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April 29, 2024, 08:07:34 pm

Author Topic: VCE English Question Thread  (Read 854195 times)  Share 

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molecular.

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #960 on: February 24, 2016, 06:54:49 pm »
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Thanks for your advice Lauren. I will get working!

molecular.

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #961 on: February 28, 2016, 01:30:08 pm »
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Hey guys,

Can someone mark my essay? I have a sac very soon.

Any response will be helpful.

Thanks.

literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #962 on: February 28, 2016, 04:21:06 pm »
+3
Got your PM, I will get there eventually :) Essay marking related stuff usually goes here for future reference.

Also, to the people sending me some less-than-patient PMs at the moment (not at all directed at you molecular - this just a general request to others) please be aware that the times when you're dealing with SACs are often times when the rest of the state are dealing with SACs too... meaning that at several stages throughout the year, a lot of people are seeking help all at once. Since the start of Feb, I've been getting on average thirty essays a day from students either through the forums or elsewhere, and the stuff you see me marking publically is probably about 2% of my workload right now :-\

In general I try and give priority to people posting on the submissions boards since that has the potential to benefit others too, so if you're messaging me with an essay expecting feedback the evening before your homework is due or your SAC begins, you're unlikely to get a response -- not because I'm ignoring you but because if I don't have a system for dealing with the tidal waves of essays to mark then I'll end up unfairly disadvantaging everybody. I'll happily give comments to people if they're PMing their work, and I'm by no means trying to discourage people from seeking feedback, but please be patient with this poor little workhorse - there are only so many hours in a day, and I'm told I have to spend at least some of them sleeping.

So post on the submissions board for a quicker and more in-depth reply, otherwise be prepared to wait a few days for me to get around to things.

molecular.

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #963 on: February 28, 2016, 06:11:55 pm »
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Hey Lauren,

I completely understand were you are coming from. Sorry for any misunderstanding - you must be sick of essays.

Peace :)

literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #964 on: February 28, 2016, 06:59:59 pm »
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Hey Lauren,

I completely understand were you are coming from. Sorry for any misunderstanding - you must be sick of essays.

Peace :)
All good man, the above wasn't even slightly directed at you; it's more the people spamming me with four or five essays and then demanding an explanation as to why I haven't responded within 24 hours  ::) - I'll try and get some comments back to you later tonight :)

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #965 on: February 28, 2016, 07:06:12 pm »
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All good man, the above wasn't even slightly directed at you; it's more the people spamming me with four or five essays and then demanding an explanation as to why I haven't responded within 24 hours  ::) - I'll try and get some comments back to you later tonight :)
Wait is this an invitation to send you an essay :O - Like once every while (not too often, maybe 1 or 2 a term?)
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literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #966 on: February 28, 2016, 07:19:02 pm »
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Wait is this an invitation to send you an essay :O - Like once every while (not too often, maybe 1 or 2 a term?)
This is a... polite reminder that there are hundreds of other people sending me essays so if you do intend to send me things, you shouldn't expect instantaneous replies :P I'd much prefer you post on the submissions board since you have no idea how frustrating it is to have like twenty people send you essays on a certain text and ask you for sample essays about that text since if they'd all put theirs up on the forums, they could all benefit from one another's work. Alas, I know people labour under the delusion of not wanting to give an advantage to anyone in VCE, so if you do want to message me, just know that I'm usually tackling half a dozen other pieces on any given day, so your patience will be appreciated. Not trying to come across as standoffish, but I just wanted to say something here about how essays are welcome(-ish) but the 'y u no mark my essay yet!?' messages... not so much... Also this is just a bit of a catch-all for some of the PMs I've neglected recently - I will get there eventually :P

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #967 on: February 29, 2016, 03:48:34 pm »
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Hello everyone,
I was wondering if I could receive assistance on how I can move away from very simple ideas per paragraph. I'm studying This Boy's Life at the moment. If I got this prompt:
"I didn't come to Utah to be the same boy I'd been before. I had my own dreams of transformation" Ultimately, the text demonstrates that everyone covers up or transforms in some way.

