ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => VCE English Studies => VCE Subjects + Help => VCE English & EAL => Topic started by: peterpan101 on November 17, 2012, 08:43:26 pm
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Is there anyway to find this out, I know it depends on the person but just generally ?
Films
Plays
Stories?
Thanks in advance
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The assessor reports each year state this data, check the text response and context sections and look for the table (usually directly above or below that table they'll state the texts with the highest mean score).
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/Pages/vce/studies/english/englishexams.aspx
What texts the state generally does well on doesn't hold much relevance to what texts you could do well on though.
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Yeah it means nothing. The correlation lies more between what texts the best English cohorts in the state do (MHS, Macrob, MGS, etc) and which texts score more highly.
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^I would argue that for good students, Shakespeare is often the way to go though. It's just easier to find depth and breadth to any argument, and to find good solid language to pick apart with The Bard. Hence why MHS/MGS at least always choose Shakers.
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At the same time I'd argue that a good student could find depth and sophisticated ideas to analyse in any text :P That being said, I see where you're coming from; my school and quite a few other weaker English cohorts choose texts like OTW because they're very basic. This is further compounded the fact that they've realised poor English students can't be bothered reading a novel/are unable to analyse one effectively, which is why nearly 20% of the state writes on On The Waterfront.
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At the same time I'd argue that a good student could find depth and sophisticated ideas to analyse in any text :P That being said, I see where you're coming from; my school and quite a few other weaker English cohorts choose texts like OTW because they're very basic. This is further compounded the fact that they've realised poor English students can't be bothered reading a novel/are unable to analyse one effectively, which is why nearly 20% of the state writes on On The Waterfront.
Note that I said "easier" - I also think that a good student could write on any text and potentially still do well. It's just that I for one would struggle to find enough meaning in, for instance, "The Old Man Who Read Love Stories" to write a 10/10 on it; it's just a lame text with little depth. A 10/10 is conceivable, just harder. :p
Something else to consider perhaps - it might be the case that writing on some texts will make it easier to get TOP tier marks as well. For instance, few schools which teach texts such as "The Old Man Who Read Love Stories" get very high English scores consistently, and so examiners (who have no doubt noticed this trend in the past, since they're mentioned in the examiners' reports) might subconsciously be disinclined to give an essay on said text a 10/10 or even a 9/10 as a result; after all, it would have to prove itself as an "outlier", rather than as the norm. In contrast, Shakespeare (as an example) is often taught by the best schools, and so an examiner would expect to find 9/10s and 10/10s, and would thus more likely give them, perhaps.
I know it's lame to play the guessing game like this, but speaking as somebody who has seen firsthand how subjective marking can often be influenced by psychological factors (both from my own experience as an English marker and student, and even in things such as debating) , I think this is appropriate (and even reasonable) to point out.
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No you're right. It's just that I assume this thread was made by a student who is aiming to get a 10/10, and in my opinion schools choose their texts with the relative strength of the entire cohort in mind. So a strong cohort would do most likely be doing Shakespeare and a weaker cohort might do OTW. But in both cases the top students in each cohort will have a near equal chance of achieving full marks if they study their texts effectively and write well, so it's not something the OP should worry about.
On the flip side of examiners maybe expecting to see a 10/10 come from a Shakespeare piece as opposed to an OTW piece, if you wrote a really good OTW essay which had an original take but was perhaps on the edge between a 9 and 10, and a particular examiner had to that point only read monotonous pieces on OTW which basically just repeated interpretations such as 'Terry's redemption is motivated by his love for Edie', this could tip you over, because you stand out from what is a very large crowd (long sentence oops).
The day you struggle to find meaning in anything, we're kinda screwed EZ :P
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Haha EZ I actually found that whilst The Old Man Who Read Love Stories is probably the worst film to watch, it's an excellent film for the purposes of VCE English and text response. :D
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Haha EZ I actually found that whilst The Old Man Who Read Love Stories is probably the worst film to watch, it's an excellent film for the purposes of VCE English and text response. :D
Hate hate hate hate hate it. Maybe my irrational hatred of the film prevents me from seeing anything analysable abut it. Still. :p
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Haha EZ I actually found that whilst The Old Man Who Read Love Stories is probably the worst film to watch, it's an excellent film for the purposes of VCE English and text response. :D
Hate hate hate hate hate it. Maybe my irrational hatred of the film prevents me from seeing anything analysable abut it. Still. :p
Hahaha really?! It's actually interesting when you think about it - notice how Rubicondo holds up the tooth and Antonio holds up the gem? This parallel could suggest that whilst the gem possesses natural beauty, its worth is overshadowed by the savagery of man, depicted through the rotten tooth etc... Do you still hate the film? Haha
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Haha EZ I actually found that whilst The Old Man Who Read Love Stories is probably the worst film to watch, it's an excellent film for the purposes of VCE English and text response. :D
Hate hate hate hate hate it. Maybe my irrational hatred of the film prevents me from seeing anything analysable abut it. Still. :p
Hahaha really?! It's actually interesting when you think about it - notice how Rubicondo holds up the tooth and Antonio holds up the gem? This parallel could suggest that whilst the gem possesses natural beauty, its worth is overshadowed by the savagery of man, depicted through the rotten tooth etc... Do you still hate the film? Haha
Yes. Rotten teeth symbolising human nature is lame. Even The Room is better. :p
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I refuse to believe that The Room is better than anything :P
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I refuse to believe that The Room is better than anything :P
You would be surprised - at least I enjoyed The Room. All The Old Man Who Read Love Stories made me want to do is fall asleep (literally - I had to restart the movie twice).
