ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: golden on November 26, 2012, 09:33:17 am
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http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2012/11/26/02/00/naplan-stress-causes-vomiting-insomnia:
Stress-related vomiting and insomnia are affecting children in the lead-up to the National Assessment Program - Literacy and Numeracy (NAPLAN), a new study shows.
In the landmark University of Melbourne study, for which 8353 teachers and principals were surveyed, concerns about the "unintended side effects" of NAPLAN were raised.
These concerns included teaching to the test and a negative effect on student health and teacher morale, Fairfax reported.
About half the teachers surveyed said NAPLAN practice tests were held once a week in the five months leading up to the test.
About 90 per cent said some students felt stressed before the test, leading to crying, vomiting, insomnia and absenteeism.
Any opinions?
What about a study on VCE? Imagine how deep it can get.
With regard to the bolded part - I have honestly never heard of this before today.
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I think this is better, sooner or later, students are going to be exposed to high stakes testing, whether it be NAPLAN, VCE or university exams. Even after that the world is a cut throat place where you must compete. There's nothing wrong with competition itself. What's wrong is the way that teachers, students (and very often parents as well) take these high stakes exams. I think that's where the issue lies. But either way, the NAPLAN will prepare students for later exams such as VCE...etc.
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I think this is better, sooner or later, students are going to be exposed to high stakes testing, whether it be NAPLAN, VCE or university exams. Even after that the world is a cut throat place where you must compete. There's nothing wrong with competition itself. What's wrong is the way that teachers, students (and very often parents as well) take these high stakes exams. I think that's where the issue lies. But either way, the NAPLAN will prepare students for later exams such as VCE...etc.
But if they are kids in grade 3 then I don't think it's on. Maybe for year 9 students, but the rest are far too young to be exposed to so much stress
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I think this is better, sooner or later, students are going to be exposed to high stakes testing, whether it be NAPLAN, VCE or university exams. Even after that the world is a cut throat place where you must compete. There's nothing wrong with competition itself. What's wrong is the way that teachers, students (and very often parents as well) take these high stakes exams. I think that's where the issue lies. But either way, the NAPLAN will prepare students for later exams such as VCE...etc.
But if they are kids in grade 3 then I don't think it's on. Maybe for year 9 students, but the rest are far too young to be exposed to so much stress
I don't think Grade 3's would be vomiting and stuff, it would be more the Year 9's.
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Would anyone think it's more towards the 'super top tiers' for that matter? I am not suggesting this, rather just wondering.
About half the teachers surveyed said NAPLAN practice tests were held once a week in the five months leading up to the test.
They could have surveyed teachers from the same school, which may have skewed the results, but I find it hard to believe this is true having never heard about this - once a week in the five months leading up to the test?
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My teachers told us about NAPLAN (or AIMS tests back in the day) a couple of days before --> No explicit preparation from school at all! My teachers never "taught NAPLAN" - It sounds absurd!
Plus it was a "self selecting survey" therefore inherent bias?
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Suck it up, this is all just distorted misconstrued use of statistics. My guess is that they probably skewed the results I've had 10 nieces,nephews and cousins going through the NAPLAN and they did fine. No vomiting, no crying and definitely no insomnia. They were happy little campers. People need to wake up and not diminish the importance of homework and these tests. Maybe if we had a mindset akin to those of Finnish Students we wouldn't require this but we don't. Parents are just finding excuses for their children. I remember doing AIMS and not going through anything like this, heck the school didn't even prepare it for us and I managed to do considerably well , which was relative to the preparation I was given.
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I remember doing AIMS and not going through anything like this, heck the school didn't even prepare it for us and I managed to do considerably well , which was relative to the preparation I was given.
To be fair though, when we did the AIMS tests, it was basically a joke, the teachers didn't care and neither did the school. It was just time taken away from them that they could of used to be teaching.
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But if they are kids in grade 3 then I don't think it's on. Maybe for year 9 students, but the rest are far too young to be exposed to so much stress
Stress is what you make of it, it's not the NAPLAN's fault they are stressed. If they are stressed it is the fault of the parents and the teachers for blowing it up out of proportion. You can't blame the system when the system is not at fault. Students have been sitting tests in Grade 3 for ages and there seems to be no problems with that because it's not high profile. What needs to be done is that we need to teach kids that tests and exams are just that - tests and exams - I know personally I never really cared about how well I did on exams because I just think whatever I get I deserve, whatever happens happens and that's the attitude that we need to teach kids - that although exams matter and although they should try their best and give it their all, they shouldn't be stressed or disappointed, but see it as a source of continual improvement.
