ATAR Notes: Forum
Archived Discussion => VTAC Offers => Results Discussion => Victoria => 2012 => Topic started by: 91.35 on February 06, 2012, 11:25:20 am
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Hi guys, got an atar of 91.35 got into Bachelor of Science at UoM. Unfortunately didn't make it into Biomedicine as it was my first preference. I would just like to know whether doing science at melbourne is the best course for me if i am planning to get into medicine in the future. Most of friends think science at melbourne isn't that great and i could get into something better.All of my friends got around the low 90's and are all studying engineering at monash. So whats the best course for me with my atar that is a pathway into medicine? My umat was great either got 52 53 50, so any chance interstate for direct medicine perhaps? Its a bit late to be asking this, but i was overseas when i got my offer.
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You can structure your science degree so it is very similar to the biomed degree and it is more flexible, so i would say stick with science :)
Also what is their reason for it being 'not that great'?
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^Don't want to diss Melb. science course, ofc, but I reckon his friends said that because its really hard to get into postgraduate med at Melbourne. There's not a lot of spaces available (I think it was around 200 - 250 ish per year), so its really competitive and understandably, its quite hard to compete with the UoM biomed people for those medicine spots.
Don't give up OP, best bet is to study hard doing biomed subjects in the science degree, best of luck for postgrad med.
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TBH there's not a lot of difference between a BSci and a BBiomed at Melbourne except for the name. There are one or two majors only available to biomed students, but for the most part, you can structure your BSci exactly like a BBiomed and graduate with the same major. In fact, you have more freedom in Science to study subjects that aren't in biomed (eg. some maths, physics...) which would be fun if you're interested in that stuff. If you majored in something like bioengineering systems in your science degree, you would be able to cover prereqs for postgrad med and engineering, so if med doesn't work out for you, you have another career path to fall back on.
There's nothing wrong with a science degree, but in terms of careers, it's highly competitive to get into postgrad courses, so you really need to work your butt off if you're not a top student. I think that's where most of the complaints arise from - kids are often stranded at the end of their degree. For the most part, though, you can do it if you put in the work.
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what major should i take if i want the option to go into med or engineering at the end of my science of degree? Just incase if medicine doesn't work out? And as for the best course, what would you guys recommend i get into with my atar 91.35? is science the best option for me or could i do biomes else were with my atar?
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...If you majored in something like bioengineering systems in your science degree, you would be able to cover prereqs for postgrad med and engineering, so if med doesn't work out for you, you have another career path to fall back on...
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Might as well take a Masters of Engineering after the B. Sci if you don't get into med.
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I think it's just as likely that you'll get into MD from a BSc as a BBioMed, the only reason people think that it's easier to get into it off BBioMed is because the BioMed cohort is generally stronger (higher ATAR) and hence, more of them will get through. However, it's based on GPA, GAMSAT and Interview. I still reckon it's easier to get a higher GPA in Science as you can choose subjects which are "easy" (i.e. choose like Calculus instead of Accelerated Maths) :P
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the only reason people think that it's easier to get into it off BBioMed is because the BioMed cohort is generally stronger (higher ATAR) and hence, more of them will get through.
The UoM Biomed cohort is the strongest Undergrad cohort bar none. Anywhere.
It contains no fewer than 40 Chancellor's Scholars who are guaranteed entry into the MD
Many of the remainder have declined opprtunities to do undergrad Medicine elsewhere and have even torn up scholarship offers at other Universities.
They have proven themselves at VCE they are CONFIDENT that they can COMPETE and prove themselves again as undergraduates.
This is what it takes to compete for a spot at Australia's only World Class Medical School.
As it should be.
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But the MHS twins gave up their chancellor scholar's to do Monash Med? Sure Melbourne Biomed is good and all, but I reckon MonashClayton MBBS is on par with the Melbourne Biomed.
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Let me say this, even though getting into postgrad Med is hard, with hard work and persistence, you should be able to get into it. My sister and a bunch of her friends all did a Bsc. They weren't people who had photographic minds, or people who could pick up new content extremely quickly. They were just a bunch of really hardworking people, in that throughout their course, especially the final year, they could be seen studying at the library until closing time. (Even the guards knew their names....)
All 5 out of 5 of them got into postgrad med, although only 2 of them got it at Melb. Others got a place at usyd, or other unis. (Can't Remember) The friend that was offered a place at Usyd had a H2B average (which I believe should be achievable if work is put into it), but with a good GAMSAT and interview. (which they also practised heaps for).
When they started uni, a couple of them were in a similar scenario as you, doubtful of getting into postgrad Med. (One of them had a 85+ ENTER, and I remember that my sis flunked the UMAT with a really low percentile). However, after 3 years of hard work, their efforts were paid off.
So, just try and believe that postgrad Med is a possible course for you, and work really really hard towards this goal. With enough effort, you will see the results of it =)
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But the MHS twins gave up their chancellor scholar's to do Monash Med? Sure Melbourne Biomed is good and all, but I reckon MonashClayton MBBS is on par with the Melbourne Biomed.
Monash MBBS > Melbourne Biomed.
If I'd got an off I'd be going there. It takes less time and you don't have to waste your time worrying about your GPA or GAMSAT.
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But the MHS twins gave up their chancellor scholar's to do Monash Med? Sure Melbourne Biomed is good and all, but I reckon MonashClayton MBBS is on par with the Melbourne Biomed.