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I haven't seen it - save myself the pain, you reckon?
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No you're right. It's just that I assume this thread was made by a student who is aiming to get a 10/10, and in my opinion schools choose their texts with the relative strength of the entire cohort in mind. So a strong cohort would do most likely be doing Shakespeare and a weaker cohort might do OTW. But in both cases the top students in each cohort will have a near equal chance of achieving full marks if they study their texts effectively and write well, so it's not something the OP should worry about.
my school does both?
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No you're right. It's just that I assume this thread was made by a student who is aiming to get a 10/10, and in my opinion schools choose their texts with the relative strength of the entire cohort in mind. So a strong cohort would do most likely be doing Shakespeare and a weaker cohort might do OTW. But in both cases the top students in each cohort will have a near equal chance of achieving full marks if they study their texts effectively and write well, so it's not something the OP should worry about.
my school does both?
Study your texts, write essays and you'll get the marks you deserve. Remember, come exam time, you only have to choose one text to write on. If you study both texts to the best of your capacity, you'll have a better idea of which text you'd like to for exams!
It's interesting your school does both these texts though - your Head of the English Faculty might give you an insight into his/her reasoning :P
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It's interesting your school does both these texts though - your Head of the English Faculty might give you an insight into his/her reasoning :P
I'm guessing they might do OTW to appeal to the "weaker" students, and then Shakespeare to appeal to the "stronger" students.
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It's interesting your school does both these texts though - your Head of the English Faculty might give you an insight into his/her reasoning :P
I'm guessing they might do OTW to appeal to the "weaker" students, and then Shakespeare to appeal to the "stronger" students.
probably
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This is what I had to say on the topic 12 months ago. I have not changed my mind:
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regarding Text Response, the following are extracts from the past 4 Assessors Reports :
2011: The highest mean score for Section A was achieved by students who wrote on Richard III, A Human Pattern, Selected Poems (Slessor) , Ransom and A Farewell to Arms
2010: The highest mean score for Section A was achieved by students who wrote on Hard Times, Richard III, A Human Pattern, Selected Poems (Slessor) and A Farewell to Arms
2009: The highest mean scores for Section A were achieved by students who wrote on Hard Times, Richard III, Selected Poems (Slessor) and Collected Stories (Farmer)
2008: The highest mean scores were achieved by students who wrote on Hard Times, King Richard III, Selected Poems (Slessor) and Collected Stories (Farmer)
There is an obvious pattern there, right ?
My tip: if you have a choice of texts, pick the 'Classic'. There is stronger and more scholarly material out there to pick your ideas from.
For less classic books you end up using inferior material from Study Guides etc
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This is what I had to say on the topic 12 months ago. I have not changed my mind:
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regarding Text Response, the following are extracts from the past 4 Assessors Reports :
2011: The highest mean score for Section A was achieved by students who wrote on Richard III, A Human Pattern, Selected Poems (Slessor) , Ransom and A Farewell to Arms
2010: The highest mean score for Section A was achieved by students who wrote on Hard Times, Richard III, A Human Pattern, Selected Poems (Slessor) and A Farewell to Arms
2009: The highest mean scores for Section A were achieved by students who wrote on Hard Times, Richard III, Selected Poems (Slessor) and Collected Stories (Farmer)
2008: The highest mean scores were achieved by students who wrote on Hard Times, King Richard III, Selected Poems (Slessor) and Collected Stories (Farmer)
There is an obvious pattern there, right ?
My tip: if you have a choice of texts, pick the 'Classic'. There is stronger and more scholarly material out there to pick your ideas from.
For less classic books you end up using inferior material from Study Guides etc
shame the Shakespeare has changed
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If your choices include any of,
Bronte, Emily, Wuthering Heights
Dickens, Charles, A Christmas Carol
Shakespeare, William, Henry IV Part I
.....look no further
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If your choices include any of,
Bronte, Emily, Wuthering Heights
Dickens, Charles, A Christmas Carol
Shakespeare, William, Henry IV Part I
.....look no further
haha, the context of most of these texts (and the 'classics' you mentioned above) are so great for students especially because of the rich socio-historical setting they emanate from - really really sparked great class discussions in my case (studying A Christmas Carol)!