Immediately seeing this, this is how I would structure it (and it's bad)
Par 1: Examples of people who covers up (to agree with prompt)
Par2: Examples of people who transform (to agree with prompt)
Par3: Examples of people who don't cover up or transform (to disagree with prompt)
I know I'm doing this wrong. How can I come up with insightful ideas to discuss (quickly). Please help! :) :)
And if you get a really simple 2 mark text response prompt, HOW can you discuss more in dept ideas when the prompt is asking you something fairly simple?
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Swagadaktal

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #968 on: February 29, 2016, 07:30:45 pm »
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Wassup my peeps,

I was wondering about what we have to do if there is a quote in the prompt? Do we have to use it? I draw ideas out from it but do I have to acknowledge the quote itself in my essay?
I couldn't find anything on the QnA front page, if it's there link me there pls

thx
:)
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Alter

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #969 on: February 29, 2016, 08:09:05 pm »
+3
If there is a quote in the prompt, you should always address it in one form or another. Quotes are often placed to steer you in a certain direction and allow you to build off an idea that is only in its foundations. Typically, I'd address the quote in the first paragraph, or perhaps the introduction if it is possible or the quote is very minor. Doing so in the first body paragraph shows that you've thought about your response before you've jumped head-first into the question and allows you to extend off the quote given into some more complex ideas. This will prove to your examiner that you know your text well and you can respond to the actual task given, both of which are things that won't hurt you.
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GradReady

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #970 on: February 29, 2016, 11:29:43 pm »
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Hello everyone,
I was wondering if I could receive assistance on how I can move away from very simple ideas per paragraph. I'm studying This Boy's Life at the moment. If I got this prompt:
"I didn't come to Utah to be the same boy I'd been before. I had my own dreams of transformation" Ultimately, the text demonstrates that everyone covers up or transforms in some way.

Immediately seeing this, this is how I would structure it (and it's bad)
Par 1: Examples of people who covers up (to agree with prompt)
Par2: Examples of people who transform (to agree with prompt)
Par3: Examples of people who don't cover up or transform (to disagree with prompt)
I know I'm doing this wrong. How can I come up with insightful ideas to discuss (quickly). Please help! :) :)
And if you get a really simple 2 mark text response prompt, HOW can you discuss more in dept ideas when the prompt is asking you something fairly simple?

Sometimes you're simply bound to the prompt, and its simplicity can be creatively prohibitive. Your primary concern is addressing the prompt. Resorting to several broad and simple point does not spell doom. In fact, it can be refreshing and very powerful if it is persuasively argued.

On the other hand, if the prompt enables nuanced arguments to be made, locating those arguments comes with practice. Spend lots of time thinking about potential prompts before an exam/SAC, and think deeply about the issues those prompts raise. Come exam/SAC time, you should have an itinerary ready to adapt to the specific prompt to which you're asked to respond.

Hope that's of some assistance.
VCE - English

Swagadaktal

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #971 on: March 01, 2016, 03:48:18 pm »
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Sometimes you're simply bound to the prompt, and its simplicity can be creatively prohibitive. Your primary concern is addressing the prompt. Resorting to several broad and simple point does not spell doom. In fact, it can be refreshing and very powerful if it is persuasively argued.

On the other hand, if the prompt enables nuanced arguments to be made, locating those arguments comes with practice. Spend lots of time thinking about potential prompts before an exam/SAC, and think deeply about the issues those prompts raise. Come exam/SAC time, you should have an itinerary ready to adapt to the specific prompt to which you're asked to respond.

Hope that's of some assistance.
On that point, do our contentions need to be really mind blowing? As well as our topic sentences/ arguments. Or could they just be insightful body paragraphs that have good use of evidence and relate it to the author's ideas and what not?
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literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #972 on: March 03, 2016, 01:32:20 pm »
+4
Hello everyone,
I was wondering if I could receive assistance on how I can move away from very simple ideas per paragraph. I'm studying This Boy's Life at the moment. If I got this prompt:
"I didn't come to Utah to be the same boy I'd been before. I had my own dreams of transformation" Ultimately, the text demonstrates that everyone covers up or transforms in some way.

Immediately seeing this, this is how I would structure it (and it's bad)
Par 1: Examples of people who covers up (to agree with prompt)
Par2: Examples of people who transform (to agree with prompt)
Par3: Examples of people who don't cover up or transform (to disagree with prompt)
I know I'm doing this wrong. How can I come up with insightful ideas to discuss (quickly). Please help! :) :)
And if you get a really simple 2 mark text response prompt, HOW can you discuss more in dept ideas when the prompt is asking you something fairly simple?
Just going to break this up a bit...

Firstly:
I was wondering if I could receive assistance on how I can move away from very simple ideas per paragraph. I'm studying This Boy's Life at the moment. If I got this prompt:
"I didn't come to Utah to be the same boy I'd been before. I had my own dreams of transformation" Ultimately, the text demonstrates that everyone covers up or transforms in some way.
The best way to go from simple ideas to complex ones is to create a sophisticated contention. The way I explain this makes more sense visually when I can make erratic hand gestures, but you basically want to funnel the text through the prompt, then funnel that through your contention, then distribute what's left into three body paragraphs.