There are some who did, and I can understand that Monash MBBS suits certain types.
But UoM has an army of Chancellor's Scholars at Biomed plus many more who chose the UoM BSc/MD path (good choice).
Because as I said, Australia has ONLY one World Class Medical School, the UoM School of Medicine
(or perhaps 1.5 World Class Medical schools if you count Sydney University).
Thats how it is
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the only reason people think that it's easier to get into it off BBioMed is because the BioMed cohort is generally stronger (higher ATAR) and hence, more of them will get through.
The UoM Biomed cohort is the strongest Undergrad cohort bar none. Anywhere.
Actually, Latrobe Dentistry would take that title, if by "strong" you mean solely by ATARs (I think the new cut-off became 99.05?). The Monash MBBS isn't far off either (not as high as Latrobe Dent), we have a median of ~99.30 ATAR, that's that's pretty strong too. With the amount of SEAS applicant UoM Biomed takes in, it's median would be lower than both of those cohorts.
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Because as I said, Australia has ONLY one World Class Medical School, the UoM School of Medicine
(or perhaps 1.5 World Class Medical schools if you count Sydney University).
Thats how it is
...says who?
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the only reason people think that it's easier to get into it off BBioMed is because the BioMed cohort is generally stronger (higher ATAR) and hence, more of them will get through.
The UoM Biomed cohort is the strongest Undergrad cohort bar none. Anywhere.
It contains no fewer than 40 Chancellor's Scholars who are guaranteed entry into the MD
Many of the remainder have declined opprtunities to do undergrad Medicine elsewhere and have even torn up scholarship offers at other Universities.
They have proven themselves at VCE they are CONFIDENT that they can COMPETE and prove themselves again as undergraduates.
This is what it takes to compete for a spot at Australia's only World Class Medical School.
As it should be.
Sounds like you've been fed a lot of propaganda from Melb uni to be honest.
Monash MBBS is probably one of the most competitive courses in Victoria to get into, especially with most people not wanting to spend an extra 2 years studying + GAMSAT/Interview stress just to end up in the exact same internship as their Monash counterparts. Besides, both uni's are Go8, both courses are excellent, and nearly all the people I know from MHS who were offered both picked Monash MBBS over Chancellors @ Melb Biomed. The undergraduate cohort is no doubt excellent, but from what I've seen it's mostly comprised of people who didn't make it into Monash MBBS.
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and nearly all the people I know from MHS who were offered both picked Monash MBBS over Chancellors @ Melb Biomed.
Just to back this up, the final count was: 1 UoM Chancellors Biomed to 5 Monash MBBS :)
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the only reason people think that it's easier to get into it off BBioMed is because the BioMed cohort is generally stronger (higher ATAR) and hence, more of them will get through.
The UoM Biomed cohort is the strongest Undergrad cohort bar none. Anywhere.
It contains no fewer than 40 Chancellor's Scholars who are guaranteed entry into the MD
Many of the remainder have declined opprtunities to do undergrad Medicine elsewhere and have even torn up scholarship offers at other Universities.
They have proven themselves at VCE they are CONFIDENT that they can COMPETE and prove themselves again as undergraduates.
This is what it takes to compete for a spot at Australia's only World Class Medical School.
As it should be.
Sounds like you've been fed a lot of propaganda from Melb uni to be honest.
Monash MBBS is probably one of the most competitive courses in Victoria to get into, especially with most people not wanting to spend an extra 2 years studying + GAMSAT/Interview stress just to end up in the exact same internship as their Monash counterparts. Besides, both uni's are Go8, both courses are excellent, and nearly all the people I know from MHS who were offered both picked Monash MBBS over Chancellors @ Melb Biomed. The undergraduate cohort is no doubt excellent, but from what I've seen it's mostly comprised of people who didn't make it into Monash MBBS.
i get 99.75.. and still cant get into monash med.. zzz at fail umat and fail interview
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No way is UoM BBioMed anywhere near as strong as Monash MBBS. Melbourne takes in A LOT of BBioMed students. A very small number of them are Chancellor's Scholars. On top of that, they take a ridiculous number of SEAS applicants. La Trobe dentistry has a stronger cohort and Monash MBBS would have a cohort just as strong, 99+ ATAR median, no doubt.
Because as I said, Australia has ONLY one World Class Medical School, the UoM School of Medicine
(or perhaps 1.5 World Class Medical schools if you count Sydney University).
Thats how it is
oh stfu & gtfo! what do you define as "World Class?" and sources please!
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La Trobe dentistry has a stronger cohort and Monash MBBS would have a cohort just as strong, 99+ ATAR median, no doubt.
De Nile is a river in North Africa.
UoM has approx 45+ Chancellor's Scolars in Biomed plus a dozen or more in BSc who have chosen a different (perhaps more entertaining) path to the MD.
Monash might have half a dozen of equivalent standard. Personally I am aware of 4.
Therefore the Monash MBBS cohort is equivalent, and can only be legitimately compared to the second tier of the UoM Biomed cohort, namely those who are not Chancellor's scholars.
The Monash MBBS cohort and the second tier UoM Biomed cohort are of equivalent (ATAR) strength.
But I still rate the second tier UoM Biomed higher than Monash MBBS.