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If your choices include any of,
Bronte, Emily, Wuthering Heights
Dickens, Charles, A Christmas Carol
Shakespeare, William, Henry IV Part I
.....look no further
haha, the context of most of these texts (and the 'classics' you mentioned above) are so great for students especially because of the rich socio-historical setting they emanate from - really really sparked great class discussions in my case (studying A Christmas Carol)!
Nothing like good heated discussion to get you angry enough to smash the Text Response in the exam :)
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To be fair, A Christmas Carol is comparatively lacking in depth as far as Dickens goes. I wouldn't put it in the same category as Wuthering Heights (<33) or Henry IV.
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To be fair, A Christmas Carol is comparatively lacking in depth as far as Dickens goes. I wouldn't put it in the same category as Wuthering Heights (<33) or Henry IV.
Maybe, but then again Dickens is Dickens, and great minds have written about Dickens, and what VCE assessor would dare contradict great minds like Thackeray :
Here’s a bit of Thackeray’s review of A Christmas Carol from Fraser’s Magazine (1844):
Who can listen to objections regarding such a book as this? It seems to me a national benefit, and to every man or woman who reads it a personal kindness. The last two people I heard speak of it were women; neither knew the other, or the author, and both said, by way of criticism, ‘God bless him!’ . . . As for Tiny Tim, there is a certain passage in the book regarding that young gentleman, about which a man should hardly venture to speak in print or in public, any more than he would of any other affections of his private heart. There is not a reader in England but that little creature will be a bond of union between the author and him; and he will say of Charles Dickens, as the woman just now, ‘GOD BLESS HIM!’ What a feeling is this for a writer to be able to inspire, and what a reward to reap!
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To be fair, A Christmas Carol is comparatively lacking in depth as far as Dickens goes. I wouldn't put it in the same category as Wuthering Heights (<33) or Henry IV.
Maybe, but then again Dickens is Dickens, and great minds have written about Dickens, and what VCE assessor would dare contradict great minds like Thackeray :
Here’s a bit of Thackeray’s review of A Christmas Carol from Fraser’s Magazine (1844):
Who can listen to objections regarding such a book as this? It seems to me a national benefit, and to every man or woman who reads it a personal kindness. The last two people I heard speak of it were women; neither knew the other, or the author, and both said, by way of criticism, ‘God bless him!’ . . . As for Tiny Tim, there is a certain passage in the book regarding that young gentleman, about which a man should hardly venture to speak in print or in public, any more than he would of any other affections of his private heart. There is not a reader in England but that little creature will be a bond of union between the author and him; and he will say of Charles Dickens, as the woman just now, ‘GOD BLESS HIM!’ What a feeling is this for a writer to be able to inspire, and what a reward to reap!
It's a great text, but I agree that A Christmas Carol couldn't hold a candle to the other texts (such as Henry IV) that would offer so much more to stronger students, as far as complexity goes.
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My tip: if you have a choice of texts, pick the 'Classic'. There is stronger and more scholarly material out there to pick your ideas from.
For less classic books you end up using inferior material from Study Guides etc
I'm not going to generalise but I'd say the strong English students like wouldn't try to glean their ideas from study guides or scholarly material; it'd be based upon their own perceptions and analysis of the text upon their own individual readings, as well as in class discussion.
I stand by what I said previously; any student can get full marks or dreadful marks or anything in between on any text. You don't need a perfect text which has rich and soulful depth in all aspects in order to score a 50; I know a number of students who have scored 50s or high 40s writing on On the Waterfront and such texts.
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My tip: if you have a choice of texts, pick the 'Classic'. There is stronger and more scholarly material out there to pick your ideas from.
For less classic books you end up using inferior material from Study Guides etc
I'm not going to generalise but I'd say the strong English students like wouldn't try to glean their ideas from study guides or scholarly material; it'd be based upon their own perceptions and analysis of the text upon their own individual readings, as well as in class discussion.
I stand by what I said previously; any student can get full marks or dreadful marks or anything in between on any text.
I agree with what you're saying, but often scholarly material helps to consolidate and critique a student's interpretation. Additionally, sometimes the mere act of reading these scholarly articles helps in improving a student's vocabulary regarding metalanguage etc.
But yeah, you can do well or dreadful on any text, as you were saying.
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I guess it also depends on which book you enjoy the most and on the combination as well. Upon reflection I can tell that Interpreter of Maldadies and I&B+Growing Up Asian in Australia make an excellent combination and are really enjoyable.
I studied Cosi as well, but I really hated it, which is why I had no motivation to study it and hence would not have done well in it.
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It depends on what text you like discussing. Eg. I did The Reluctant fundamentalist (personally, I hate that book) but got a B+ on the sac. Twelve Angry Men (absolutely loved the book but freaked out on the sac as I couldn't order my thoughts) ended up getting a B+ as well. Decided to do TAM on the exam, and I enjoyed every second of it. Why? Because I learnt from my mistake in the Sac, and (hopefully) killed it in the exam room.