It's much better to expose kids to the elements early on, in a controlled environment such as school where they can develop and learn the skills required to cope with life. One of the faults of today's education system is that while it academically prepares people for the future very well, it doesn't prepare people well emotionally, especially in today's cut throat and competitive world.
And yes, I completely agree that this is one of the instances where parents are detrimental to their children's education - the issue with parents is that they're overly competitive, put high stakes on everything and often place unnecessary pressure on their kids to do well. Also, yes, they're usually whingers who can't accept that their kids didn't do well so pull every excuse out of the bag to deny it.
I don't think Grade 3's would be vomiting and stuff, it would be more the Year 9's.
It's not natural for either Grade 3s nor Year 9s to be vomiting and stuff - since when did kids care about standardised tests so much?
To be fair though, when we did the AIMS tests, it was basically a joke, the teachers didn't care and neither did the school. It was just time taken away from them that they could of used to be teaching.
And what has changed since the NAPLAN was introduced? Nothing - just parents being aware of it and putting pressure on their kids. The NAPLAN is exactly the same concept as the AIMS test, having looked at practice material for both.
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It's not natural for either Grade 3s nor Year 9s to be vomiting and stuff - since when did kids care about standardised tests so much?
It's like people vomiting before the GAT, it just doesn't happen. I will admit I've known a couple of people to be sick or upset before an exam, but not NAPLAN, AIMS or the GAT.
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Channel 9 isn't really the best or indepth news source.
The conversation is written by university academics and it's really great for these things, these people know what they're talking about.
They've written a fair few articles about the NAPLAN too, worth a read.
About 90 per cent of respondents said some students felt stressed before the test
.....leading to crying, vomiting, insomnia and absenteeism, Fairfax said on Monday.
I don't know if those two halves of the sentence are connected in the right way. I seriously doubt all of those 90% cried, vomited, stayed home from school or had insomnia.
Then there's this
Mr Garrett defended the NAPLAN regime, saying the survey only represented about three per cent of union members and did not represent the message he was getting from the coalface.
"There's a lot of teachers in Australia and this doesn't constitute a large number of them," he told ABC Television.
Anyway, love or loathe it, it looks like it's here to stay. The opposition is in favour of it too:
The opposition's education spokesman Christopher Pyne agreed NAPLAN was an important diagnostic tool, and teachers had to learn to use it properly.
"There's no reason to throw the NAPLAN out the window because the teachers are doing the wrong thing," he told Sky News.
"They shouldn't be teaching to the test, they should be teaching students just as they always do."
The NAPLAN is a diagnostic tool mostly. It's used to see how schools are performing overall for administrative reasons. IF schools are seriously under, then, it's clear there's something wrong. Likewise, if some schools are miles above the average, they just might be doing something right.
It's real useful for seeing where individual students are in their abilities (and if they need help) since it's a standardised test thats used around the country.
I think this is better, sooner or later, students are going to be exposed to high stakes testing, whether it be NAPLAN
I don't think the NAPLAN is a high-stakes test at all, its a diagnostic thing.
If anyone is looking upon it as a high-stakes test or something to be tutored for specifically, they're ruining the diagnostic purpose.
I highly doubt we should be preparing primary school kids for VCE or any other high-stakes test early on, you're not the same in year 9 as you were in year 2, kids mature, they grow, thats why everything is in phases. That kind of pressure can be rather unhealthy as well (see the chinese or korean education systems). In primary school you should be learning basic concepts about the world, socialising (learning to be social and how to act around other people is as important, if not more important as everything else in primary school) and just generally...you know..having a childhood.
The biggest problem here is teachers or even parents (cant imagine why) teaching to the test and things like that when it's clearly not for that purpose.
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The respondents are teachers AFAIK so they are talking about their students
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I'm not sure but this conversation article might be written by actual person who ran the study rather than a channel 9 journalist.