Why? Because the majority had a choice of Undergrad security at Monash but they chose the NO-GUARANTEE option of UoM Biomed.
This to me proves a cohort of confident go-getters.
In short, exactly the sort of cohort which deserves a shot at Australia's only World Class Medical School. The UoM MD
Cheers.
.
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La Trobe dentistry has a stronger cohort and Monash MBBS would have a cohort just as strong, 99+ ATAR median, no doubt.
De Nile is a river in North Africa.
UoM has approx 45+ Chancellor's Scolars in Biomed plus a dozen or more in BSc who have chosen a different (perhaps more entertaining) path to the MD.
Monash might have half a dozen of equivalent standard. Personally I am aware of 4.
Therefore the Monash MBBS cohort is equivalent, and can only be legitimately compared to the second tier of the UoM Biomed cohort, namely those who are not Chancellor's scholars.
The Monash MBBS cohort and the second tier UoM Biomed cohort are of equivalent (ATAR) strength.
But I still rate the second tier UoM Biomed higher than the Monash Biomed.
Why? Because the majority had a choice of Undergrad security at Monash but they chose the NO-GUARANTEE option of UoM Biomed.
This to me proves a cohort of confident go-getters.
In short, exactly the sort of cohort which deserves a shot at Australia's only World Class Medical School. The UoM MD
Cheers.
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lol dude are you trolling, just about everyone who gets into Monash MBBS has to have high 99's + high UMAT + good interview, the only people who get in with sub 99 have amazing UMAT's.... It sounds like you're employed at Melbourne, no doubt Biomed has a very strong cohort as evidenced by a 99.00 cut-off, but lets be honest, most of the people in there are only there because they weren't 100% sure on medicine or couldn't get into Monash straight up.
Chancellor's scholars just means they got what, 99.90? There are plenty at Monash with 99.90 and 99.95, in fact a higher proportion of 99.90 and 99.95 students choose Monash then any other university in the state.
FYI, "Of the top 5% of high school graduates in Victoria, more choose Monash than any other institution. In 2010, almost half of the top 5% of high school leavers chose to attend Monash - the highest of any Victorian university by quite some margin.[37] In 2009, among students with a "perfect" ENTER score of 99.95 (i.e. students in the top 0.05% of high school applicants), 63 made an application for Monash".
sources: "Monash University Annual Report". Monash.edu.au. Retrieved 2011-12-22.
^ "Monash Memo printable version - 11 February 2009". Monash.edu.au. Retrieved 2 May 2010.
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Alright, let's take a look at some VTAC Selection data!
This shows that there is 42 UoM BBioMed Scholars'
(http://i42.tinypic.com/1zgxljl.jpg)
This shows that there is 388 BBioMed (let's not count Non-Y12)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/257dhs0.jpg)
However, we shall also take a look at the 3rd Last column. You can't see it here, but it says "2012 Round 1 % of Offers Below Clearly-in ATAR". This means that 56% of UoM BBioMed students had an ATAR below 99.00.
Now, let's assume the best case scenario for UoM BBioMed. Let's assume that of the 42 in Chancellor's, 21 got 99.95 and 21 got 99.90. We shall also assume that 44% of those in the normal program have 99.85 and the rest have 98.95. Agree that this is an ideal situation? Ok, let's work out the averages.
Mean = 99.40
Median = 98.95
Now, how about we move over to La Trobe Dentistry
(http://i39.tinypic.com/bdps9f.jpg)
A very high percentage of them got above the clearly in of 98.40. That means that no matter how you look at it, the median will be around 98.95 or greater, unless there was a strong concentration at the 98.40 - 98.95 mark. Furthermore, we used the best case scenario for UoM BBioMed.
Therefore, La Trobe Dentistry > UoM BBioMed.
QED
Now, let's move onto the issue of Monash Med.
Why would you want to do a BBioMed (Non-Chancellor's) if you got into MBBS at Monash?
The probability of you getting into the MD is ridiculously low. There are 255 CSP places. Around 55 of them will be taken by BSc + BBioMed (Chancellor's) students. So 200 places. 388 BBioMed + x BSc + Other Uni Undegrads? Pr(MD|BBioMed) < 0.5
QED
Last point, what is with you and being obsessed with the UoM MD program? What is this World Class business? What is World Class? Is that even correct and technical terminology? Who says Monash students can't practice overseas?
QED
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Argo, stop trolling. Now.
And fyi, a LOT of the 99,95ers are in Monash med. Melb had to go down to <99.90 to fill up places for Chancellors.
And last years cohort, there were 20 99.95ers in monash med and median ATAR was 98.95 (99.3 if we count only metro unbonded students)
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Argo, stop trolling. Now.
And fyi, a LOT of the 99,95ers are in Monash med. Melb had to go down to <99.90 to fill up places for Chancellors.
And last years cohort, there were 20 99.95ers in monash med and median ATAR was 98.95 (99.3 if we count only metro unbonded students)
^+1
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Argo, stop trolling. Now.
And fyi, a LOT of the 99,95ers are in Monash med. Melb had to go down to <99.90 to fill up places for Chancellors.
And last years cohort, there were 20 99.95ers in monash med and median ATAR was 98.95 (99.3 if we count only metro unbonded students)
Checkmate.
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Monash pride right there, nice. :)
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Pr(MD|BBioMed) < 0.5
I totally agree with you
Begs the obvious question.
