ATAR Notes: Forum
Archived Discussion => Mathematics and Science => 2013 => Exam Discussion => Victoria => Chemistry => Topic started by: fdhgdzh on November 12, 2013, 12:13:34 pm
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I'm not very happy right now, there's only three chemistry students in my class, and like all of you, we just sat the exam. Myself and one of the other students followed the rules, and brought in a scientific calculator, whereas the other brought in A CAS CALCULATOR. Our teacher wasn't there to meet us before the exam, and the examiners made it clear that we could only bring in a scientific calculator, but didn't bother checking what calculators we actually had. So the person who brought the CAS calculator in, got away with using it. I'm pretty frustrated, as there could have been notes on the CAS calculator. I'd love to dob on this person, but I'm not too sure how to go about it, because I can't exactly prove that he/she had it. Does anyone have any suggestions, or should I just let it go, and hope that there were no notes on this persons calculator?
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I'm not very happy right now, there's only three chemistry students in my class, and like all of you, we just sat the exam. Myself and one of the other students followed the rules, and brought in a scientific calculator, whereas the other brought in A CAS CALCULATOR. Our teacher wasn't there to meet us before the exam, and the examiners made it clear that we could only bring in a scientific calculator, but didn't bother checking what calculators we actually had. So the person who brought the CAS calculator in, got away with using it. I'm pretty frustrated, as there could have been notes on the CAS calculator. I'd love to dob on this person, but I'm not too sure how to go about it, because I can't exactly prove that he/she had it. Does anyone have any suggestions, or should I just let it go, and hope that there were no notes on this persons calculator?
Why didn't you point it out to the examiners during the exam? Even in reading time, would have been the logical thing to do.
Not as much can be done now, I suggest speaking to your VCE co-ordinator but you don't really have much evidence.
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Why didn't you point it out to the examiners during the exam? Even in reading time, would have been the logical thing to do.
Not as much can be done now, I suggest speaking to your VCE co-ordinator but you don't really have much evidence.
I was so close to doing it, I regret leaving it, but there were only three of us in a massive room with two examiners :-\
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As Stevensmay said, the only thing you can do is tell your VCE Coordinator. Even that is a bit too late now though. =/
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I'm not very happy right now, there's only three chemistry students in my class, and like all of you, we just sat the exam. Myself and one of the other students followed the rules, and brought in a scientific calculator, whereas the other brought in A CAS CALCULATOR. Our teacher wasn't there to meet us before the exam, and the examiners made it clear that we could only bring in a scientific calculator, but didn't bother checking what calculators we actually had. So the person who brought the CAS calculator in, got away with using it. I'm pretty frustrated, as there could have been notes on the CAS calculator. I'd love to dob on this person, but I'm not too sure how to go about it, because I can't exactly prove that he/she had it. Does anyone have any suggestions, or should I just let it go, and hope that there were no notes on this persons calculator?
The only thing you can do is speak to your VCE co-ordinator. VCAA has the right to check and confiscate anything brought into the exam room for investigative purposes, whether or not this right gives VCAA the ability to confiscate items after the exam is the question in this case.
The only hope you have if the person was cheating is that they would retrieve the calculator and search it for any notes etc. (if the person is stupid enough not to have already cleared the calculator).
Also are you 110% it wasn't a scientific calculator (would be bad to make a false allegation).
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Don't worry about it if he/she exam marks are great then your marks will improve as well. There's no need to dob think of it as mutually beneficial. And you want to save the drama.
Now if I was saying this in a student perspective I would say to dob on him so that I have one less person to compete with and have an advantage over you and your classmate.
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The only thing you can do is speak to your VCE co-ordinator. VCAA has the right to check and confiscate anything brought into the exam room for investigative purposes, whether or not this right gives VCAA the ability to confiscate items after the exam is the question in this case.
The only hope you have if the person was cheating is that they would retrieve the calculator and search it for any notes etc. (if the person is stupid enough not to have already cleared the calculator).
Also are you 110% it wasn't a scientific calculator (would be bad to make a false allegation).
