ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: kenhung123 on December 04, 2009, 11:45:57 am
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LOL
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ppl want to get in and they try for the sake of it? why won't they grab the closest opportunity,i.e. year 12, to achieve their goal?
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Ever thought about that some people actually need to 'study really hard' to even get 70 ENTER in the first place? Or that some people's definition of 'studying really hard' isn't the same as another's? And really, I don't know what you're basing this off. Even being in MHS, I saw plenty of cbf and demotivation prevalent throughout the year with most people just wanting an ENTER enough to scrape into their course, or just not caring about it literally at all and just hoping they'll get into something. At public schools and so on, I further doubt that 'even the sloppiest guy' would be so motivated. There are a select few, but it's not everyone. However for those who do bother, it's a bit like some model I learnt at uni; there's people who are achieving learners who just learn for the sake of competition (quite a large driving factor for me actually), and then there's those who learn because they actually like learning (think of the Maths geniuses on this forum). I think the predominate reason that causes people to start trying is the achieving one where because VCE actually assigns quantitative scores to everything (SAC scores, SS, ENTER etc.), people actually have a drive and a means of comparison at where they stand, and this brings out their competitive spirit I guess. And not to mention of course, that their futures are (apparently?) on the line with regards to their careers and so on. This is a reason which might predominate for those who have a bit more foresight and initiative.
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Well if you think about it VCE is a huge milestone for many adolescents.
You are competing with every other student in the state for a ranking. Now for many students this ranking is what will allow them to pursue their dreams. Also it's the last year of your schooling, think of it, you have spent 13 years of your life at school! Don't you want to leave in style? Leave school knowing that you gave it your best shot?
I knew two people at school. One who was really smart and had the potential to do exceptionally well (I'm talking 90+) and another who had to put in a fair amount of work to get a decent mark. The former got a 78 and the latter achieved an 81. The latter achieved this, through hard work, he would spend hours with teachers to understand things he didn't understand, the other was just lazy and put basically no effort into his VCE.
With me I wish I took a page out of my friend's book with my attitude to English. I wasn't a good English student and with a bit of initiative to get help, I would have achieved my personal best in English. What that is I don't know, but the thing is that if you don't put in the work, you won't get the marks.
The world can be your oyster if you put in the work. As my finance my professor once said: "In finance, you never get a free lunch", but I believe that it's the rule to life.
Anyway your basically an adult now, nobody can tell you what to do with your attitude to VCE or life.
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i think even the most sloppiest people try is because no one wants to be embarassed with a crap ENTER score
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There's always gonna be soccer world cups or football premierships, but this is the only time you're going to do VCE in your life, so hell why not give it a go.
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I don't need an ENTER in the 90's, I have the option of going to TAFE, yet I am studying, well STUDIED really hard....it's not as easy to get a 70/80 for an ENTER as you may think. I choose this range as an example, as this is where many courses are located in between....well my ones anyway
In a SAC you get get a 70% with ur eye's closed
When it comes to ENTER, its not a %.....so 70/80 is pretty hard to get....means ur in the top 30-20% OF THE STATE. You do need to work hard to get up into that.
I DO NOT WANT an ENTER of higehr than 85, as stupid as it sounds, I just want the BARE MINIMUM to get into my course....in 1 years time nobody will ever ask "what ENETR did you get". I have no need to get 85%+, Im CAPABLE, but its un-necessary, who am I trying to impress? None otehr than myself, and to me the clearly in, is enough for me :)
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because it's the end of your life if you don't do well in vce..
because it's an important year and people want to get into the course/university that they want.
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There's always gonna be soccer world cups or football premierships, but this is the only time you're going to do VCE in your life, so hell why not give it a go.
hehe not if u live ur life by my philosophy
[IMG]http://hosting11.imagecross.com/image-hosting-22/2591We-Value-Football-First.jpg[/img]Image Hosting
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Not everyone cares. But there are alot more who care than in lower secondary. Why? Because this means something, doing well in VCE opens up doors for your future. Still there are some who have no care about VCE, I am not talking about people whose goals are lower than your own for if they have a goal they obviously have some care. Rather I am talking of those who are indifferent to their performance. One guy at my school told me he actually would be unchanged in receiving an ENTER of 99.95 over an ENTER of 50.00, he didn't care at all.