Worth a read.
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I highly doubt we should be preparing primary school kids for VCE or any other high-stakes test early on, you're not the same in year 9 as you were in year 2, kids mature, they grow, thats why everything is in phases. That kind of pressure can be rather unhealthy as well (see the chinese or korean education systems). In primary school you should be learning basic concepts about the world, socialising (learning to be social and how to act around other people is as important, if not more important as everything else in primary school) and just generally...you know..having a childhood.
Yes, but one of the issues with VCE is that students are suddenly exposed to high-stakes testing out of the blue. When you go to play poker, you don't go and sit at a high roller table on your first go, you'd probably start off by playing with friends, then move to placing bets and then gradually moving up at the casino starting from the $1/$2 games. It should be the same thing with high school, you can't just suddenly say "oh hey, these exams are the most important thing ever" when they're the first exams that really matter - students need to be introduced to the concept of exams from an early age and be prepared for the things that come.
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Just read this now and.. yeah:
since when did kids care about standardised tests so much?
Back when I did AIMS/NAPLAN, in Year 5 we were pretty heavily studying for this for about 3 months where we just learnt Maths and English (but then again you never learn Science in primary school :P) but we only did practice tests once every 2-3 weeks which I remember was a bit excessive compared to other schools...
But if they are kids in grade 3 then I don't think it's on. Maybe for year 9 students, but the rest are far too young to be exposed to so much stress
At my school nobody took NAPLAN seriously... phones were out during Spelling and I was allowed to use my graphics calculator for maths lol (I heard from my friend that they were all given graphics calculators to do the maths part [Only one question was needed for it though])
It's like the GAT... nobody takes it seriously and even now in Year 9 nobody takes NAPLAN seriously (Year 7 I think would be an exception though).
Although I agree with the exposure with these tests to help students prepare for VCE etc... my argument would be to actually make one that prepares you properly since NAPLAN is sort of a lame ::) (no offence)
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I think this is better, sooner or later, students are going to be exposed to high stakes testing, whether it be NAPLAN, VCE or university exams. Even after that the world is a cut throat place where you must compete. There's nothing wrong with competition itself. What's wrong is the way that teachers, students (and very often parents as well) take these high stakes exams. I think that's where the issue lies. But either way, the NAPLAN will prepare students for later exams such as VCE...etc.
I agree. I think some schools place extra pressure on their students for the sake of the school's "reputation" - many poorly-performing kids are often asked to stay at home on the day of the tests. These teachers seriously need to tone it down and help their students put things into perspective, and continue this through the schooling system.
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NAPLAN results are nothing more than public perception. The students generally don't care since the test/s have no relative meaning to them. The teachers and students at my high school never bothered with NAPLAN at all. It makes me laugh how some schools spend a ridiculous amount of money on preparation and then think that a good rank == achievement/bragging rights, considering many schools don't even have enough funding for extensive NAPLAN preparation.
The results are therefore meaningless for most schools. Sure it's a good indication to determine which schools are in serious trouble, but the idea that people stress out over the NAPLAN is sad. Is this what we consider education? Completing dozens and dozens of artificial exercises in the lead up to a pretty meaningless exam? And then you have all these companies popping up exploiting teachers and parents insecurities to make some money.
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propaganda. i cared about naplan, but i seriously doubt that grade 3, 5, 7 and 9 year olds would care so much about the outcome of NAPLAN to the extent of getting sick over it.
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I was actually quite surprised to hear about preparing students with practice texts months prior to AIM tests, or NAPLAN's as they label it nowadays.
My school never prepared us for it and even now from hearing students from junior year levels discussing it, teachers don't even set it up properly, in all, I saw the tests to be of no true significance to me, and just hearing about children crying over it made me question how they would react at VCE level.
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At my school nobody took NAPLAN seriously... phones were out during Spelling and I was allowed to use my graphics calculator for maths lol (I heard from my friend that they were all given graphics calculators to do the maths part [Only one question was needed for it though])
What the...
