ATAR Notes: Forum
Archived Discussion => VTAC Offers => Results Discussion => Victoria => 2012 => Topic started by: Ngage0 on February 02, 2012, 12:55:53 am
-
Hi guys got an atar of 94.35, umat score wasnt great less than 50 in all sections just wondering any chance at all to get into medicine in australia. Also i am planning to go overseas to india and study MBBS if there is no chance here, is this a good decision? Currently studying BSc at UoM planning on drop it after 1st semester to study mbbs in india. Going to study MBBS at Manipal University 6th ranked unveristy in india.
thanks in advance.
-
You should contact the AMC and tell them that you want to do it in India, they'll tell you whether that degree can be used in Australia. You'll also have to pass an AMC test to be able to practice medicine in Australia.
-
You will find it very hard to practice here afterwards. You will need to pass (probably at a high cost) a series of exams to be able to practice. Then as your degree is not from here, you will not be given preference in where to intern - don't know what difference it makes that you are Australian - but you might be required to work in a "shortage" area for 10 or so years.
-
ive done reasearch and you have to clear the amc 500 question multiple choice exam followed by 2 clinical exams. However after clearing the amc you are able to begin work as a doctor. What about my chances of studying in australia with my current atar?
-
If you take the graduate pathway, which is to do a Bachelor of Science at UoM like you are currently doing, then 3 years down the track, it's all based on GAMSAT and Uni, so ATAR doesn't matter anymore and you have the same chance as everyone else (who might have had a higher ATAR)
-
It's going to be very difficult to maintain a high GPA and gamsat is very difficult. What If I don't make it after 3 years into med. I will be jobless. If I study overseas I can start earning while I'm clearing exams. Any other ideas?
-
It's going to be very difficult to maintain a high GPA and gamsat is very difficult.
In that case, I'll make it easy for you.
You have NO chance of Medicine in Australia
-
If you won't get a high GPA and you believe that the GAMSAT is difficult, argonaut is right, in a nicer way, you really won't get into any graduate medicine courses.
Also, think about it, if you're going to struggle in a science course (you find it difficult to get a high GPA), you'll probably struggle to go through the medicine overseas as well. Not only that, you'll also struggle to pass the AMC tests. All in all, you really should be thinking about whether you're prepared to work really hard for medicine (no matter which path you take)
-
Studying in India then trying to get an Aus license will be like 10 years of hard work. Don't think that the exams when you come back will be easy - one of my family members also tutors Indians who are sitting these exams for Aus. recognition and says they are generally lacking in having a proper understanding because in India its so much rote learning. You ask them to tell you the definition of something and you will get a perfect answer - ask them to diagnose somebody and you may be in strife. It's a tough road.
Studying here to get into med is 3 years of hard work. All that about "i wont have a job" if you don't get in... mate you're still going to have a degree that you can use.
Personally, I would go to UoM.
-
10 years of hard work, how so? after 5 years of MBBS overseas and passing the AMC cant i begin work?
-
10 years of hard work, how so? after 5 years of MBBS overseas and passing the AMC cant i begin work?
you're not gonna pass the AMC first go, then there's internship, residency as well. i'd take a stab and say it's even more than 10 years.
what you could do, is just go on with the Bachelor of Science. If you don't get into postgrad medicine, there's a lot of other health careers you could go into, Optometry, Dentistry, Physio, Pharmacy...etc. If not, you could always continue on to do a masters in Science or in Engineering or basically anything else and work in that too.
-
10 years of hard work, how so? after 5 years of MBBS overseas and passing the AMC cant i begin work?
You dont seem to understand.
The people you want to compete against have already done 2-3 years of HARD work.
They worked hard so that they could get the 99+ ATAR they needed to get into Undergrad Medicine or UoM Biomedicine.
They will continue to work HARD for the next 5-6 years at University.
The moral of the story is that if you want to become a doctor you must do 10 years of HARD work.
Therefore, the sooner you stop complaining on internet forums and get started on doing some HARD work, the better.
