ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: Eriny on January 22, 2008, 01:49:58 pm
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I was just interested as to whether anyone has lost friends or have had people drift away from them as a result of school. Either due to jealousy or the lack of time thing.
When I was doing year 12, I had a friend who kept being really condescending everytime I got a SAC mark back, saying things like "you just got lucky" or "I'm still better than you" and stuff. At first I thought it was a joke so I kind of just laughed if off but it was getting more and more annoying and insulting (or I was getting more sensitive due to tiredness...). So I confronted him, accused him of being jealous and we've only spoken a few times since.
Also, my best friend from year 8 to year 11 kind of just stopped talking to me in year 12 or would be rather passive-aggressive towards me. I have no idea if that was because of school though or because I offended her some other way (although I can't think of any instances where I would have, it's probably quite arrogant of me to think a person has stopped talking to me because they are jealous).
I was also talking to a girl in my UMEP class last year who was saying that her sister got a 92.something and all she did was work. She basically cut her friends out of her life and accused them all of being jealous whenever they confronted her about spending too much time studying. So, I guess it can work both ways.
I think people generally are less rational during VCE and they let the idea that they're being ranked amongst the state really get to them. Thankfully I still have some awesome friends who are great fun though.
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I can't really say I lost any friends because of VCE stress or anything related. I went to an all girls school and I can say that the level of bitchiness went up about 5 notches but I don't even think that could be entirely blamed on year 12. If anything it was that the girls who didn't care about their results couldn't understand why some girls did and couldn't give them the necessary space at school to study. During free periods the common room became a war zone. The girls who wanted to study would set up at one table and the girls who where there to socialize would set up on a different table. The fights started about 10 minutes into the period when the phones would come out and the girls would play music whilst talking at the top of their voices and the studious girls would crack the shits and tell them to go outside. It was nasty in there!!!
I'm more finding now that I'm drifting away from the girls I went to school with. I don't want it to happen but I find myself working a lot and whenever they want to catch up I'm working or already have plans to do something with the guys at work. What worries me is that I'm not really that phased that I haven't spoken to them much. :| Anyway, back on topic....
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At my school study is frowned upon by the general populace and anyone who does study gets stomped.
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At my school study is frowned upon by the general populace and anyone who does study gets stomped.
i like the thought of dcc-meatpie....
I've lost friends coz of study, stupid attention seeking emos, "dont you care about how we are? you'd rather us dead..."
moral of the day: if ur not one of them, dont try to become one of them, simple :P
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At my school study is frowned upon by the general populace and anyone who does study gets stomped.
That sounds similar to what my school was like, although by the end of the year people tended to respect the studyers a little more. If you were going to study, you wouldn't draw attention to yourself.
But yeah, I remember spares being full of music (usually crap music) and playing 'pocket tanks' on the computers. It was impossible sometimes! But sometimes it was the other way around, like, if you were talking normally to your friend some random would come up to you and tell you to shut up. I think that's just as rude, lol. Especially when in some of my classes the people telling you to be quiet were always quite noisy themselves.
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At my school study is frowned upon by the general populace and anyone who does study gets stomped.
That sounds similar to what my school was like, although by the end of the year people tended to respect the studyers a little more. If you were going to study, you wouldn't draw attention to yourself.
But yeah, I remember spares being full of music (usually crap music) and playing 'pocket tanks' on the computers. It was impossible sometimes! But sometimes it was the other way around, like, if you were talking normally to your friend some random would come up to you and tell you to shut up. I think that's just as rude, lol. Especially when in some of my classes the people telling you to be quiet were always quite noisy themselves.
Its like last year, in one of my classes, we had an exam (a VCAA once) in about a week. And there were people sitting on the computer playing 'Castle Defence' or something stupid like that. Me and My mate are just like 'Why?' (the mate ended up getting 50 to my 44 the bastard :P).
To study what I usually have to do is go near a staffroom because then the teachers respect what your doing and occasionally help you :)
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My school is kind of different. The general idea is that people can be supposedly "cool" yet also be studious. People don't care if you work but theirs still the problem of people who don't care about school just mucking around the whole time.