Yes, but one of the issues with VCE is that students are suddenly exposed to high-stakes testing out of the blue. When you go to play poker, you don't go and sit at a high roller table on your first go, you'd probably start off by playing with friends, then move to placing bets and then gradually moving up at the casino starting from the $1/$2 games. It should be the same thing with high school, you can't just suddenly say "oh hey, these exams are the most important thing ever" when they're the first exams that really matter - students need to be introduced to the concept of exams from an early age and be prepared for the things that come.
At my school, we were introduced into "high-stakes exams" in Year 9, with mid-year exams for each of our subjects. Sure, they were nothing compared to VCE, but it introduced us to some good study routines, such as doing practise exams under conditions (yeah, I did past exams for my Year 9-10 exams, lol), and revising our content every so often.
If teachers want to make the challenge of VCE exams seem less daunting, then introduce some subject exams by the middle of high school, which actually do have a writing time of approximately 1.5-2 hours.
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It makes me laugh how some schools spend a ridiculous amount of money on preparation and then think that a good rank == achievement/bragging rights, considering many schools don't even have enough funding for extensive NAPLAN preparation.
I'm not sure why kids and parents care about them so much (can you use them to get into good highschools or something? Idk) but theres a reason the schools care about it.
No school wants to have the infamy of having naplan scores near the bottom of the state.
NAPLAN scores are also posted on that "myschools" website where parents can compare schools. I'm sure many principals are worried about having low scores and that feeds down to the teachers as well.
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Ah, Year 3 Aims Test, my first troll ever :')
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It makes me laugh how some schools spend a ridiculous amount of money on preparation and then think that a good rank == achievement/bragging rights, considering many schools don't even have enough funding for extensive NAPLAN preparation.
I'm not sure why kids and parents care about them so much (can you use them to get into good highschools or something? Idk) but theres a reason the schools care about it.
No school wants to have the infamy of having naplan scores near the bottom of the state.
NAPLAN scores are also posted on that "myschools" website where parents can compare schools. I'm sure many principals are worried about having low scores and that feeds down to the teachers as well.
My friend was able to get a 90% Scholarship to my old private school by showing said school his Naplan Results as well as other academic achievement results. It can significantly enhance your chances.
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My friend was able to get a 90% Scholarship to my old private school by showing said school his Naplan Results as well as other academic achievement results. It can significantly enhance your chances.
Makes sense really. I don't see a way to fix that kind of thing though. If we suddenly scrap the NAPLAN, the same parents that would of pushed their kids to overdo it would just push them to do the same thing for the test that would conceivable replace it. The kind of parents that didn't really care about things like the testing/aims or getting scholarships before the NAPLAN will continue to do so anyway.
On another note, they might scrap the whole myschools thing (or at least not show the raw NAPLAN scores) http://www.theage.com.au/national/pyne-vows-to-scrap-my-school-rankings-20121126-2a3od.html .
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I'm not sure why kids and parents care about them so much (can you use them to get into good highschools or something? Idk) but theres a reason the schools care about it.
No school wants to have the infamy of having naplan scores near the bottom of the state.
NAPLAN scores are also posted on that "myschools" website where parents can compare schools. I'm sure many principals are worried about having low scores and that feeds down to the teachers as well.
Parents care about it because it's a part of many parents' nature to want their kids to perform well on standardised tests, regardless of whether it matters - it's a source of bragging - "my child got in the 99th percentile for the NAPLAN test - lalala" and also because they feel a sense of pride and achievement in what they do.
Kids care about NAPLAN because their parents and teachers are forcing them to care. Seriously, kids don't give a shit about standardised testing.
I honestly don't have a problem with schools being ranked by NAPLAN scores, it's just how schools can also be ranked by other factors including VCE scores, %ge study scores above 40, average VCE study score, amount of government funding, quality of its buildings, whether its classrooms have air-con (I will never go to a school without air-con again, ever!). But you get the point, NAPLAN scores are only raw data, they mean little but are open to interpretation.
Parents are the source of all of these problems, often too ill-informed to interpret statistical data properly, they think that high NAPLAN scores = better school, but they forget to consider other facts and the truth is this is what needs to be changed, attitudes.
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Studying for the NAPLAN defeats the purpose of it. By studying specifically for the NAPLAN you skew these results as they become a reflection of your child's ability to perform specifically for the test, rather than their general aptitude in the subject areas covered.