Personally I want to not only get into my desired course but to attain a good scholarship also. This coupled with interest in my subjects is why I care about VCE.
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This isn't the only reason I cared about VCE, but there is a bit of curiosity as well, no? Like in an IQ test or something. How well do I go if I do my best whilst pitted against a wider population?
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- I needed 99+ for my course
- I didn't want my parents going "so-and-so did better than you, why?" (they did that anyway because a family friend got 99.95)
- Bragging rights
- Curiosity as to what I can achieve
- Genuinely wanting to learn for some of my subjects
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- Bragging rights
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LOL well:
- personal satisfaction (plays a very important role for me)
- self esteem
- bragging rights
- competition (omg friend x did so much better on SAC y)
- be free of guilt (oh if only I'd studied more...)
- to get a good job (major!!!) and be richhhh
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The world can be your oyster if you put in the work. As my finance my professor once said: "In finance, you never get a free lunch", but I believe that it's the rule to life.
My microeconomics lecturer kept saying that "there's no such thing as a free lunch".
Personally, I'm not sure I fully agree with this and find it a bit pessimistic of the human condition.
You sort of expect it from someone who's been in finance/economics though, and can agree with it purely from a business perspective.
Anywayz... I wanted to do well in VCE to prove to myself that I could.
I also wanted to get the ENTER required for my desired course, and knew that if I didn't get it, but had still done my best, then I would have no regrets.
I can't say I pushed myself to my limit, but I still worked hard... I was very lazy when it came to practice exams though.
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i think even the most sloppiest people try is because no one wants to be embarassed with a crap ENTER score
This is definately not true. As shinny mentioned previously, there's a significant population who could not care less about their VCE and ENTER score. Personally, I cared about getting my ENTER for similar reasons to ninwa. It may sound stupid, but I wanted to prove it to myself that I was capable of achieving certain results, along with the obvious reason of getting into my course.
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To be able to leave school satisfied that you have done your best and ready to continue with your life and never look back..
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I have a perfect contention to answer this question/title of ur thread
If you are to not care during VCE for your education, just when are you planning to care? <3
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During uni?
o.O
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Yeh, a prevalent attitude in my year level was that they'd just wing VCE, go to new-gen UoM and start trying from then on to get into what they actually wanted to at a graduate level.
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During uni?
o.O
LMAO, you know what. I wrote this;
"and I know some people will say, 'during uni', but the VCE is a direct pathway to Uni, and yes there is TAFE etc, but for many, including myself my best option is straight into Uni"
But then I edited, and eventually deleted that comment because I didn't think any 1 would point it out ><
I just don't see myself s having the attitude or energy to do average at VCE, and go the long way via TAFE, doing a course i don't really want to do, just to gain credit and transfer.
I prefer to do well the first time :D
Thank god that contention of mine wasn't in an essay =.=*, I would have failed =S
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I think people should care because its important to the rest of their life (well to a decent chunk of people). [
I think im a smart-ish guy but i can be pretty lazy most of the time.]
Mainly, because i want to get into certain uni courses i have my mind set on and if i don't get into them, i don't really have any idea what i'm going to do.
I was pretty lazy even in year 11 (for SACs, ect) but year 12 like so many other people have said now and before me, im going to give it all i got and put my ass into gear. I think im a bit more motivated with the SACs in year 12 because they actually mean something, before now, sure SACs/Tests meant something but it was just a little mark or box on the report i could care less about so i didnt really try.
One final reason - (they talked about this at a school assembly once and it really stuck with me) I don't want to be one of those "could of" or "if only" people. As in if only i studied harder i could of been here or i shouldnt of slacked off there.. or i wish this.. (you see where im going). So im gonna try my best for this one year.
If you dont want to care im cool with that, the worse you do the better i look.
(Hopefully i stick to all that ive said...O_O... time will tell hey..)
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^^ WOW, at our assembly they also sued the "could of" "would of" studied harder speech!