My year level is actually pretty harmonised.
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Well i didn't really lose many friends during school... lol it was after i finished that i lost a few of them.
Anyways at my school anyone who was smart or studied was either used or abused ...
So yeah I dunno I guess it depends on the type of relationship you had with your school friends :)
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For me, i'm not really loosing friends, its more that we are going different paths. One of my mates decided he wanted to do a trade and so left school to pursue it. I dont see/talk to him as much but im still mates with him.
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When I was doing year 12, I had a friend who kept being really condescending everytime I got a SAC mark back, saying things like "you just got lucky" or "I'm still better than you" and stuff. At first I thought it was a joke so I kind of just laughed if off but it was getting more and more annoying and insulting (or I was getting more sensitive due to tiredness...). So I confronted him, accused him of being jealous and we've only spoken a few times since.
That would have been soo annoying! I don't think I've lost much friends because of vce... but that's probably cause I mix with the studious people and study lol. Like costargh's school, my year level is pretty good with each other and no one really teases people for studying... they go to the studying people for help instead =)
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Anyways at my school anyone who was smart or studied was either used or abused ...
Yep that happened to me...It was sooooooo annoying....
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I believe this behaviour only happens in schools that are not accustomed to the culture of competition, where some people dabble themselves too much in envy, rather than in awe and aspiration to beat their competitor by moving up (rather than dragging the other guy down).
It does not happen in Melbourne High. It didn't happen in Brunswick which had an accelerated class.
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i found it a little hard throughout the year with some friends. in my group of girlfriends i was the ONLY one who actually wanted to do well. I would still go out with them lots in the first half of the year, but in the second half i would often prefer to have quiet nights, so i would be in a good state to study the following day. they continued going out throughout this period (including swotvac!!) so i began to feel a bit out of the loop. i would also get the sly remarks about my studying. its definitely difficult if your friends arent motivated whatsoever and you are dedicated. turns out the majority of them havent gotten a uni offer due to bad enters:) hehehehe
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The people who don't care for doing well usually just avoid the people who want to do well, or in rarer cases will leech on to them for help. There are only a few people who insult others for being smart, thankfully. There are many different 'groups' comprised of people who want to do well, so I guess people within those groups are friends with the rest of them.
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Given that the academically able are treated quite poorly by their non-academic peers, it seems like another slap in the face for such able students for the Victorian Government to actually try to hold back students from leaving their less academically inclined peers to go off to selective schools like MHS and MacRob through the use of the "3% rule" with the justification that:
"French scholars sometimes describe talented students in mixed settings as "pilots". They contribute to the academic climate in classrooms, contributing to discussions and being role models. Other children learn from them. If you remove these students, it can have a marked effect on learning for the remaining students. If selective schools drain other schools of their pilots then the children who remain may suffer from the absence of more highly able peers, and under-achieve relative to their potential." http://www.theage.com.au/news/vic-election-06-opinion/hothouse-sours/2006/11/20/1163871334588.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2
The underlying argument behind such policy is that those who are more academically able should carry the burden of lifting the academic performance of their less able peers – even if it means sacrificing opportunities to fulfil their own potential. I find this a highly offensive expectation, especially when many of these able students report they have been marginalised in their previous schools because of their ability.
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My school is kind of different. The general idea is that people can be supposedly "cool" yet also be studious. People don't care if you work but theirs still the problem of people who don't care about school just mucking around the whole time.
My year level is actually pretty harmonised.
Kinda the same thing happened at my School as well. We comparitively had quite a few students do well compaed to other years, yet we also had a good number that did really bad. But still there wasnt any real segregation amongst the year level despite such the wide range of academic performances.
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The underlying argument behind such policy is that those who are more academically able should carry the burden of lifting the academic performance of their less able peers – even if it means sacrificing opportunities to fulfil their own potential. I find this a highly offensive expectation, especially when many of these able students report they have been marginalised in their previous schools because of their ability.