Why do people who are otherwise qualified for Monash MBBS security opt for the risky UoM Biomed path?
There can only be one answer.
The see UoM MD as the main game
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Except people who get into Monash MBBS instead of Melb Biomed (bar Chancellor's) or Science 99.9% of the time choose Monash MBBS.
Even the number of people who chose Monash MBBS over Melbourne Chancellor's Scholars (which has GUARANTEED entry into melbourne MD, so is not a risky path) massively outnumbers those the other way around. In particular, out of the people who want to do med and got 99.95, all but 1 (mchli) chose Monash Med.
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I've personally haven't heard of anyone forgoing MBBS at Monash for BBioMed (non-chancellor) at UoM. In fact, you can't even do that! If Monash MBBS was higher, you would get into that. If BBioMed was higher, you wouldn't even know if you got into MBBS or not. (Higher in the preference list for VTAC)
The only option is to irregular for BBioMed, and I'm sure, not many will do that :P
Why do people see UoM as the main game? Explain please!
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Why do people see UoM as the main game? Explain please!
Sheer weight of numbers.
Thushan (god bless him) is one of a handful Chancellor's Scholars calibre students who opted for Monash.
The overwhelming majority (approx 60 all told) went for MD
There's got to be something in that stat :)
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The Monash MBBS cohort and the second tier UoM Biomed cohort are of equivalent (ATAR) strength.
btw just wanna point out if you're gonna compare cohorts at uni in terms of ATAR scores, then your comparison holds no credibility, ATAR scores mean jack shit at university, a 99.95 means nothing
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btw just wanna point out if you're gonna compare cohorts at uni in terms of ATAR scores, then your comparison holds no credibility, ATAR scores mean jack shit at university, a 99.95 means nothing
You don't know how awesome you are.
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Sheer weight of numbers.
Thushan (god bless him) is one of a handful Chancellor's Scholars calibre students who opted for Monash.
The overwhelming majority (approx 60 all told) went for MD
There's got to be something in that stat :)
That's a fallacy. So if you're saying that everyone speeds then somehow speeding is seen as acceptable and the way to go? No, I don't think so.
You can't just say that since there's a large number of students wanting to go with that pathway, that it makes that pathway a good one.
Also, I know a lot of 99.90's and 99.95's, even ask Thushan, I could probably name up to around 8 up the top of my head.
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a 99.95 means nothing
99.95 is huge
Almost as big as making the first 18 :)
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yup just like my first A+ in primary school was huge, it was so indicative of my abilities in highschool :)
cant tell if you're trolling or what but incase you misinterpreted, a 99.95 means nothing at university, yeah okay it means you're a sikkent at VCE, but welcome to reality at university ;)
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yup just like my first A+ in primary school was huge, it was so indicative of my abilities in highschool :)
You did all right :)
As for your other question, I dont particularly care which Medical course people choose.
I have always been one of those 'Please God anything but Medicine' people.
You seem to be likewise.
But I have pondered over the Monash MBBS/UoM Biomed question.
Take someone like your good self.
A solid 99.75 ATAR.
What is it that makes people of that calibre choose the uncertainty of UoM/Biomed over the certainty of Monash MBBS?
There has got to be a logical explanation.
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TrueTears - agree with you 100%.
Argo - hold your horses mate, you're over interpreting! Firstly, not all the Chancellors' Scholars people want to do Medicine. Secondly, they may have opted for Chancellors' Scholars because they're not entirely sure whether they want to do med. Thirdly, the people who chose Chancellors' Scholars over Monash Med were generally 99.90ers, so they had the awesome scholarship from Melbourne, but not the more awesome one from Monash. Fourthly, you forget that many people are doing melbourne biomed because they didn't get INTO monash med. People with ATARs around 99.7-99.8 may not get into Monash med on account of UMAT and interview!
As programs, I can say that both the Melbourne and the Monash medical programs are excellent, and Monash is also bringing in some new innovations into their medical program.
Also, speaking of world standard, if you do either degree and go to the US to practice, either way you're gonna have to sit the USMLE - the licensing examinations. Plus, if you are practising as a doctor, trust me when I say, international medical graduates have it so hard that it doesn't matter what Aussie uni you go to, and most medical graduates practise in Australia, where alma mater means nothing.
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Have you ever considered the following flaws in your logic:
a) Who says every single BBiomed Chancellor's student wants to do MD after? I have a friend who is doing BBiomed Chancellor's because she wants to do Biomedical Engineering afterwards - she has zero interest in the MD. There are doubtless more amongst the numbers in a similar situation, or at the very least, some who are "keeping their options open".
b) Not every 99.90+ student would have necessarily had the UMAT/interview/etc. to get into MBBS at Monash. For someone in that situation, the BBiomed with guaranteed MD is a safer choice - or perhaps they applied for MBBS and didn't get in, maybe didn't even get an interview. I imagine that there are plenty of kids who aren't sure they want to do Med, and are taking an option that let's them test the waters before taking the plunge. In the case of 99.90ers, the prospect of a full scholarship and no HECS for BBiomed + guaranteed CSP place for MD is a lot more attractive than not even being sure whether you'll get into MBBS, let alone receive a scholarship.
c) Some people choose this option to pursue their interests and receive academic enrichment. My 99.95er friend got 100 percentile UMAT and was obviously eligible for MBBS at Monash, but chose to take Chancellor's Scholars Science at Melbourne. Why? FOR FUN. She is in the fortunate position of being able to do a course for her own enjoyment and intellectual stimulation. If I had gotten a 99.90+, I would've faced a similar dilemma of choosing between MBBS (practical option, leads to career in 5 years), or BSci + MD (fun option :D).