It really stuck to me too!!! And they were right, I haven';t gotten my marks and im already regretful LOL
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could have* would have*
/lol sorry
I care about VCE because:
-I have a sibling who did ~amazingly (sort of)
-My parents compare me to said sibling and family friends even though they want to be a doctor and I'm not 'ambitious' enough to be one
-Bragging rights
-Getting into Uni
-I think I suck at everything so I end up working harder (see, there is a good thing about having shocking self-esteem)
-I have a Ron Weasley inferiority complex where I am always second best compared with my friend/sibling so I really, really want to do well in VCE since there aren't any lockets around for me to stab
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could have* would have*
/lol sorry
I care about VCE because:
-I have a sibling who did ~amazingly (sort of)
-My parents compare me to said sibling and family friends even though they want to be a doctor and I'm not 'ambitious' enough to be one
-Bragging rights
-Getting into Uni
-I think I suck at everything so I end up working harder (see, there is a good thing about having shocking self-esteem)
-I have a Ron Weasley inferiority complex where I am always second best compared with my friend/sibling so I really, really want to do well in VCE since there aren't any lockets around for me to stab
Why does everyone want their kids to become doctors? Or lawyers? My friend his sister did medicine so he had to do medicine (btw his father is a chemical engineer), well he wanted to do optometry instead.
Can someone tell me why people all want to become doctors? Is it being able to say "I'm a doctor"? The salary? Or do these people have a real passion to be a doctor?
Btw med students have a drop out rate of like 50%.
One of my friends (he's doing biomed) told me that when he went to a lecture on what it's like to be a doctor, the professor first off said "If you are doing it for money, there is a commerce building across the road". It's true though if you want money you can be a stock broker, make some crappy pop music, etc.
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Btw med students have a drop out rate of like 50%.
So does law. Law also has one of the highest suicide/depression rates, too. I don't understand it either.
I did law because I really wanted to do arts but I knew I'd have a hard time getting a job with just an arts degree. I know people doing law because they want to look "elite". I also know (very few) people doing it who genuinely have an interest in it. Or maybe some actually want to help people (lol haven't met anyone like that yet).
The majority do it for the perceived high-income jobs at the end of the (lonnnng, dark, stressful, 50%-chance-of-being-crushed-by-the-failtrain) tunnel.
Whereas I have a feeling people who do medicine are more altruistic - a lot more of them want to help people. I know my reasons for wanting to get into med were a lot less selfish than my reasons for doing law...
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Can someone tell me why people all want to become doctors? Is it being able to say "I'm a doctor"? The salary? Or do these people have a real passion to be a doctor?
For a lot of Asian parents who want their child/children to do Med:
- It's the only profession known to them that you can actually make money.
- Prestige (not only associated with their child who is a doctor but to them as well since they are "the parents of a doctor")
- Get a fancy title in front of your name
- Bragging rights
- For the most part, since a lot of Asian parents were not fortunate enough to get an education, they want their child to be educated and prosper so the child does not have to go through what their parents went through.
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"If you are doing it for money, there is a commerce building across the road".
Absolutely true. People who think medicine will get them rich are right HOWEVER, this is probably the highest paid occupation but not the highest paid opportunity. The world's richest are mostly-all business people. People who think the only way to earn money is through working is kinda LOL.
actually doctors do not get paid very much at all until after they specialise and the amount of time doctors are working/studying is more than the majority of all other jobs, and what they get paid for that is very little. you wont be earning that much until 10-15 years from med school, depending on how long it takes to get into a specialist college and finish it. quite difficult.
medicine is appealing for some due to the academic stimulation, the pure interest, ability to help others - feel yourself being needed, among other things. i would frown upon anyone who went into medicine purely for the social prestige, money, title and so on.
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could have* would have*
/lol sorry
I care about VCE because:
-I have a sibling who did ~amazingly (sort of)
-My parents compare me to said sibling and family friends even though they want to be a doctor and I'm not 'ambitious' enough to be one
-Bragging rights
-Getting into Uni
-I think I suck at everything so I end up working harder (see, there is a good thing about having shocking self-esteem)
-I have a Ron Weasley inferiority complex where I am always second best compared with my friend/sibling so I really, really want to do well in VCE since there aren't any lockets around for me to stab
Btw med students have a drop out rate of like 50%.
Source?
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It annoys me as well, why is it that Med is the only course that is looked at with admiration?
Why do some people consider Commerce/Engineering a second rate/or often third rate kind of degree?
Take me - I want to do Commerce. However, I often find people telling me, 'oh you work so hard, you're going to do so well and you could do so much better than that' - ???