Agreed. If a student wants in, and MHS wants to let them in, then why should someone else step in the way and say "no, we're doing this for the greater good."
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Given that the academically able are treated quite poorly by their non-academic peers, it seems like another slap in the face for such able students for the Victorian Government to actually try to hold back students from leaving their less academically inclined peers to go off to selective schools like MHS and MacRob through the use of the "3% rule" with the justification that:
"French scholars sometimes describe talented students in mixed settings as "pilots". They contribute to the academic climate in classrooms, contributing to discussions and being role models. Other children learn from them. If you remove these students, it can have a marked effect on learning for the remaining students. If selective schools drain other schools of their pilots then the children who remain may suffer from the absence of more highly able peers, and under-achieve relative to their potential." http://www.theage.com.au/news/vic-election-06-opinion/hothouse-sours/2006/11/20/1163871334588.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap2
The underlying argument behind such policy is that those who are more academically able should carry the burden of lifting the academic performance of their less able peers – even if it means sacrificing opportunities to fulfil their own potential. I find this a highly offensive expectation, especially when many of these able students report they have been marginalised in their previous schools because of their ability.
This is really an absurd idea, in that it traps more academically inclined students, holding them back to achieve their full potential. The state government is really out of touch if it believes that this is justified.
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I can see this year putting a strain on some of my friendships. I want to achieve my best but I can see that intefering with my friends. None of the ones I hang with at school seem to have the same drive to do well as me. I think the fact that 4 of my friends were in my chemistry class last year did negatively impact my result.
It really iritates me the way my friends assume that I always get a good mark without any effort. I work hard to get those marks but they don't seem to understand that.
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It really iritates me the way my friends assume that I always get a good mark without any effort. I work hard to get those marks but they don't seem to understand that.
I so sympathise with you...
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It really iritates me the way my friends assume that I always get a good mark without any effort. I work hard to get those marks but they don't seem to understand that.
Me three. I always got the "oh, you don't even have to try" spiel, which so isn't true. I mean, yeah, I was probably more rewarded for hard work than lots of my peers were, but that doesn't mean I didn't work pretty hard.
My lit teacher actually did say that the rest of my class did better because of my presence (she might be biased though...), to be honest that felt good. Even though it wasn't the best place for intellectual immersion, I did like my school a lot and most of the people in it. And I always got support from the staff as well, which kind of made up for the otherwise anti-academic environment.
Even though there were some draw-backs to being in an average school, I think that I did benefit from things like being singled out more often and having people appreciate my success in different areas (even students!). At a high achieving school, I wouldn't have been all that special, probably.
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It really iritates me the way my friends assume that I always get a good mark without any effort. I work hard to get those marks but they don't seem to understand that.
I can relate with that also. They just dont get how i can get good marks even though i still go out with them. It all comes down to hard work andprioritisation!
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In year 12 my good friend count went from 0 to 1. Therefore, I gained friends :D
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In year 12 my good friend count went from 0 to 1. Therefore, I gained friends :D
Yes!!!! lol
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Socially, year 12 was easily the best year. I worked hard, but i also got closer to a lot of people.
If i hadn't had such an enjoyable social life, my good results wouldnt have meant as much. The feeling you get when reading your results is nothing compared to your friends congratulating you IMO.
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it's definitely a problem in high school, and in particular yr12. i had a guy ask me once halfway through yr12 if i thought i'd get over 99 and i answered truthfully "yes", because i knew my own capabilities. and he got all exasperated and said "you can't just say that". he thought it was the absolute height of arrogance to be confident in one's own intelligence. which can be the case when people are brash about it (which i certainly can be on occasions). but nevertheless, some people don't cope well with others consistently scoring higher than them.
in uni, however, i don't think it's such a problem at all. a lot of my friends have been people who've kinda cruised through high school and gotten 80-90 but then decided to really try to achieve well (Ds/HDs) at university. basically, the people i know at uni generally care about their own marks and not about how others do. but that's just my friends, i suppose there's always others...