What is it that makes people of that calibre choose the uncertainty of UoM/Biomed over the certainty of Monash MBBS?
It's the other way around: for someone with 99.90+, UoM is guaranteed, MBBS is not. I've seen a few high ATAR kids whose chances at getting into MBBS were compromised by their UMAT scores + interview.
d) Define 'World Class'.
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Guys, guys, guys... Settle. What argonaut is trying to say is had it not been for Melbourne medicine taking 2 years longer than Monash, than most would've chosen UoM undoubtedly. Apart from Melbourne and ANU, no one would have a clue about Monash's existence, internationally that is, (but who cares). And like come on who the hell wants to go to University in Clayton, that God forsaken place in woop woop.
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I think we should all just sit down and have a whiskey. Take a load off and smile.
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Word on the street is that Melbourne's Medical School is the best in Australia. Probably makes more sense as a choice if you want to pursue higher level research. I've also been told by students in later year Monash MBBS and UNSW MBBS that the Monash Med course cuts a lot of corners, and isn't as comprehensive/well taught as some of the other top-tier ones.
I recommended one of my students (99.90) who got into both ChScholars and MBBS to go MBBS. Reasoning? He knew he just wanted to practice, and that he wanted to be a doctor for the sake of helping the community. If that's what you want, then Monash makes perfect sense as a choice - why bother using an extra year if you're just after the vocation?
Long story short, accept each degree for what it really is. If you want prestige and what is possibly a more enriching education, Melbourne is better. If you want the job, and a chance to get into the 'real world' faster, go Monash. Sounds fair? Cool story EZ.
I would now join Mech in consuming a tumbler of whiskey. Chillax guys.
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Guys, guys, guys... Settle. What argonaut is trying to say is had it not been for Melbourne medicine taking 2 years longer than Monash, than most would've chosen UoM undoubtedly. Apart from Melbourne and ANU, no one would have a clue about Monash's existence, internationally that is, (but who cares). And like come on who the hell wants to go to University in Clayton, that God forsaken place in woop woop.
This, I agree with. If Melb had undergrad Med, I would pick it over Monash because of the quality and recognition of Melbourne degrees, as well as their focus on research. The Melb MD is far more research-oriented in comparison to Monash MBBS, which is very clinically-oriented.
If I'd gotten into Chancellor's Scholars Program, I would've probably taken it. Mostly because I would've loved a chance to study more maths/chem/etc., do some breadth and chillax.
What I disagree with in this conversation is argonaut's generalisations, and claim that Melbourne has the only world-class Med degree in Australia. Monash may not be great in other areas (eg. commerce, science, arts...), but the Med faculty is generally considered to be one of the better Med faculties in Australia. Similarly, the Monash Engineering faculty seems to have recently upped it's game. 5 years ago, I wouldn't have considered studying at Monash much. I would've gone to Melb Uni. The Melbourne Model changed things though. I have mixed feelings - love the breadth component, hate the idea of highly competitive postgrad courses with no guaranteed CSP that are undergrad at other unis.
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Guys, guys, guys... Settle. What argonaut is trying to say is had it not been for Melbourne medicine taking 2 years longer than Monash, than most would've chosen UoM undoubtedly. Apart from Melbourne and ANU, no one would have a clue about Monash's existence, internationally that is, (but who cares). And like come on who the hell wants to go to University in Clayton, that God forsaken place in woop woop.
This, I agree with. If Melb had undergrad Med, I would pick it over Monash because of the quality and recognition of Melbourne degrees, as well as their focus on research. The Melb MD is far more research-oriented in comparison to Monash MBBS, which is very clinically-oriented.
If I'd gotten into Chancellor's Scholars Program, I would've probably taken it. Mostly because I would've loved a chance to study more maths/chem/etc., do some breadth and chillax.
What I disagree with in this conversation is argonaut's generalisations, and claim that Melbourne has the only world-class Med degree in Australia. Monash may not be great in other areas (eg. commerce, science, arts...), but the Med faculty is generally considered to be one of the better Med faculties in Australia. Similarly, the Monash Engineering faculty seems to have recently upped it's game. 5 years ago, I wouldn't have considered studying at Monash much. I would've gone to Melb Uni. The Melbourne Model changed things though. I have mixed feelings - love the breadth component, hate the idea of highly competitive postgrad courses with no guaranteed CSP that are undergrad at other unis.
You say you disagree with me, and yet you have argued MY case better than I have
If I had to pick a case study in support of my argument, you would be IT.
I rest my case
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This is what it takes to compete for a spot at Australia's only World Class Medical School.
As it should be.
Take your blindfold off and take a look outside. You'd be surprised.
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My dad teaches 1st year medicine at University of Melbourne, hopefully he can put in a good word for me to get me into the MD course.
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My dad teaches 1st year medicine at University of Melbourne, hopefully he can put in a good word for me to get me into the MD course.