When 8 year olds are having panic attacks over simple weekly spelling tests as a result of the high-stakes environment surrounding NAPLAN, it's obvious something is seriously wrong with what we're doing. This is the true problem.
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About half the teachers surveyed said NAPLAN practice tests were held once a week in the five months leading up to the test.
Crap, that's harsher than VCE! This is where the problem is, what are they thinking?
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BUMP:
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/schools-caught-cheating-on-naplan-20130216-2ek6p.html
Doesn't surprise me at all tbh.
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Would anyone think it's more towards the 'super top tiers' for that matter?
nope, go to a select entry and in year 9 the week before naplan we just got talked to a little bit about techniques and common mistakes in the test and that was the end of it, it wasnt a huge deal
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nope, go to a select entry and in year 9 the week before naplan we just got talked to a little bit about techniques and common mistakes in the test and that was the end of it, it wasnt a huge deal
When I had NAPLAN...our school seems to regard it more as a nuisance than anything, like we were just told we had NAPLAN and we just did it...
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When I had NAPLAN...our school seems to regard it more as a nuisance than anything, like we were just told we had NAPLAN and we just did it...
Haha, same with my school. But then and again, I don't think the top schools like yours would be too worried about NAPLAN because it's pretty much got solid enrollment numbers anyway and doesn't have any issues attracting good students.
What about some of the underperforming schools? They want to attract students and also good students, so they know that they need to perform well for parents to consider sending their kids there.
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Am I the only one who didn't give a damn about NAPLAN? Why is everyone overreacting to this? It's not like it's VCE and it's just a test. A publicised test. It doesn't mean that it'll be the end of students' lives. Some people really need to suck it up. It's so annoying hearing whiny little Year 7s and worrying about some dumb test. It irks me. Seriously, if there's anything that people should worry about or feel that they should worry about then it's VCE, not some stupid test nobody will even care about.
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Am I the only one who didn't give a damn about NAPLAN? Why is everyone overreacting to this? It's not like it's VCE and it's just a test. A publicised test. It doesn't mean that it'll be the end of students' lives. Some people really need to suck it up. It's so annoying hearing whiny little Year 7s and worrying about some dumb test. It irks me. Seriously, if there's anything that people should worry about or feel that they should worry about then it's VCE, not some stupid test nobody will even care about.
Careful Jean. You or I don't care so much. But:
- some schools care because it determines enrolments because the data is publicised, so they could pressure their students
- some parents take NAPLAN extremely seriously and pressure their kids to breaking point (just like VCE)
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Haha, same with my school. But then and again, I don't think the top schools like yours would be too worried about NAPLAN because it's pretty much got solid enrollment numbers anyway and doesn't have any issues attracting good students.
What about some of the underperforming schools? They want to attract students and also good students, so they know that they need to perform well for parents to consider sending their kids there.
You're making a big generalisation paulsterio. I am speaking through personal experience but 'underperforming schools' don't need to attract students. Why? Because their reputation wasn't built on academic success but instead on getting their students to where they want to be. Mind you, most move onto Tafe or getting work straight out of highschool. I guess that would be the appeal of these schools.
My only gripe with this, and I have bitched/complained about this before, is what happens to the students aiming high. (Therefore aiming for a tertiary course) I really do feel as though NAPLAN should be used an as indicator for said 'gifted' students to be taken from under performing schools and enrolled into select entry schools. Is this poaching? Yes but does it matter? Why should these students be at a disadvantage?
I really do feel as though select entry schools have an obligation to favour, and accept, students from these backgrounds, instead of the typical Private School to MHS/Mac.Rob/.
tl:dr: NAPLAN has the potential, in my opinion, to help gifted students from 'under performing' or 'low socio economical' backgrounds.
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You're making a big generalisation paulsterio. I am speaking through personal experience but 'underperforming schools' don't need to attract students. Why? Because their reputation wasn't built on academic success but instead on getting their students to where they want to be. Mind you, most move onto Tafe or getting work straight out of highschool. I guess that would be the appeal of these schools.
My only gripe with this, and I have bitched/complained about this before, is what happens to the students aiming high. (Therefore aiming for a tertiary course) I really do feel as though NAPLAN should be used an as indicator for said 'gifted' students to be taken from under performing schools and enrolled into select entry schools. Is this poaching? Yes but does it matter? Why should these students be at a disadvantage?