If it's in terms of the pay; people in Commerce do earn quite high salaries. The Maths needed for Actuarial Studies cannot be underestimated. I don't understand why some people look down on Commerce and other degrees such as Engineering/Arts. In the end, it's the individual's interest as to what he/she wants to do.
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It annoys me as well, why is it that Med is the only course that is looked at with admiration?
Why do some people consider Commerce/Engineering a second rate/or often third rate kind of degree?
Take me - I want to do Commerce. However, I often find people telling me, 'oh you work so hard, you're going to do so well and you could do so much better than that' - ???
If it's in terms of the pay; people in Commerce do earn quite high salaries. The Maths needed for Actuarial Studies cannot be underestimated. I don't understand why some people look down on Commerce and other degrees such as Engineering/Arts. In the end, it's the individual's interest as to what he/she wants to do.
Perhaps you're getting mixed up with 'looking down' vs. 'not looking up'. I don't know many people who look down upon commerce or engineering. As for not looking up, well I don't think it's about the pay. People don't judge your aspirations simply based on how much money you want to earn. I would think the reason people look towards med is obvious: you are committing your life (incl. long years of training and specialization) to a constant process of learning in order to improve other people's health. A nice way to live.
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"If you are doing it for money, there is a commerce building across the road".
Absolutely true. People who think medicine will get them rich are right HOWEVER, this is probably the highest paid occupation but not the highest paid opportunity. The world's richest are mostly-all business people. People who think the only way to earn money is through working is kinda LOL.
actually doctors do not get paid very much at all until after they specialise and the amount of time doctors are working/studying is more than the majority of all other jobs, and what they get paid for that is very little. you wont be earning that much until 10-15 years from med school, depending on how long it takes to get into a specialist college and finish it. quite difficult.
medicine is appealing for some due to the academic stimulation, the pure interest, ability to help others - feel yourself being needed, among other things. i would frown upon anyone who went into medicine purely for the social prestige, money, title and so on.
Believe me, its the money. Even if they don't admit it. You can't be born to love medicine out of interest.
^ what a generlisation, so many will disagree with that, im not sure on this forum but in general! well i've spoke to quite a few people who want to do medicine, and none of them told me they did it for money.
i couldn't care less about money, and i want to study medicine? it appears to be me to be very interesting? does this make me an exception?!
i think not..
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I care about VCE so I can get into my desired course.
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Who would tell you they are doing medicine for money? Lol that would just sound too greedy for money.
would it ever occur to you that some people don't actually care that much about money?
besides there are so many other jobs that are paid better from the start and are much easier.
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Then why do they want to do it then?
such ignorance. i just said reasons before..
&&also
considering that being a doctor, you are working most of the time and studying most of the time. its often difficult to have that much of a life outside of it. people would not be able to tolerate such a demanding job unless they enjoyed in someway what they were doing. its a hell of a stressful job that takes us so much of ones time, and you also need to study on top of this.
why would anyone want to do a job like this if it was just for money when there are other jobs out there?
beleive it or not, some people actually choose a job they are interested in!
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"If you are doing it for money, there is a commerce building across the road".
Absolutely true. People who think medicine will get them rich are right HOWEVER, this is probably the highest paid occupation but not the highest paid opportunity. The world's richest are mostly-all business people. People who think the only way to earn money is through working is kinda LOL.
actually doctors do not get paid very much at all until after they specialise and the amount of time doctors are working/studying is more than the majority of all other jobs, and what they get paid for that is very little. you wont be earning that much until 10-15 years from med school, depending on how long it takes to get into a specialist college and finish it. quite difficult.
medicine is appealing for some due to the academic stimulation, the pure interest, ability to help others - feel yourself being needed, among other things. i would frown upon anyone who went into medicine purely for the social prestige, money, title and so on.
Believe me, its the money. Even if they don't admit it. You can't be born to love medicine out of interest.
Oh. I actually wanted to be a Psychiatrist because as lame as this sounds, I want/like to help people, and they get paid the least out of all the medical specialties. Also Scrubs. Scrubs helped increase my love for medicine. Anyway, I don't want to do medicine anymore even though I'm still interested is because I know that even if I got in (which is unlikely) I wouldn't be able to cope. So instead I'm going to be a Psychologist who gets paid crap-all and I might pursue that through an Arts Degree which gets a lot of "omg what/this is useless/you're going to end up living in a box/but you can't even draw!!!" from my parents and other people -_-.