Haha, I wouldn't count on that happenning, it would be quite unfair if that was possible. I doubt that he'll be able to put in any good words about you. Firstly, your GPA would be set, so there's nothing he can do about that. Similarly, the GAMSAT would be set. The only place where he can make an impact is the interview. But since it's MMI, I doubt that he would be able to influence anyone to give you a higher mark. I do believe that is illegal. So essentially your interview mark will remain set as well.
Hence, it really won't make much difference.
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My dad teaches 1st year medicine at University of Melbourne, hopefully he can put in a good word for me to get me into the MD course.
LOLOLOL ;D Another Paul Greenfield case perhaps!
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That crushed my dreams slightly, doesn't matter i was expecting that. Regardless, planning on studying my ass off to make it to medicine. My dad can still teach me and help me out here and there in the science degree.
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That crushed my dreams slightly, doesn't matter i was expecting that. Regardless, planning on studying my ass off to make it to medicine. My dad can still teach me and help me out here and there in the science degree.
That sounds better :) Your dad will be there to help you out and hopefully he can provide you with tips that other students won't get. :)
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That crushed my dreams slightly, doesn't matter i was expecting that. Regardless, planning on studying my ass off to make it to medicine. My dad can still teach me and help me out here and there in the science degree.
+1
Way to go mate ;)
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yeah... I think if csbbiomed was 5 years then most people would choose UoM over Monash. what I do want to know is why mchli(?) chose csbbiomed over mbbs. just want to see his viewpoint...
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Quote mchli from another thread:
"(I wish I could quote everything that's been said so far)
After spending countless hours weighing up all the factors, considering all future pathways, I'm considering UoM as first pref.
This was a really tough decision but in the end, what got me was a combination of these factors:
Quality of the degree, Emphasis on research, Better opportunity for higher study overseas, Greater opportunity for postgraduate research, Stronger academic focus (+ other really minor things: location/breath/travel time etc.)
Personally, my end goal is to do a mixture of clinical work and research, something that aligns more closely with Melbourne than Monash.
(If I was in fact set on doing pure clinical work and was searching for an emphasis on the practical, then it would have been Monash without a doubt...)
Quote from: stonecold on December 21, 2011, 01:27:00 AM
At the end of the day, from a financial perspective, Monash is definitely the winner. In 7 years time you will have gotten 30k from your scholarship plus earned well over 100k as an intern and be debt free, whereas at UniMelb you will just be finishing your degree and still have around 25k of HECS debt remaining if you use your 15k from undergrad to pay it off.
However, in the long term/distant future, the deficit perhaps corresponds to 1 or 2 years of work (?). Also, there is a chance that Melbourne will have more graduate scholarships available in the future...
Samad/Istafa, I don't want this to affect your decisions - at the end of the day, the decision should be based on your personal situation, motivations and future aspiration.
Quote from: shinny on December 21, 2011, 01:12:14 PM
Go to different unis so we can use you two as a study on whether Monash or UoM makes a better doctor"
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This debate goes nowhere! :P
It's like basically all of those "which uni is better" threads. It's a personal choice which depends on your pursuits and interests. Neither Monash nor Melbourne are blatantly better. I just know that for my sake, Monash is the one which suits me more, so I would choose it even if I got a guaranteed MD.
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Quote mchli from another thread:
"(I wish I could quote everything that's been said so far)
After spending countless hours weighing up all the factors, considering all future pathways, I'm considering UoM as first pref.
This was a really tough decision but in the end, what got me was a combination of these factors:
Quality of the degree, Emphasis on research, Better opportunity for higher study overseas, Greater opportunity for postgraduate research, Stronger academic focus (+ other really minor things: location/breath/travel time etc.)
Personally, my end goal is to do a mixture of clinical work and research, something that aligns more closely with Melbourne than Monash.
(If I was in fact set on doing pure clinical work and was searching for an emphasis on the practical, then it would have been Monash without a doubt...)
Quote from: stonecold on December 21, 2011, 01:27:00 AM
At the end of the day, from a financial perspective, Monash is definitely the winner. In 7 years time you will have gotten 30k from your scholarship plus earned well over 100k as an intern and be debt free, whereas at UniMelb you will just be finishing your degree and still have around 25k of HECS debt remaining if you use your 15k from undergrad to pay it off.
However, in the long term/distant future, the deficit perhaps corresponds to 1 or 2 years of work (?). Also, there is a chance that Melbourne will have more graduate scholarships available in the future...
Samad/Istafa, I don't want this to affect your decisions - at the end of the day, the decision should be based on your personal situation, motivations and future aspiration.
Quote from: shinny on December 21, 2011, 01:12:14 PM
Go to different unis so we can use you two as a study on whether Monash or UoM makes a better doctor"
thanks, seems to me that breadth and research opportunities are the 2 main advantages.
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thanks, seems to me that breadth and research opportunities are the 2 main advantages.
pretty much.
for monash, the strengths are the shorter course, less debt, it's more clinically oriented learning, the family aspect of it (you spend 5 years with people who are almost certain to all graduate)...etc.
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So guys, with my atar 91.35, i am keen on doing medicine in the future. What course should i apply for that will have students around my atar rank. Cause science seem like a course anyone can do. I can still apply for irregular offer now.
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Science at Melbourne
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are you serious, there is nothing better for 91.35?
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If you're really serious about Medicine, yeah, no other way.