-
I don't see how BSc @ Melbourne is inadequate for you anyway - heaps of major pathways if your interests change. And if you don't want the course, there are plenty who missed out who do.
-
I don't see how BSc @ Melbourne is inadequate for you anyway - heaps of major pathways if your interests change. And if you don't want the course, there are plenty who missed out who do.
You are right on the money there.
Even though the Biomed undergrads have earned their stripes, they cannot afford to relax.
There are quite a few guns (including a few Chancellor's Scholars) waiting in the wings at BSc who are certain to go after them.
The MD spots will be hard fought.
This is good healthy competition and its good for the University.
Those of you who get MD at UoM in three years will have my TOTAL RESPECT
.
-
How much do you know about the Indian course Ngage0?
If you choose to go there, hopefully you already know that you start off miles behind them in chemistry and biology. Catching up + learning new stuff in MUCH stiffer competition (they only take 250 students) is not going to be easy.
And, just looking at their admission criteria for international/NRI students:
...The admissions are based on merit and marks/grades obtained in the qualifying examination(equivalent to the +2 examinations of India)...
Also, only 15% of students per course can be international/NRI. So you'd be competing with other internationals to gain one of 37-38 places there. Have you checked with them to see that you qualify (is your ATAR high enough for MBBS there?)?
Personally, I'd go to UoM Sci and persist for an MD place. It's the easier route with less hassles and many less years wasted.
-
I think Indian medicine works basically on the amount of money you have given that you are an NRI. I think approximate cost is around 200k for the whole course but they have prerequisites of physics,chemistry and biology that you need to have before you are eligible to do med.
Stick the Post graduate course for med by doing the GAMSAT
-
I'll make it very simple: if you go to an Indian (or any other international medical school) without being willing to spend the rest of your life working in that country, then you're an idiot. You may be able to return to Australia and begin working here as if there was no difference, but if you're expecting that to happen and planning on it, then you need to seriously look at the reality of the situation. If you're an FMG and you're a rockstar and the best cardiothoracic surgeon in the world, then yeah, you can pretty much do whatever you want and you'll get approved to work here easily. If not, then you go to the back of the line and it's a long way up. I know which option I'd be taking.
-
Go to Uom.
If you cant persist with a high GPA ( in science , which is so much easier than people your competing against studying pharm , optom etc) , then the reality is you truly shouldn't be a doctor.
Being a doctor requires persistence , patience and hard work.
if your in it for the money ... the prestige ... I strongly suggest you seek another career pathway.
Otherwise .. Sit down . stop wasting your time and the time of others complaining its too difficult on internet forums and get your head into the books ... start studying for gamsat now? .. you can do it in 2013.
If you truly want med .. start studying hard like the rest of us and you will eventually get there ( assuming your capable and competent , which is another thing you may find out about yourself in the years to come).
all the best , goodluck.
-
It's going to be very difficult to maintain a high GPA and gamsat is very difficult.
In that case, I'll make it easy for you.
You have NO chance of Medicine in Australia
are you telling me that there hasn't been anyone who has gotten below 99, or someone that has gotten the same score as Ngage0 here that has gotten in medicine postgraduate (if you want to be even more specific, at melbourne university?)
Don't be afraid to dream high. Even if others, such as argonaut are unwilling to :)
I think what argo was saying was that if you aren't willing to try, you won't get it. He just said it much more bluntly.
-
^^I think he's referring to the work ethic and mindset of Ngage0, rather than past achievements. If Ngage0 isn't willing to put in the effort, then there will be NO chance of med.
edit: what burbs said
-
I went there and asked about everything. They require an atar of 90+ and $180,000 upfront payment and 60% in chemistry, physics, biology @ Manipal University.I can afford the payment and i have the marks and ranks. The uni is recognised by amc but you still need to pass the multiple choice exam amc offers. I worked preety hard in vce to get an atar of 94.35 i think i can handle medicine and pass the amc exam.
-
If you don't think you can beat the Australian system, then good luck beating the Indian system.
It's a completely different style of learning and by having an Australian high school education you're already in excess of a year behind on the theoretical knowledge required.