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^ i'm not sure where you get this information from that "most think its easy money" when you'd have to be quite daft to actual think it is in anyway easy, sure the money is good after 10~15 years but thats such a long time away when you can start earning "easy money" with other jobs relatively fast.
there isn't an interview process for a no reason at most uni's - the interviewers are trained to pick out those with geniune interest from those who are feigning it.
people are starting to be more aware of the difficulties & stress of being a doctor, even if it is not fully understood.
in the book i'm reading, it was saying how the medical professions have the highest suicide rate, and the second highest alcohol/drug abuse rate. second from bartenders :P which that was slightly surprising!
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Yeah, dentists have the highest suicide rate, I think, which isn't that surpising since it seems like everyone hates them. Aw. And then some of them can't cope with inflicting so much pain on people, especially children.
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Then why do they want to do it then?
beleive it or not, some people actually choose a job they are interested in!
Some - a extreme small proportion.
Btw - it is great that you realise its a stressful job. Many do not realise that until they step in. Most think its easy money.
Anyone who is going to succeed and be happy must work a job which they are interested in. Sure you can succeed for a few years in a high paying job just for the money, but is that the way you want to live? Think of the subject you liked the least. Now think of donig that subject for 40-70 hours a week. Is that the way you want to live?? Anyone who has the foresight to consider such things will choose a field in which they have interest.
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Is it just me, or has ken deleted most of his posts in this thread? I'm getting confused with where people are quoting him...
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He deleted all his posts...not cool :knuppel2:
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He deleted all his posts...not cool :knuppel2:
Maybe he was too embarrassed at the amount of people quoting him?
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Is it just me, or has ken deleted most of his posts in this thread? I'm getting confused with where people are quoting him...
Yeah, I think he has, I'm confused as heck too :P
At least all his posts have been quoted. Deleting posts in a debate is lame, dude. Even if the majority don't agree with you.
Perhaps you're getting mixed up with 'looking down' vs. 'not looking up'. I don't know many people who look down upon commerce or engineering.
Perhaps not engineering, but I know people who look down on commerce and arts (I know a lot of very stuck up people, most of whom do law... coincidence? -_-)
Arts because there is this (erroneous) conception that arts subjects are easy and all arts students are therefore slackers. I'm not sure why commerce though.
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as if he deleted all his posts!
>_____________<!!!!!!
gladly i quoted him and all, maybe he didn't like that he was wrong about something ?
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could have* would have*
/lol sorry
I care about VCE because:
-I have a sibling who did ~amazingly (sort of)
-My parents compare me to said sibling and family friends even though they want to be a doctor and I'm not 'ambitious' enough to be one
-Bragging rights
-Getting into Uni
-I think I suck at everything so I end up working harder (see, there is a good thing about having shocking self-esteem)
-I have a Ron Weasley inferiority complex where I am always second best compared with my friend/sibling so I really, really want to do well in VCE since there aren't any lockets around for me to stab
Btw med students have a drop out rate of like 50%.
Source?
My specialist maths teacher (his grand daughter was doing a med degree and he was saying how the number left after the first year is around 50% of what started).
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It annoys me as well, why is it that Med is the only course that is looked at with admiration?
Why do some people consider Commerce/Engineering a second rate/or often third rate kind of degree?
Take me - I want to do Commerce. However, I often find people telling me, 'oh you work so hard, you're going to do so well and you could do so much better than that' - ???
If it's in terms of the pay; people in Commerce do earn quite high salaries. The Maths needed for Actuarial Studies cannot be underestimated. I don't understand why some people look down on Commerce and other degrees such as Engineering/Arts. In the end, it's the individual's interest as to what he/she wants to do.
Tell them that actuaries start on 95k and have something like 7k added to their salary per year of experience. For those of you who want sources, look up the actuarial studies brochure for BComm.
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Siff delete all your posts, now the whole argument appears so random.
Perhaps you're getting mixed up with 'looking down' vs. 'not looking up'. I don't know many people who look down upon commerce or engineering.