Yeah 100 percent sure, it was definitely a CAS calculator; unless there is a scientific calculator that is one inch thick and dark black...haha. I'm going to speak to my VCE co-ordinator tomorrow, I guess I'll know for sure that the person in question cheated if my mark is beat, since I was rank one, and the 'cheater' performed poorly on sacs all year.
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Yeah 100 percent sure, it was definitely a CAS calculator; unless there is a scientific calculator that is one inch thick and dark black...haha. I'm going to speak to my VCE co-ordinator tomorrow, I guess I'll know for sure that the person in question cheated if my mark is beat, since I was rank one, and the 'cheater' performed poorly on sacs all year.
Personally, I wouldn't wait until tomorrow. E-Mail or phone your VCE Coordinator today.
Wayyyyy too late to make any statements tomorrow. If you wait until tomorrow, I don't think there's even a point in letting him/her know.
Just my opinion.
BTW: What did the other student say about it?
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You need to speak to them today.
Allegations of cheating are quite serious and if they are going to be reported they need to be reported promptly.
Call or email your co-ordinator if you have to.
I still cannot fathom why you couldn't subtly tell the examiners but oh well.
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Why would you dob, them being successful can only be helpful for your study score, it's too late to prove anything and 99.9% chance they weren't cheating.
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Personally, I wouldn't wait until tomorrow. E-Mail or phone your VCE Coordinator today.
Wayyyyy too late to make any statements tomorrow. If you wait until tomorrow, I don't think there's even a point in letting him/her know.
Just my opinion.
BTW: What did the other student say about it?
That's the thing, I don't think the other student realized. He/she was seated at the back, behind myself and the other rule abiding student. I saw the CAS calculator when said person was sitting down before we went in, it was the only one he/she had.
I went in today but the VCE co-ordinator was absent. I was thinking of sending an email, but I'd rather discuss it in person. I'm just worried that they won't be able to prove this person used a CAS calculator.
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Why would you dob, them being successful can only be helpful for your study score, it's too late to prove anything and 99.9% chance they weren't cheating.
Yeah I understand how it can benefit my score, but it's still cheating. This person has a scientific calculator, I've seen them use it in class, I can't think of any reason as to why they would bring a CAS calculator in, when they have a scientific one anyway. Idk but if I had of brought in a CAS calculator I would have put notes on it lel.
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consider maybe the rest of the state and how his illegitimately higher score will affect (however minutely) everybody else Jussayin
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Dude forget about it. You deal with this sort of "it's unfair" shit at Uni all the time (usually group assignments when someone doesn't do anything). They're only hurting themselves in the long run and you look petty by making a big deal out of it...
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go up to them and tell them "i know what you did, and if you want me to be quiet, it will cost you..." haha jokes, but seriously there is no benefit for yourself if you do so..
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go up to them and tell them "i know what you did, and if you want me to be quiet, it will cost you..." haha jokes, but seriously there is no benefit for yourself if you do so..
Money sounds good
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I'm not very happy right now, there's only three chemistry students in my class, and like all of you, we just sat the exam. Myself and one of the other students followed the rules, and brought in a scientific calculator, whereas the other brought in A CAS CALCULATOR. Our teacher wasn't there to meet us before the exam, and the examiners made it clear that we could only bring in a scientific calculator, but didn't bother checking what calculators we actually had. So the person who brought the CAS calculator in, got away with using it. I'm pretty frustrated, as there could have been notes on the CAS calculator. I'd love to dob on this person, but I'm not too sure how to go about it, because I can't exactly prove that he/she had it. Does anyone have any suggestions, or should I just let it go, and hope that there were no notes on this persons calculator?
Don't buy any of this "oh just let it go" bullshit. Most people who say it are probably just too chicken to do anything about it themselves. I'm not saying to "dob" on this person for your own gain, but rather to hold the other person accountable for their misconduct. Everyone should be on the same level for VCE exams. Think about yourself, the other person, the majority of the state, who actually did the right thing. You've all worked far too hard for some douchebag to suit himself and just go walking right all over you. That guy was clearly at an unfair advantage. Let him suffer the consequences for doing so. They totally deserve it. You're about to enter the real world now, and you need to start standing up for yourself, and say that this sort of behaviour is not OK. At least talk to your VCE co-ordinator and see if anything can be done at all. The person's conscience could give way too, so even if VCAA can't do anything about it, you might still be able to achieve justice just by getting the ball rolling.