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are you serious, there is nothing better for 91.35?
Science at Melbourne is probably one of the best undergrad courses you could do if you wanted to get into Postgrad Med anyway lol.
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are you serious, there is nothing better for 91.35?
What do you mean by "better"? That's a very vague and subjective definition. Sure, there are other courses open to you! You can do Commerce, Arts, Law (At Deakin/La Trobe), Engineering, Computer Science, Health Science, Optometry (Deakin), Pharmacy...etc. I could keep going. But do you want to do them?
What it comes down to is what you want to study. If you want to study medicine, do the Bachelor of Science, if you want to do something else, it's probably too late now, but take a gap year and apply next year, you have a solid chance at any of the courses I listed above!
What course should i apply for that will have students around my atar rank. Cause science seem like a course anyone can do.
Science at Melbourne will have a lot of people with ATARs around you, if not higher, remember that the cutoff is around 90.00. I know of a 99.95-er who is doing Science at Melbourne.
No, Science is not a course anyone can do, it's a course which only the top 10% of the state can do (at UoM).
Even if you don't get into post-graduate medicine, you can work as a scientist (i.e. research assistant), you can pursue a career in academic sciences or you can look into other careers after another degree. Engineering (with a Masters of Engineering), teaching (DipEd), Optometry (O.D), Dentistry (DDS), Public Health, Speech Pathology, Physiotherapy...etc. By no means is Science a dead end or a bad degree :)
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I am just saying this because i know a few people who got into the Bachelor of Science that got as low as 83 on their atar. This makes me feel science isn't that great of a course.
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Hey, don't worry about it. Science at UoM is the best science undergraduate path for a variety of things in Victoria (well, except for engineering or med and other miscellaneous things). There's a lot of pathways that you can go into. And think about it, you're in the top 10% of the state. You should be happy about it.
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i thought you posted before saying that science is great if you are going to get into medicine afterwards.
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I am just saying this because i know a few people who got into the Bachelor of Science that got as low as 83 on their atar. This makes me feel science isn't that great of a course.
If you're going to be judgemental on ATAR scores, the cut off for science is around 90, therefore your score isn't 'that great' either.
The people that got in with 83 most likely had unfortunate circumstances which resulted in a lowered cutoff for them.
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I wasn't being judgemental. I just made that point because science has a weak cohort.
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Science has a strong cohort. Getting a 90 ATAR is really good u know.
For grad entry med, doesn't matter what course u do (out of science or biomed), they just look at ur GPA.
Also, for a science degree an ATAR cut of 90 is bloody high. The ATAR cut is not as high as say Law coz there are so many places!
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I wasn't being judgemental. I just made that point because science has a weak cohort.
Not sure what you're getting at. Most people in the course got your ATAR or above. If you think it's a weak cohort based on ATAR, then you fit in quite nicely.
Sorry to sound so rude, I'm hoping you'll understand that I think your logic is very flawed.
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I am just saying this because i know a few people who got into the Bachelor of Science that got as low as 83 on their atar. This makes me feel science isn't that great of a course.
You're judging how good a course is from the ATARs required for entrance? That's absurd. Firstly, entrance ATARs simply reflect, more than anything, the supply and demand relating to the course - not the course quality or the course difficulty.
If you think, as you seem to, that science is an 'easy' degree... well, go complete one and come back to me when you've done third year mathematics/physics/chemistry subjects (or any other third year science subjects, for that matter).
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By the way the difference between 85 and 90 is like 2 study scores per subject. Do you think if you got 2 less on every subject you'd classify yourself as weak?
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I am just saying this because i know a few people who got into the Bachelor of Science that got as low as 83 on their atar. This makes me feel science isn't that great of a course.
How does that make it feel as if science isn't that great of a course. Firstly the strength of the cohort doesn't count towards the quality of the course. It's about what you want from the course and whether the course is able to provide it. You want grad-med. Science can provide that pathway. How is that bad?
I wasn't being judgemental. I just made that point because science has a weak cohort.
To be perfectly honest and blunt, it doesn't. There are people with 99.95 who are doing Science at UoM (looks at Aurelian). It is NOT a weak cohort. Also, cohort strength is not dependent on ATARs. One of my friends got a relatively weak ATAR, but he got excellent scores in Chem and Physics (he was just unfortunate to get below 30 in his English). So are you saying he's weak because of that?
Because it's taken a few wishy-washy posts already, I'll say it like it is without trying to be nice or understanding:
Do you want to do graduate medicine or not? If so, 100% the best course for you is Science. Not just for you, but for most people who want to do graduate medicine. So stop complaining.
If you do not want to do graduate medicine, there are many other degrees you can choose from, now or after your BSc. I listed them above in my last post. So, you should choose a pathway and stop worrying and complaining about cohorts and other people.
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okay, thank you this cleared up everything. I always thought that courses that require low atars (since science originally asked for 85 as a cut off) are not good compared to ones that require higher atars in terms of quality.
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No worries.
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Cause science seem like a course anyone can do. I can still apply for irregular offer now.
I am just saying this because i know a few people who got into the Bachelor of Science that got as low as 83 on their atar. This makes me feel science isn't that great of a course.
I wasn't being judgemental. I just made that point because science has a weak cohort.