-
If you're willing to work hard to pass the amc exam (which IS NOT easy!), then why not take a graduate pathway in Australia?
It's a completely different style of learning and by having an Australian high school education you're already in excess of a year behind on the theoretical knowledge required.
+1, exactly my point. You will have to work MUCH harder than you did in VCE to firstly catch-up with everyone else, secondly pass, and finally to pass the exams to come back to Australia.
-
I went there and asked about everything. They require an atar of 90+ and $180,000 upfront payment and 60% in chemistry, physics, biology @ Manipal University.I can afford the payment and i have the marks and ranks. The uni is recognised by amc but you still need to pass the multiple choice exam amc offers. I worked preety hard in vce to get an atar of 94.35 i think i can handle medicine and pass the amc exam.
If you are determined to go ahead with that, then I guess I hope it turns out good for you.
-
I worked hard in vce, i just want to relax and pass my exams at uni by maintaining an above average gpa of 70-80% its cause of this that puts me off studying in australia because you need a H1 90-100% and you have to study even harder for gamsat.
-
I worked hard in vce, i just want to relax and pass my exams at uni by maintaining an above average gpa of 70-80% its cause of this that puts me off studying in australia because you need a H1 90-100% and you have to study even harder for gamsat.
You won't do that (bold) by going to India. You are already far behind (as I and taiga have said), and if you plan to cram India's yr12 subjects in a semester whilst juggling UoM Science, then you've got no chance (not being harsh, but realistic, Indian schooling is tough as hell). If you thought VCE was "hard-work", you are in for a big shock, sorry. Furthermore, once you're in med, its not exactly a "relaxing" course either, its more hard work!
Relax a bit after 2-3 years of UoM Science and gamsat, once you're in MD or something similar :)
edit: I actually advise that you go for a gap year. That way you can relax and then re-focus! :)
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
-
what i am planning on doing is, taking chemistry1, biology and cell development, physics 1 and calculus 1 in BSc at UoM for 1 semester. after 1 semester i am going to drop out of the course and begin my mbbs degree in august which is when it starts. i am hoping my 1st semester knowledge of these subjects will help me when i start studying biochemistry, physiology and anatomy in mbbs.
-
Well, if you're sure you've thought about it, then go for it. I wouldn't (and so far no-one posting in this thread would either), but in the end, its your money and time.
Just realise that you won't get to "relax" during the MBBS, its quite a heavy course in any country. And passing that AMC exam is very tough and some people can't pass it after a decade and more.
Good luck, and I hope it works out eventually :)
-
I've spoken to a lot of Australian MBBS students, as I'm going into that course, and I can assure you that an MBBS course, no matter where you do it is NOT easy. You're not going to relax and pass your exams, you're going to be working your ass off just to pass the damn exams, and furthermore, you want good grades as you want a good internship at a good hospital. If your attitude is "i'm going to relax and just pass exams", that might work for a Commerce or Science degree, but not for Medicine, the amount of material that is crammed into the first 2 years of the Monash MBBS is really quite a lot.
Btw, you do realise, passing the AMC Exam as well as the OSCEs (the thingos where you have to pretend to diagnose patients) isn't easy at all. You'll be in a long line of other doctors who have far more experience and have been trying for years. Truth to be told, if you ARE going to get in via the international way, you have a good chance of getting in through the Graduate path as well. You can't just use a cop-out and leave the hard work till later.
As everyone here, Taiga,pi, burbs and argonaut have basically been saying, you have to put in the hard work. If you don't want to put in the hard work, you're not going to do medicine. If going to India is a good idea, don't you reckon a lot of other people who don't get into medicine here would have chosen that option?
Personally, I'll recommend going via Graduate, but like pi, if you decide to go to India, then good luck :)
Moderator action: removed real name, sorry for the inconvenience
-
i am also thinking of other options like mayby dropping out of Bsc before it even begins and just studying for the umat and trying to get a good umat score and applying for the interstate uni's which i did not do at the time. Also allot of people may not choose the option to study overseas just for the costs.