Maybe I'm being a bit too aggressive about it, but I just had an exam where the person behind me was kicking my seat and others were talking. Luckily they were all held responsible, but I'm a bit pissed off nonetheless.
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BTW, I just wanna add as well, its a risk to put notes onto a CAS, just in case if your teacher was there today as you walked into the Exam room. Personally, I'd actually study and revise for those 3 hours spent typing notes onto a CAS. Its a risk, and it would be a complete waste of time if your teacher was there and noticed and then told the student that they couldn't use a CAS, especially because you are only allowed one Calculator.
If they did work on adding notes throughout the year, then thats a different story.
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Don't buy any of this "oh just let it go" bullshit. Most people who say it are probably just too chicken to do anything about it themselves. I'm not saying to "dob" on this person for your own gain, but rather to hold the other person accountable for their misconduct. Everyone should be on the same level for VCE exams. Think about yourself, the other person, the majority of the state, who actually did the right thing. You've all worked far too hard for some douchebag to suit himself and just go walking right all over you. That guy was clearly at an unfair advantage. Let him suffer the consequences for doing so. They totally deserve it. You're about to enter the real world now, and you need to start standing up for yourself, and say that this sort of behaviour is not OK. At least talk to your VCE co-ordinator and see if anything can be done at all. The person's conscience could give way too, so even if VCAA can't do anything about it, you might still be able to achieve justice just by getting the ball rolling.
Maybe I'm being a bit too aggressive about it, but I just had an exam where the person behind me was kicking my seat and others were talking. Luckily they were all held responsible, but I'm a bit pissed off nonetheless.
I like how you think, you've pretty much described how I'm feeling right now.
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Summed up my entire post above in two sentences.
You write a lot. :-P
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I like how you think, you've pretty much described how I'm feeling right now.
Well you can't possibly expect to fight every one of these battles in life, but I'd definitely do something now.
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Stick has explained that very well.
Just want to add that if the student isn't a close friend or even a friend, then you're probably not gonna see them again, apart from the last few school events such as Valedictory or Dux Assembly. So go for it but if you do, it has to be today! Talk to your principal or head of campus TODAY! It just HAS to be TODAY! No question about it.
If you don't report it today and instead do it tomorrow, you will look sus and the school AND VCAA will question why you didn't say anything before, during or straight after the exam.
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Retarded examiners obviously
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But you can't prove it. Even if it's two against one, the teachers/VCAA won't decide in your favour if the only proof you've got is your word against theirs.
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Retarded examiners obviously
Yeah I actually thought they would check the calculators, since there were only three of us. I was disappointed that they didn't pick up on it, but then again, it's my fault too for not speaking up. They probably didn't even know the difference between a CAS and scientific calculator anyway.
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But you can't prove it. Even if it's two against one, the teachers/VCAA won't decide in your favour if the only proof you've got is your word against theirs.
That's what's holding me back, I don't think the other student noticed, so it will be my word against the cheater. I don't want to be a time waster, or have them think that I'm lying.
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If you say something and nothing is done, what's the worst that could happen?
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Yeah I actually thought they would check the calculators, since there were only three of us. I was disappointed that they didn't pick up on it, but then again, it's my fault too for not speaking up. They probably didn't even know the difference between a CAS and scientific calculator anyway.
You'd be how much they know, they are actually pretty smart. :P
Another thought that has come to my mind is that an incident report may have already been written up, and you don't even know about it.
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Don't buy any of this "oh just let it go" bullshit. Most people who say it are probably just too chicken to do anything about it themselves.
This is sooooo not the point.
Being chicken and seeing the bigger picture are two completely different things.
If I wanted to be petty about something like that then I'd have no hesitation in saying something but what's the point, ESPECIALLY since the OP has *nothing* to actually back up the claim. It's about the bigger picture. And this PARTICULAR situation is like, 99% chance they weren't cheating anyway, so you just look like someone who is trying to find a fault in other people. Which is a really crap look in the said 'real world'.