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It really iritates me the way my friends assume that I always get a good mark without any effort. I work hard to get those marks but they don't seem to understand that.
Yep, also know how that feels, it's beyond annoying, my friends were often saying stuff like oh you don't need to study, you'll get A++ anyway, as if I have some sort of academic magic wand or something *rolls eyes*
The feeling you get when reading your results is nothing compared to your friends congratulating you IMO.
DEFINITELY :)
I dunno about losing friends - in my group of friends only a couple cared about doing well as much as I did .... the others kinda slacked off a bit .... I remember 2 of my friends went to an arctic monkeys concert in the middle of their exam period, the idiots. But we still got along brilliantly because we were understanding of each other's priorities and we worked out our social timetable with everyone's needs in mind. Year 12 was great because I got a whole lot closer to my closest friends and made quite a few new ones :) I don't think doing well equates to losing friends if you do things right!
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No way lose friends.. people have to respect that you actually care for your future and if they don't then that means that they dont even care about you. Friends should obviously care and respect each other.
At my school if you want to study you can if not then just fk around but in the end everyone understands each other but at times the people who dont care about their studies bludge too much, which can get annoying but at the end of the day they are still your friends and will let you study if you just ask them to give you some time.
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I dunno about losing friends - in my group of friends only a couple cared about doing well as much as I did .... the others kinda slacked off a bit .... I remember 2 of my friends went to an arctic monkeys concert in the middle of their exam period, the idiots. But we still got along brilliantly because we were understanding of each other's priorities and we worked out our social timetable with everyone's needs in mind. Year 12 was great because I got a whole lot closer to my closest friends and made quite a few new ones :) I don't think doing well equates to losing friends if you do things right!
All I have to say about you (on this topic) is that if I was your friend, and you were as unhappy about your results as you seemed like it on IRC, then I would not be very impressed with you. You coulda lost a friend right there :P
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LOL. But my friends know that I have impossibly high standards so they would understand. So clearly you wouldn't be a very good friend, tut tut :P
EDIT: I was more upset about my individual study scores .... 38 for my favourite subject, an A in the exam of a subject in which I'd been getting full marks for SACs all year, and a 46 for a subject which my teacher told me I could easily get 50 for ....
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I dunno about losing friends - in my group of friends only a couple cared about doing well as much as I did .... the others kinda slacked off a bit .... I remember 2 of my friends went to an arctic monkeys concert in the middle of their exam period, the idiots.
Arctic Monkeys rock though, so it's understandable :)
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My lit teacher actually did say that the rest of my class did better because of my presence (she might be biased though...), to be honest that felt good. Even though it wasn't the best place for intellectual immersion, I did like my school a lot and most of the people in it. And I always got support from the staff as well, which kind of made up for the otherwise anti-academic environment.
yeah, i got that after the awards night, and i really wanted to escape it
because now i feel responsible for my year level to help them pull through yr12 (as a teacher put to me, help to lift the cohort up), and the guilt that i will have for not having done enough to help when a lot of them dont get the scores they wanted...
bloody hell
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Mao, top all the SAC's then do really poorly on the exams, your school will get owned!
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drownz is right, but if u do good at sacs and suck at exams, your overall grade will be brought down
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Mao, top all the SAC's then do really poorly on the exams, your school will get owned!
thank you for that encouragement, i'll do just that and become a bum ;D
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I meant so that noone in your school gets epic marks :P Your obviously smart enough to pwn 08 (MATH!)