-
You probably should do that, if you get a crazy high UMAT, you might be able to make it into an interstate university. With your ATAR, you probably would get a bonded place, but still better than no medicine.
If you want to drop out of BSc, you have to do it now before the census date or else some unis (such as Monash) won't accept you.
-
i am also thinking of other options like mayby dropping out of Bsc before it even begins and just studying for the umat and trying to get a good umat score and applying for the interstate uni's which i did not do at the time. Also allot of people may not choose the option to study overseas just for the costs.
That's a better idea, although your best course of action really is to just stick with BSci and go for post-grad.
Seriously, don't go to India to do Med. It's a terrible idea for all the reasons people have outlined above. Probably the worst decision you could make in your situation imo.
-
Yeah look if you are willing to spend so much on india + others, why not Bond? Or Full-fee med at UoM?
-
Money is not a problem for me. Could you give me a list of uni's with atar and umat requirements that will accept mbbs students. i cant seem to find any info on this? my umat score wasnt great 54 53 50.
-
Money is not a problem for me. Could you give me a list of uni's with atar and umat requirements that will accept mbbs students. i cant seem to find any info on this? my umat score wasnt great 54 53 50.
Something worries me about the fact you haven't researched this stuff if you want to do med so bad. I'm pretty sure Bond accepts anyone who can pay, the rest will still require a highish umat (at least 80something i think).
-
Look into it mate
http://www.bond.edu.au/degrees-and-courses/undergraduate-degrees/list/bachelor-of-medicine-bachelor-of-surgery/entry-requirements/index.htm
The requirements are considerably lower than most universities as you will be paying a lot.
-
Ngage0 there is a table in the umat resources thread. But burbs makes a lot of sense, why not consider a full-fee place somewhere? You're current umat is not high enough for csp, but fine for Bond (as burbs said).
-
His UMAT would be nowhere near high enough for Bond either, I don't think. If you do an average of the scores, you'll get an overall score of 52, that's well and truly below 50th Percentile. Bond starts taking from somewhere around 80th percentile. Your ATAR MIGHT be good enough for Bond, but you'll have to do a gap year and at least aim for a 90+ percentile in the UMAT.
The other option is to apply full-fee to a postgraduate place. For example, Bond looks at GPA only and there's no interview or GAMSAT, which might benefit you if you intend to pursue the Bachelor of Science.
-
I seem to be completely astounded by what you're considering. You've already got Science @ Melbourne, why would you go to India or drop your place all together to try your luck interstate? If there are so little people who take the pathway you're considering, shouldn't that ring alarm bells? $180,000 is a LOT of money, I probably don't even want to know why money "is not a problem" for you. One way or another you're going to have to work hard, no matter which option you end up taking, so I don't really see the benefits of studying anywhere else except for here, right at your doorstep at Melbourne.
I also seem to be under the impression you're not doing this by your own interest, but I could be wrong.
-
I seem to be completely astounded by what you're considering. You've already got Science @ Melbourne, why would you go to India or drop your place all together to try your luck interstate? If there are so little people who take the pathway you're considering, shouldn't that ring alarm bells? $180,000 is a LOT of money, I probably don't even want to know why money "is not a problem" for you. One way or another you're going to have to work hard, no matter which option you end up taking, so I don't really see the benefits of studying anywhere else except for here, right at your doorstep at Melbourne.
I also seem to be under the impression you're not doing this by your own interest, but I could be wrong.
This ^.
I honestly this its dumb to decline Bsc and just sit at home and prepare for umat.
A dear friend of mine did 0 study and got 76 percentile .... then studied his ass off and got 30% and 70% respectively the next 2 years.
its difficult to say how you will go in umat.
Dont drop out/not start bsc.
its just wasting your time ( unless you plan to work etc and not just study for umat alone).
goodluck ...... make sure you want med for the RIGHT reasons.
Really consider it.....
then if you chose its the right path for you .. start studying now for GPA in bsc.
science is such a ridiculously broad and easy course .. your GPA should be 6.5 ... . no disrespect to those doing science .. its a fantastic idea before med .... but honestly ... its so simple compared to some other courses which involve students your also competing with.
it dosnt matter what course you do .. so take advantage of science and get a high GPA ...... and Do Gamsat . study now ... in 2-3 years you may get into med.