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You'd be how much they know, they are actually pretty smart. :P
Another thought that has come to my mind is that an incident report may have already been written up, and you don't even know about it.
That would be brilliant, but wouldn't they have said something so this person during the exam??
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This is sooooo not the point.
Being chicken and seeing the bigger picture are two completely different things.
If I wanted to be petty about something like that then I'd have no hesitation in saying something but what's the point, ESPECIALLY since the OP has *nothing* to actually back up the claim. It's about the bigger picture. And this PARTICULAR situation is like, 99% chance they weren't cheating anyway, so you just look like someone who is trying to find a fault in other people. Which is a really crap look in the said 'real world'.
I wouldn't put it past this person to cheat. I can guarantee they would have had notes written on the calculator. I can see your point, it would be my word against theirs, and no doubt, nothing would be done if I were to report it since I didn't say anything during the exam. It's just that I put a fair bit of work in for the most part of the year, more so than the other person, I just feel like I'm being cheated through their actions.
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That would be brilliant, but wouldn't they have said something so this person during the exam??
Posted this last week in the Methods Exam discussion. Have a read. :)
A lot of people don't know this, but your VCAA Exam supervisors write down little incident reports about the littlest thing. They don't exactly tell you that they are doing it, but they just do it and I think its filled at the end of the Exam. This is then enclosed in the pink bag with everyone's exams and is then collected. Incident Reports may be made for things such as constantly putting hands in pockets. Another example is giving a phone up to a supervisor when the main supervisor is giving instructions just before Reading Time commences (Even though they ask then, phones and other electronic devices should be handed up before you enter the Exam room, so before you sit down).
You don't get into trouble (Well you could), but its just so that VCAA knows exactly what is happening. However, apparently you do get told at the END of YOUR EXAM PERIOD, so after your last Exam.
So don't do anything dodgy, otherwise another incident report will be made.
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I wouldn't put it past this person to cheat. I can guarantee they would have had notes written on the calculator. I can see your point, it would be my word against theirs, and no doubt, nothing would be done if I were to report it since I didn't say anything during the exam. It's just that I put a fair bit of work in for the most part of the year, more so than the other person, I just feel like I'm being cheated through their actions.
Yeah man I get how that feels, I've done entire assignments on my own that were supposed to be shared between 3 people. It's just life and I'm just saying perhaps you should exercise a different perspective because this isn't going to be the only time this happens to you (provided you're a hard worker in general). There are plenty of other things in life to expend your energy on.
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How the hell has this thread made it to 3 pages.
1. You should have mentioned it to the examiners.
2. S/he may not have cheated, no point doing a character analysis on their behaviour, it makes no difference.
3. Yes it is unfair, no it isn't the end of the world.
4. Speak/email your co-ordinator today, it's probably already to late anyway though.
5. Any self-respecting cheater would have cleared their calculator as soon as they left the exam. If an investigation occurs the outcome is uncertain.
/thread
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This is sooooo not the point.
Being chicken and seeing the bigger picture are two completely different things.
If I wanted to be petty about something like that then I'd have no hesitation in saying something but what's the point, ESPECIALLY since the OP has *nothing* to actually back up the claim. It's about the bigger picture. And this PARTICULAR situation is like, 99% chance they weren't cheating anyway, so you just look like someone who is trying to find a fault in other people. Which is a really crap look in the said 'real world'.
I can see and understand your point, and would definitely agree in other circumstances, but I still think the OP should say something. What's the absolute worst that could happen?
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This is sooooo not the point.
Being chicken and seeing the bigger picture are two completely different things.
If I wanted to be petty about something like that then I'd have no hesitation in saying something but what's the point, ESPECIALLY since the OP has *nothing* to actually back up the claim. It's about the bigger picture. And this PARTICULAR situation is like, 99% chance they weren't cheating anyway, so you just look like someone who is trying to find a fault in other people. Which is a really crap look in the said 'real world'.
There actually is a 99% chance they WERE cheating. Op said they had scientific calculators all year, this wasnt a mistake it was a calculated (excuse the pun) decision to bring the CAS in, which by my definition is cheating in the first place.