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My lit teacher actually did say that the rest of my class did better because of my presence (she might be biased though...), to be honest that felt good. Even though it wasn't the best place for intellectual immersion, I did like my school a lot and most of the people in it. And I always got support from the staff as well, which kind of made up for the otherwise anti-academic environment.
yeah, i got that after the awards night, and i really wanted to escape it
because now i feel responsible for my year level to help them pull through yr12 (as a teacher put to me, help to lift the cohort up), and the guilt that i will have for not having done enough to help when a lot of them dont get the scores they wanted...
bloody hell
haha it can get pretty annoying helping people... especially international students... gosh! i mean, i AM friends with them but sometimes im like 'you've gotta try to understand this rather than assume memorising this will let you pass' and they don't listen. they bludge all the way through and the day before the exam i come online and they're like 'omg i've been waiting AGES for you!' making me feel guilty that i try to explain ALL their questions on msn when they don't even understand the terminologies because they don't try to learn/improve their english... as if i don't need to study on the day before the exam >.< i just come online to relax! =P
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yeah, i got that after the awards night, and i really wanted to escape it
because now i feel responsible for my year level to help them pull through yr12 (as a teacher put to me, help to lift the cohort up), and the guilt that i will have for not having done enough to help when a lot of them dont get the scores they wanted...
bloody hell
you shouldn't feel responsible at all because you are not. i find it highly insidious to suggest that one student has an obligation to pull up another student. no doubt, if you really wanted to do that, you can, but i don't like this idea of you having a responsibility or an obligation or you feeling guilty. it's ethically compromised. they need to learn for themselves.
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yeah, i got that after the awards night, and i really wanted to escape it
because now i feel responsible for my year level to help them pull through yr12 (as a teacher put to me, help to lift the cohort up), and the guilt that i will have for not having done enough to help when a lot of them dont get the scores they wanted...
bloody hell
you shouldn't feel responsible at all because you are not. i find it highly insidious to suggest that one student has an obligation to pull up another student. no doubt, if you really wanted to do that, you can, but i don't like this idea of you having a responsibility or an obligation or you feeling guilty. it's ethically compromised. they need to learn for themselves.
its easy to say, but when they ask you for help you cant really deny them...
it's different from person to person, some more obliged than others...
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yeah, i got that after the awards night, and i really wanted to escape it
because now i feel responsible for my year level to help them pull through yr12 (as a teacher put to me, help to lift the cohort up), and the guilt that i will have for not having done enough to help when a lot of them dont get the scores they wanted...
bloody hell
you shouldn't feel responsible at all because you are not. i find it highly insidious to suggest that one student has an obligation to pull up another student. no doubt, if you really wanted to do that, you can, but i don't like this idea of you having a responsibility or an obligation or you feeling guilty. it's ethically compromised. they need to learn for themselves.
its easy to say, but when they ask you for help you cant really deny them...
it's different from person to person, some more obliged than others...
Helping people makes you feel good on the inside mao :)
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Helping people makes you feel good on the inside mao :)
Agreed. As long as they aren't annoying and have a pretty good idea of what's going on, I actually like helping people. It usually means that you have a better understanding of what you're learning and it's nice to know that you made a positive difference to someone else's results. That said, it's also true that you aren't responsible for them. I think if I felt responsible for the performance of another student I'd feel pretty resentful.
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its easy to say, but when they ask you for help you cant really deny them...
it's different from person to person, some more obliged than others...
if a person asks you for help on a subject, you are well within your rights to refuse to do so. i'm not saying that you can't or you shouldn't, you might very well enjoy it and that's cool too, but i'm saying that you don't have any responsibility or obligation to do so.
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I think helping your fellow student is a great way to reinforce the ideas not only for who you're helping, but for yourself. In saying that though, you have to distinguish who is truly appreciative of your help and who is just using you because you have a 'greater' understanding than everyone else. There are selfish people out there who will try and latch onto you during year 12, and it's important to avoid that and be cautious of it. It's also essential to keep your concentration on your work, and never feel obligated, as said above. Helping is always a nice gesture though; you never know when you'll need it yourself. Give and you'll receive :)
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For me, i'm not really loosing friends, its more that we are going different paths. One of my mates decided he wanted to do a trade and so left school to pursue it. I dont see/talk to him as much but im still mates with him.
Thats like me!!! All of my old good mates left and did trades and tafe etc and i hardly see them anymore. Here and there I do, but we are all different now.
Its good that they left though, so now I concentrate and get good marks, and most of the people at school now are there because they want to be, rather than they have to be.