-
Why not just do BSc @ UoM and then apply for a full fee spot for $200,000 at UoM since your willing to pay 180,000 for entry in India anyway.
-
Why not just do BSc @ UoM and then apply for a full fee spot for $200,000 at UoM since your willing to pay 180,000 for entry in India anyway.
Just because he is willing to pay 200,000 doesn't mean that he'll get into MD at UoM, the GPA, GAMSAT and Interview requirements are lower, but still, it's tough competition.
Anyways, matt123, no it's not that simple, if he wants to study undergraduate medicine at Monash (and some other unis as well, I believe) he HAS to take a gap year, they will not accept anyone who has done ANY form of tertiary study.
-
Cant he just do bachelor of science and repeat the UMAT in the first year. Lets face it first semester of university isn't that hard. You could average Distinctions with average work.
-
Why not just do BSc @ UoM and then apply for a full fee spot for $200,000 at UoM since your willing to pay 180,000 for entry in India anyway.
Just because he is willing to pay 200,000 doesn't mean that he'll get into MD at UoM, the GPA, GAMSAT and Interview requirements are lower, but still, it's tough competition.
Anyways, matt123, no it's not that simple, if he wants to study undergraduate medicine at Monash (and some other unis as well, I believe) he HAS to take a gap year, they will not accept anyone who has done ANY form of tertiary study.
with tertiary study .. .you can still apply at few places.
but yes , at monash its a different story
...
just do dentistry .. and sleep in bathtubs of caaaaaaaaash money flow bitchaz ferrari
-
Cant he just do bachelor of science and repeat the UMAT in the first year. Lets face it first semester of university isn't that hard. You could average Distinctions with average work.
Yes but then uni choices are more limitted :(
-
Is it really easy to maintain a high gpa in science? Also i cant start studying now, i would not know what to study cause i dont know exactly what they teach unlike vce. In VCE i began studying earlier and so had the advantage. I dont think i can do the same with uni courses.
-
Is it really easy to maintain a high gpa in science? Also i cant start studying now, i would not know what to study cause i dont know exactly what they teach unlike vce. In VCE i began studying earlier and so had the advantage. I dont think i can do the same with uni courses.
Easier, probably. Because it's such an open course you select your major, then if you want, strategically place easier subjects in your third year to increase the effect of the GPA multiplier in the third year. Read this post -> Re: What Level 3 subjects are good for BSc/Major in Mechanical Systems? and this GPA for PostGraduate Medicine Explained
(Thanks, Peedles ;) )
-
86, i see you are doing Bsc @ UoM what your major? we should meet up on campus. I dont know anyone at uni atm.
-
It's like speaking to a rock....
-
20 goats and you've made into medicine in India.
-
I got admission into MBBS into manipal university. I'm planning on going in a few months time when they are about to start the course.
-
Good luck with it, hope you manage to make it back to Aus at some point in the future :)
-
I got admission into MBBS into manipal university. I'm planning on going in a few months time when they are about to start the course.
Well, if you've made up your mind, nothing I say can change your view, but I need to warn you of a few things, just because I feel that it's important to:
1) You're giving up your place at the UoM
2) Unless you pass the AMC (no easy feat) you won't practice in Australia
3) International doctors have a VERY LONG bonded contract with the government
4) It's going to cost you a fortune
5) It won't be easy
Just a few words of advice mate :) But all in all, good luck, even despite great challenges we all somehow seem to pull through if we give it our best shot and keep trying
-
I got admission into MBBS into manipal university. I'm planning on going in a few months time when they are about to start the course.
good effort getting in,
what was the entrance exam like ngage?
did u apply for ludhiana too ?