Crude approximation:



You can also have four, (or, I suppose, five sub-arguments) but that's hard to format so let's assume you're sticking with three for argument's sake. So you're never writing on 'the text' or 'the prompt;' you're writing on your contention! This means that your first thought should be turning this prompt into a viable argument, since if you bypass that step and try to come up with sub-arguments before you've come up with... well... an argument... things get a bit tricky.

For example:
"I didn't come to Utah to be the same boy I'd been before. I had my own dreams of transformation"
Ultimately, the text demonstrates that everyone covers up or transforms in some way.

Alter's already covered what to do when a quote is involved in the prompt, so let's put that to the side for now. The core of this prompt is:
All of the characters in TBL cover up or transform in some way.
Next, do you mostly agree or mostly disagree with that sentiment?
--> If you mostly agree, then consider how you might still challenge the prompt somehow.
--> If you mostly disagree, then consider how the prompt might still be somewhat true.

Let's assume you're mostly agreeing, since that seems to be the more logical line of inquiry here.
We want to argue that the characters do cover up or transform, but we don't want to be too definitive. The prompt states that everyone covers up/transforms, and we shouldn't just take that absolute word without questioning it. Perhaps our challenge could come in the form of examining characters that don't really cover up/transform. But that's not really an 'argument' kind of challenge since listing some evidence that doesn't conform to our rule isn't a very substantive discussion point. A lot of students will write a 'challenge' or 'rebuttal' paragraph where they examine the 'other side' of the prompt, but too often this will occur in the form of them just listing evidence that goes against their points.

For instance, if you were to have:
Para 1: the characters who cover up
Para 2: the characters who transform
Para 3: the characters who DON'T cover up or transform
...then you won't have argued anything other than 'some characters cover up/transform and some don't.'

This seems to be kind of where you're at right now, but I'll unpack your sample structure later. For now, because we're concentrating on ways of formulating an overall argument, let's revisit our paraphrasing of the prompt:
All of the characters in TBL cover up or transform in some way.
If I'm agreeing with the underlying principle here, then I want to be arguing that many of the characters cover up, transform, or both. (Note the use of the word 'many,' which serves to pull my contention back from the cliffs of definitiveness - I'm not saying 'all,' because I don't want to seem aggressively 100% certain about my interpretation.)

As a possible challenge, I might consider:
...that the characters cover up/transform for different reasons
...that the characters cover up/transform in different ways and to different extents
...that the characters cover up/transform, but their individual journeys are nevertheless unique because of who they were before and after these cover ups/transformations
...that the characters cover up/transform, but they differ in terms of their own self-awareness

^see how each of these is giving me a more substantial argument than simply saying ...but some of the characters don't cover up/transform?

So our contention might look something like:
Many of the characters in TBL cover up/transform, but they do so for different reasons, which brings about different consequences.

Or, in more academic, essay-ish terms:
Although the characters in This Boy's Life often have vastly different motivations for their actions, Wolff unites many of them through demonstrating their capacity to deceive others by subverting expectations, as well as their propensity to conform to the society or circumstances around them.

Notice here that I've also unpacked that terminology of 'covering-up' (=deceiving others and subverting expectations) and 'transforming' (=conforming to their society/circumstances) which up until now, we've just been treating as self-evident ideas. This is something that will need to be evident in your essay because you don't want to get through the whole thing using words like 'cover up' and 'transform' without ever clarifying what you're talking about. For the record, I'd probably use the bulk of my introduction in this case to flesh out these terms and broaden the definitions beyond the bit of clarifying I've done here, so it's not like we're replacing the idea of 'covering-up' with the idea of 'deceiving others by subverting expectations' - that's just one of many avenues to be explored.

Immediately seeing this, this is how I would structure it (and it's bad)
Par 1: Examples of people who covers up (to agree with prompt)
Par2: Examples of people who transform (to agree with prompt)
Par3: Examples of people who don't cover up or transform (to disagree with prompt)
I know I'm doing this wrong. How can I come up with insightful ideas to discuss (quickly). Please help! :) :)
Okay, so in each of those paragraphs, you've got evidence but no argument. It is possible to structure an argument around the evidence that you've presented, but you can't go into a paragraph thinking 'I'm going to write about the characters who transform in the text' because all you'll do is talk about those characters, and there won't be any broader point that helps your contention.

