm »
+1
Hey guys,

I am struggling to get my writing to an A+ level, which is the required level to get the score I am after. Currently, I write one essay a week, hand it to my teacher, get feedback 4-5 days later, re-read and check what I need to improve on - sometimes I rewrite and improve on the mistakes but due to time constraints this rarely occurs.

The issue is that although my teacher has said that I have improved, I still cannot score past a B+ (I was a B+ from start of year 11 and am still a B+ in year 12). I do not understand how I have improved so much, which I have felt and can see in my writing if I am still getting the same score.

Overall, I need to get my essays up to an A+ but I have run out of ideas. The text I am studying right now is ‘In the Country of Men’ for text response.

Any responses will be appreciated.



literally lauren

  • Administrator
  • Part of the furniture
  • *****
  • Posts: 1699
  • Resident English/Lit Nerd
  • Respect: +1423
Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #959 on: February 24, 2016, 01:48:11 pm »
+1
Ok guys, I need help structuring my bodies (ik its year 12 i should already be good at this shit, but I think what I've learnt in year 11 isn't effective in year 12) -- I structure my bodies as: T.s - evidence 1 - explain evidence 1 - relate evidence 1 to argument. Then, evidence 2 - explain evidence 2 - relate evidence 2 to argument - link evidence 1 and 2 to the argument - link evidence 1 and 2 to a greater idea (eitehr a different perspective, or a social/historical context or really just bring home the values of the author) - but I find that i always end up re-telling the plot and it's just simply not effective. How do I structure my bodies so that I have continuous embedded quotations and have better flow throughout the whole body?
Like I write my topic sentence.. and then what? Do i go into my argument and then use quotes whilst simultaneously explaining what the author is doing to show that?
ok update: I understand the integration of quotes and development of ideas...
I just need to know where to go from a topic sentence? Do i go strraight into evidence and yolo it from there? What's your first sentence after the topic sentence?
Okay, I could write thousands of words about this but in the interests of keeping things concise, your B.P.s for T.R. should look something like:

1. Topic Sentence that outlines a sub-argument or key concern you're going to explore
2. Evidence and analysis
3. Statement linking this discussion back to your main contention and the prompt.

Some people are fans of the 'gradual zooming in' sentence after the T.S. which basically lets you explain your points in a little more detail before jumping into the evidence, and I think that's an excellent idea.

I'd actually advocate for more of a 'yolo' approach when it comes to stage two though. Your previous structure seems a bit too narrow, and restricting yourself to just two pieces of evidence per paragraph is not a good idea. Think of it like building a case in a courtroom or even building a stack of lego bricks - you can't just say two things or put two bricks down and call it a stable structure. You need sufficient coverage of the text to get marks, and limiting your evidence base kind of sets you up to fall short.

Instead, perhaps structure your body paragraphs around the 'explain it to a 5 year old' strategy whereby you pretend to take someone (ideally a small child, as this will encourage you to spell out your logic more clearly) through your thought process from the opening idea through to the closing link to your argument. You're allowed to assume that this 5 year old is very intelligent and will understand anything you say so long as the logic is explained clearly.

Regarding retelling the story, think of it this way. Imagine you had a quote from your text, and someone was asking you where that quote was from. If you were explaining it to a parent, or to your friend at a different school, you'd want to be giving them quite a bit of background info, right? You couldn't just say 'oh, Susan said it after the fire' because they'd be like... who's Susan? What fire? Wtf?? But if you're talking to a friend in your English class, you're not going to give them  a huge speech like 'well this quote was delivered by Susan who is Neil's wife and the protagonist of the novel, following her dramatic escape from the hospital which burned down after Neil accidentally set some curtains on fire' because your friend is going to be like... yeah, I know... I've read the book too... you could've just said 'it was Susan after the fire.'

When you write T.R. essays, you need to assume that your assessor has read the text. That doesn't mean you can jump all over the place with no context to your discussion, but it does mean that when you introduce points of evidence, you can just say 'Following her confrontation with the fireman, Susan...' and go on to analyse from there.

Hey Guys,
I'm in need of some help. So I've got a SAC coming up real soon, which is a text response, and I haven't really learnt how to write a proper essay. I've tried writing a couple and I just can't think of any ideas to write after the first paragraph. Not only that, I also don't know how to find arguments and how to elaborate on them properly.
Please Help! :)
Have a read through the links on the first page of this thread under the 'Text Response' heading. Hopefully that'll give you some foundation for understanding, and just let us know if there's anything you're still unsure of :)

Hi,
I'm having a massive problem developing a complex, well-developed contention for a prompt:
For example, if I had received this prompt: The strength of Wolff's memoir is his readiness to cast himself in the worst possible light
I would have no idea what to write, and would probably end up discussing things that's really really basic and shallow.  Or I could try to come up with a complex contention and waste my writing time. How can I develop a complex contention? Thank you so much :)

edit: I study This Boy's Life
See above; the first page of this thread has some good links to discussions about unpacking prompts and formulating contentions, so have a read through those first. Also, consider whether this is a problem with you feeling as though you don't know the text well enough, or just not being able to word your ideas in a more complex way. Simply put: do you not know what to say, or do you not know how to say it, because those are two very different issues that require fairly different approaches.

Hey guys,

I am struggling to get my writing to an A+ level, which is the required level to get the score I am after. Currently, I write one essay a week, hand it to my teacher, get feedback 4-5 days later, re-read and check what I need to improve on - sometimes I rewrite and improve on the mistakes but due to time constraints this rarely occurs.

The issue is that although my teacher has said that I have improved, I still cannot score past a B+ (I was a B+ from start of year 11 and am still a B+ in year 12). I do not understand how I have improved so much, which I have felt and can see in my writing if I am still getting the same score.

Overall, I need to get my essays up to an A+ but I have run out of ideas. The text I am studying right now is ‘In the Country of Men’ for text response.

Any responses will be appreciated.
Okay, so you're getting a B+. But why are you getting a B+? <-- if you can answer that question, then improvement will be easy, but if you get stuck in the mindset of 'I want to be scoring A+s and I'm not,' then it'll be really hard to facilitate qualitative improvement.

Are you making the same mistakes every time, or are you fixing some mistakes and them making others every time you write? Is your teacher able to go through some of your pieces with you and explain what you need to do to improve? And by that I don't mean having someone say 'your Topic Sentences need work,' but rather, someone who will sit down with you and explain why your T.S.s are flawed, what good ones look like, why they're good, and how you can go about modifying your writing style in order to turn yours into those good versions.

Try to put thoughts of numerical scores or letter grades out of your head for now, and see if you can come up with a personalised list of 'do's and don't's' for Text Response.

eg.
DO:
Ensure your contention is clear by the end of the introduction
Include at least five quotes in every paragraph
Use the author's name when 'zooming out' and talking about the text as a whole
etc.

DON'T
Summarise all your arguments in the introduction and conclusion
Stick quotes into your sentences without integrating them
Reuse words from the prompt without variation or expansion
etc.

...and this will give you a much more coherent plan for improvement :)

Let me know if you have any questions!