-
Thanks guys. Paul, i agree with you the AMC will be no easy feat how ever i read on Doctors Connect an Australian website for IMG's that if you are an Australian Permanent resident and have an Australian citizenship you are exempted from the 10 year monumentary period and can work anywhere without restriction as you fall under Section 19AA. So basically if i clear my AMC i just need to enroll into RACGP to gain fellowship to work as a GP. Correct me if i am wrong. I also read that employers prefer Australian citizens to overseas ones as it helps the economy, more jobs for aussies etc. Generally overseas trained doctors who come to Australia are not permanent residents nor do they have a citizenship which is why it is very difficult for them to find work. As for money and debt i'm not too worried my parents plan on paying for all expenses of living overseas etc and i have relatives nearby.
-
Sounds like a plan champ. Good luck with your endeavours in India mate.
-
Thanks bro, i just hope it work out. I have done so much research into it. 2/3 doctors in australia are overseas trained i have read. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/reliance-on-overseas-trained-doctors-growing/story-e6frg8y6-1225845512243
-
Of course it would work out, you have been very convincing to us that it would...
-
Thanks bro, i just hope it work out. I have done so much research into it. 2/3 doctors in australia are overseas trained i have read. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/reliance-on-overseas-trained-doctors-growing/story-e6frg8y6-1225845512243
Do you know how many are bonded to rural areas for like 10 years? (btw, I doubt we'll have that issue to that extent in 5-10yrs time)
Having said that, I hope you get back alright :)
-
Thanks VegemitePi! May i ask how is med going at monash? Is med very intersting? What do you guys do? I already received my syllabus and in india med is broken up into 3 phases.
Pre Clinical: Biochemistry, Anatomy, Physiology (2 semester)
Para Clinical: Community Medicine; Forensic Medicine,
Pathology, Pharmacology, Microbiology, Clinical
postings in wards, OPDs to begin here; (3 semesters)
Clinical: Community Medicine, Medicine and allied
subjects (Psychiatry,Dermatology) ; Obst .
Gynae.; Pediatrics;
Surgery and allied subjects (Anesthesiology,
E.N.T., Ophthalmology, Orthopedics);
Clinical postings; (Four semesters)
Takes 5 years to complete MBBS in india including 1 year compulsory internship.
-
May i ask how is med going at monash? Is med very intersting? What do you guys do?
Really well :) There's a LOT of work, but it's very interesting and enjoyable :)
I'm not sure on the full 5 years syllabi (it changes a bit), but this sem we've done biochem, basic anatomy (nervous system, bones, vasculature, etc.), a lot of sociology and ethics (Monash encourages this a lot more than most unis do - taking a holistic approach), basic pharmacology, basic immunology and basic clinical skills (injections, taking histories, blood pressures, heart rates, temperatures) :)
Next sem we build on those + dissect cadavers :D
Overall, a 5 year course to graduate with the degree, from there most students do an internship (and then work a registrar for some time) :)
-
Oh thats great! ;D Best of luck with it. I am pretty excited.
-
i am going to hate dissecting cadevers
i also dislike site visits =.=
-
I hope they don't stink. Indian uni's take more of a practical approach in med from day 1, you are pretty much dissecting and meeting patients the day you start med.
-
Practical approach to med might be a good thing, depends on if you intend on being a clinical doctor after you graduate :P
-
Yea, i think you are right paul. :) Patient- Doctor interaction is crucial in the process of becoming a doctor as well as practical skill of course haha.
-
But you have to remember that not every graduate will end up becoming a clinical doctor, Academic Medicine and Public Health, amongst other areas, aren't very clinically based :P
-
Yes, that is also true. I guess others will have to adapt to this method of learning. For me i plan on specialising in General medicine. I have always wanted to be a General Practitioner, helping patients, prescribing medicine etc was always a passion for me. Who knows how it will turn out i might change my mind after going through medical school and maybe prefer another specialty.
-
Clinical component is pretty important, the vast majority of students will work clinically and everyone will do some time in that environment.
Dissections can be confronting for some people but 5 minutes in everybody is OMG AWESOME and it goes away
-
Any idea of what the hardest/worst dissection is in med?
-
Hardest and worst are two different things but pelvis is probably pretty close to the top for both.
-
What year med are you doing Russ?
-
1st
Did my anatomy in undergrad though