I really don't like your attitude to be honest. The others have explained the merits of Science I know, but that is a really narrow-minded perspective you have. There are people with <80 who would be completely content otherwise with your ATAR and course, for instance.
okay, thank you this cleared up everything. I always thought that courses that require low atars (since science originally asked for 85 as a cut off) are not good compared to ones that require higher atars in terms of quality.
It's a supply and demand thing. If everyone wants to get into Science, the clearly-in will go through the roof. If 1/10 of that put Science down then the clearly-in will go down. It's independent of quality.
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Had a quick browse of what has been said and i think the others have covered it, don't judge a book by it's cover. Same deal with courses, don't judge it by the clearly in score.
I am just saying this because i know a few people who got into the Bachelor of Science that got as low as 83 on their atar. This makes me feel science isn't that great of a course.
Ok um... I dont want to sound like im attacking you but in most courses there are reserved spots for SEAS students, these students have been disadvantaged in a way that has affected their year 12 studies. So how does this make it not a great course? Because students got in with a lesser atar? Big whoop imo
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Had a quick browse of what has been said and i think the others have covered it, don't judge a book by it's cover. Same deal with courses, don't judge it by the clearly in score.
I am just saying this because i know a few people who got into the Bachelor of Science that got as low as 83 on their atar. This makes me feel science isn't that great of a course.
Ok um... I dont want to sound like im attacking you but in most courses there are reserved spots for SEAS students, these students have been disadvantaged in a way that has affected their year 12 studies. So how does this make it not a great course? Because students got in with a lesser atar? Big whoop imo
Don't do the course because of what ATAR is required to get in, do it because you ENJOY IT! :)
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Someone linked me to these two:
the family aspect of it (you spend 5 years with people who are almost certain to all graduate)...etc.
I don't know what on earth you think is happening at UoM but if you replace the 5 with a 4... (or a 7 if you're a UoM undergrad...)
What I disagree with in this conversation is argonaut's generalisations, and claim that Melbourne has the only world-class Med degree in Australia. Monash may not be great in other areas (eg. commerce, science, arts...), but the Med faculty is generally considered to be one of the better Med faculties in Australia.
I guess it depends on how you define world class, but nobody should be arguing that UoM isn't the best medical school in the country.
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LOL! Russ, I have no idea what goes on at Melbourne, but at Monash, MUMUS (the med society) are absolutely awesome! And it seems as if we're having so much more fun than the other degrees!
Btw, what is world class? :S
And umm, I think UoM was the best medical school in the country, then they introduced the Melbourne Model.
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And it seems as if we're having so much more fun than the other degrees!
Well, I'm sure that generalization is definitely true.
Btw, what is world class? :S
Well that was what I was saying, it depends on how far you want to take the definition, but the UoM medical school has always been ranked above the Monash one for as long as I've been checking rankings.
And umm, I think UoM was the best medical school in the country, then they introduced the Melbourne Model.
And what differences did this make to the quality/content of the course?
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A mod should lock this thread before it turns into a debate about which med school is better.
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I am just saying this because i know a few people who got into the Bachelor of Science that got as low as 83 on their atar. This makes me feel science isn't that great of a course.
At UoM? ATAR has nothing to do with quality, but everything to do with how desirable a course is. I believe the BSc is the most popular degree at Melbourne (if not, Arts). It has a high demand - with the few exceptions of SEAS applicants - and therefore a high ATAR. You are presenting an asinine point. Those people you are implicitly belittling as getting an eighty three, have the potential to trample all over you in university with the attitude you have. Part of me hopes it happens and knocks some humility into you. You have no idea what circumstances they had to endure and an eighty three is a wonderful score (and a high one at that).
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Mech is right, ATAR has nothing to do with quality, it's the demand of a course.
I don't understand why you single out one particular person with an 83 as their ATAR, do you know nothing about statistics? That person is a SEAS applicant and in some ways, you can consider them an outlier, which means that they shouldn't even be included in statistical calculations.
I hope the same as Mech, really, had you got a 99.00+ ATAR, your attitude might be somewhat forgiveable and understandable as you have a choice of other degrees with stronger cohorts (such as BBioMed), but with a 91.35, you'll probably be in the bottom 25% or so of UoM BSc students, so you can't exactly say that you're better than the majority of the cohort, so it's not as if you're in the top few, really don't look down on other people.
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I hope the same as Mech, really, had you got a 99.00+ ATAR, your attitude might be somewhat forgiveable and understandable as you have a choice of other degrees with stronger cohorts (such as BBioMed), but with a 91.35, you'll probably be in the bottom 25% or so of UoM BSc students, so you can't exactly say that you're better than the majority of the cohort, so it's not as if you're in the top few, really don't look down on other people.
But that is all purely within the parameters of the ATAR. That does not reflect someone's abilities to apply themselves in the future. I would not even say the attitude 91.35 is forgiveable even if he had an ATAR of ninety nine or greater. Be thankful you have the opportunities, embrace them and let others get on with their courses and lives without belittling them. Sure, humour aside - I get a lot about doing Arts -, but actually taking aim at someone over their ATAR trying to claim you are better equates to prick waving (or, as I have previously referred to it as, cock jousting).
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No, I know it's not forgivable, but at least his claims wouldn't be so outlandish. If you're in the bottom 25% of something, you generally don't have much of a right to put down the others.
It's hard to express, but I think you get my drift