I really do feel as though select entry schools have an obligation to favour, and accept, students from these backgrounds, instead of the typical Private School to MHS/Mac.Rob/.
tl:dr: NAPLAN has the potential, in my opinion, to help gifted students from 'under performing' or 'low socio economical' backgrounds.
I don't understand your point and I don't believe that I made any generalisations in my post.
I also don't agree with what you're saying. Why should you use NAPLAN? There are already standardised tests for admission to selective entry schools. How would NAPLAN assist with this process?
Also, really and truly, nobody is disadvantaged, at the end of the day somebody is going to miss out, no matter how you look at it - you either have a select entry school with the best students in the state or you have a "nice" school who takes in everyone who has potentially disadvantaged circumstances. They're two different purposes and aims.
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Firstly, I should apologize for my post. I should have indicated which part I felt was the generalisation.
What about some of the underperforming schools? They want to attract students and also good students, so they know that they need to perform well for parents to consider sending their kids there.
That was the main gripe I had and, to an extent, I did let my feelings get the better of me. Personally, I just felt that that was completely wrong and unless you have attended an underperforming school, you would understand my point.
I also don't agree with what you're saying. Why should you use NAPLAN? There are already standardised tests for admission to selective entry schools. How would NAPLAN assist with this process?
I am not too sure if you read my post but I said that 'NAPLAN should be used an as indicator for said 'gifted' students to be taken from under performing schools and enrolled into select entry schools'. To me, It can be used as an indicator for academic success. (Indicator should be stressed)
you either have a select entry school with the best students in the state or you have a "nice" school who takes in everyone who has potentially disadvantaged circumstances. They're two different purposes and aims.
With this, Was this the contention you obtained through my post? If so, it isn't correct. My point was that I feel as though Select Entry schools should have a moral obligation to accept, or give preference to, 'gifted' students from dis-advantaged backgrounds. How would we know that some of the 'best students in the state' come 'under performing schools'? What happens if they aren't allowed, either financially or having no support from their school/family, to undertake the Select Entry school test? (Another reason could be that it is an external process and is therefore a hassle).
I just feel as though NAPLAN could be used as a determinant for such students, instead of just simply used as an indicator for a schools performance. Why not look at each student, individually, who comprise such indicators?
Disclaimer: I am talking anecdotally and, until I can find some concrete evidence, my views are my own and should just be taken with a grain of salt.
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Careful Jean. You or I don't care so much. But:
- some schools care because it determines enrolments because the data is publicised, so they could pressure their students
- some parents take NAPLAN extremely seriously and pressure their kids to breaking point (just like VCE)
I am quite aware of that but it's just ridiculous. I've never seen parents pressuring children to attain high results in NAPLAN--it just seems all blown out of proportion that I wonder HOW many people are actually affected by it. It's a tiny thing that shouldn't even cause worry and maybe I'm also piqued because I've heard this issue at least three times during oral presentation week at my school and it's starting to sound a little redundant to me.
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No offense but vomiting and stress sounds a bit too extreme. Seeing from experience, we had an intensive 'Naplan preparation' in year 7 (for 2 weeks we did naplan prep in all of our maths and English classes), and people took it pretty light-minded. There's nothing there to stress about unless your teachers or parents force you to study for it ad if it's a exam that matters; in true fact it doesn't.
You should really let your parents know if you're being forced to study for this, that majority of the people who undertake Naplan don't even prepare or whatsoever, they just wing it and use their knowledge they already have. There's no point stressing yourself to do exceptionally well (the time constraints are far too lean, most people finish the tests with 5-10 mins remaining in my cohort) – Since you're not even goin to be given a percentile or a ranking for this. Take chill pill! :)
It's only there to show you an ideal representation of where you stand against the years of 3,5,7 or 9's. I'm doing it this year, and I'm chilling it, although the intensive preparation from my school will hit sometime in April.
In all contrary, it really isn't an exam to be stressing over!
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One would hope that no exam should cause one to vomit or suffer from insomnia :/
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One would hope that no exam should cause one to vomit or suffer from insomnia :/
One would hope that nothing should cause one to vomit or suffer from insomnia. :P