Imagine if we're arguing about the best city to live in, and you say 'Melbourne's the best because it's got a diverse culture, plenty of attractions, and it has won awards for its livability.' Then I say, 'yeah, well, there's a really nice house in Adelaide. So there.'

^One piece of evidence does not make a viable argument, so when you're structuring your essays, you need to prioritise actual sub-contentions rather than just jumping to ways of sorting out evidence.

This is also why structuring paragraphs by characters is a fairly weak approach.
eg. This Boy's Life shows that lies can be damaging. Discuss.
Para 1: Jack's lies and their damage
Para 2: Rosemary's lies and their damage
Para 3: Dwight's lies and their damage.

^Again, I haven't said anything substantial about these different points, I'm just proving the prompt right in three different ways... which isn't exactly valuable and won't earn any credit for exploration/idea discussion.

Instead, going for thematic breakdowns where each paragraph has a proper sentence as its focus makes for a much stronger piece overall. And in terms of doing it quickly... practice makes perfect :)
And if you get a really simple 2 mark text response prompt, HOW can you discuss more in dept ideas when the prompt is asking you something fairly simple?
Not sure what you mean by a '2 mark text response prompt,' but in the event you get a really simple prompt like: This Boy's Life is about accepting change. Discuss. then it's up to you to make things more expansive. Question things in order to broaden your discussion and try to construct your own arguments rather than relying solely on the prompt to provide three obvious talking points.


On that point, do our contentions need to be really mind blowing? As well as our topic sentences/ arguments. Or could they just be insightful body paragraphs that have good use of evidence and relate it to the author's ideas and what not?
If you can manage to write something 'mind blowing,' then go for it, but ultimately your teachers will be reading hundreds of essays (and might have been doing so for multiple years) so the chance of you stumbling onto a never-before-seen amazing argument that's totally unique and utterly impressive is fairly low :P Most people who try to write 'mind blowing' stuff end up doing irrelevant stuff with really tenuous links to evidence, but it's more than sufficient to be insightful. A competent essay that takes a safe line of argument but does all the important structural stuff well is going to be leagues ahead of someone who goes out of the way to have a special snowflake contention at the expense of actually hitting the criteria :)

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #973 on: March 03, 2016, 02:19:00 pm »
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Thank you Alter, GradReady and Lauren.

Lauren, what you have said just made me have a light bulb moment. Thank you  :)
I would just like to ask you one more question - the quote.
Alter has already mentioned that I should discuss them, as the quote reveals a direction of the prompt.
Using the previous prompt, could you please help me see HOW the quote reveals a direction to my argument? Because to me, that just sounds like any other quote about transformation. Is this, by any chance a cue for me to discuss different motivations of transformations and covering up of different characters? (... I had my own dreams of transformation. Indicating individual, unique motivation behind transformations). Also, how can I show that I have thought about the quote? Should I just embed it somewhere and analyse it?

Thank you so much for helping me. I have a SAC soon and I have been very stressed. Thank you :)
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literally lauren

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Re: VCE English Question Thread
« Reply #974 on: March 03, 2016, 02:29:21 pm »
+3
I would just like to ask you one more question - the quote.
Alter has already mentioned that I should discuss them, as the quote reveals a direction of the prompt.
Using the previous prompt, could you please help me see HOW the quote reveals a direction to my argument? Because to me, that just sounds like any other quote about transformation. Is this, by any chance a cue for me to discuss different motivations of transformations and covering up of different characters? (... I had my own dreams of transformation. Indicating individual, unique motivation behind transformations). Also, how can I show that I have thought about the quote? Should I just embed it somewhere and analyse it?

So:
"I didn't come to Utah to be the same boy I'd been before. I had my own dreams of transformation"
Ultimately, the text demonstrates that everyone covers up or transforms in some way.


The prompt is asserting that all the characters cover up or transform somehow.

The quote is from Jack, and reveals his desire to be different and to transform because he doesn't want to be the "same boy" he was before Utah.

So the quote hints at the idea of the characters deliberately wanting to be different and transform. Therefore, one of the core concepts you should explore is whether the characters are able to engineer their own transformations, and how deliberate these changes are. You might even read something into that bit where he says "I had my own dreams of transformation," implying that other people had dreams too. That seems to be what you're hinting at above, so if you wanted to, you could definitely follow that train of thought.

Basically, any time there's a quote in a prompt, the assessors are giving you some indication of the kind of evidence you should cover, but consider it a starting point rather than something your whole argument should revolve around. I'd recommend using the quote within the first paragraph too, as Alter mentioned.