Perhaps not engineering, but I know people who look down on commerce and arts (I know a lot of very stuck up people, most of whom do law... coincidence? -_-)
Arts because there is this (erroneous) conception that arts subjects are easy and all arts students are therefore slackers. I'm not sure why commerce though.
haha, yeah I know some people with a bit of an elitist attitude, and arts comes in for a bit of flak (this could also be due to these people's inclination towards science) but not so for commerce.
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No one likes working. Pay is the motivation to work.
EDIT: sorry I was trying to quote this post and accidentally edited it and deleted my comments :-[. uh yeah the general gist was you should aim to enjoy what you are working in.
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That's why it should be your aim to try and enter a field that you enjoy.
As Confucius once said:
"Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life."
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ken. i think you should really stop thinking that everything you are believe is correct.
everyone is different.
do not much such unfounded generalizations.
sheesshhh
no one likes working?!
there are so many people who love there jobs!!
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Then why do they want to do it then?
beleive it or not, some people actually choose a job they are interested in!
Some - a extreme small proportion.
Btw - it is great that you realise its a stressful job. Many do not realise that until they step in. Most think its easy money.
Anyone who is going to succeed and be happy must work a job which they are interested in. Sure you can succeed for a few years in a high paying job just for the money, but is that the way you want to live? Think of the subject you liked the least. Now think of donig that subject for 40-70 hours a week. Is that the way you want to live?? Anyone who has the foresight to consider such things will choose a field in which they have interest.
No one likes working. Pay is the motivation to work.
Who says no one likes working? People are motivated to stay in their jobs through job satisfaction. Pay is one of the many factors that add to this extrinsic reward. Just like people research not for the money, but to expand and develop their interest on a particular field.
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Then why do they want to do it then?
beleive it or not, some people actually choose a job they are interested in!
Some - a extreme small proportion.
Btw - it is great that you realise its a stressful job. Many do not realise that until they step in. Most think its easy money.
Anyone who is going to succeed and be happy must work a job which they are interested in. Sure you can succeed for a few years in a high paying job just for the money, but is that the way you want to live? Think of the subject you liked the least. Now think of donig that subject for 40-70 hours a week. Is that the way you want to live?? Anyone who has the foresight to consider such things will choose a field in which they have interest.
No one likes working. Pay is the motivation to work.
WHAT?! I am doing a degree and i am not at ALL motivated by the money.
Laugh at me all u like, but im going to have my chosen career because it interested me form a child/teenager....i dont even know how much they get paid....so how can I be motivated by pay?
THEORETICALLY pay does motivate people to work, but when I did work experience for 2 weeks i got paid a lousy $5 a DAY from 9-5 doing the same field as I plan to work in, and it was one of the most enjoyable experiences I had.
I had a job in retail, got paid HEAPS in comparison to workers at hungry jacks, maccas etc, yet I quit....pay didnt motivate me at all to work.
Choosing a career based on pay just limits ur options.
I am currently unemployed, and can EASILY go back to the former job I had which paid well, but I am not.
Teachers used to get paid like crap, yet they still WORKED, Why? Because they ENJOYED IT, u think any human would want to educate a group of loud, noisy, kids? Nope, only those passionate to do it, regardless of pay
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This thread has been restored, kenhung please do not delete it again or I will remove your deletion privileges.
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Extra money becomes nearly useless after you get a lot of it.
Lots of people earn so much money and realise there's nothing to show for it. So they buy a new shiny car, a few penthouses, and a new wife even... and they're still unfulfilled.
I recommend reading The 4-Hour Workweek, by Timothy Ferriss. It's not about making a lot of money, it's about making time and money, and making a lot of satisfaction for yourself.
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So they buy ... a new wife
LOL
WHAT?! I am doing a degree and i am not at ALL motivated by the money.
WTF I thought you were doing VCE:
I don't need an ENTER in the 90's, I have the option of going to TAFE, yet I am studying, well STUDIED really hard
...
I just want the BARE MINIMUM to get into my course
I'm doing law to help my job prospects, does that count as motivated by money? :P I don't want to be a big-time barrister though (that's where all the money is), I want to be a lecturer, translator or musician... *prepares cardboard box*
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I think he means the degree he's doing next year lol
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and also, people (like ninwa if she becomes a musician) who their JOBS are musicians/actors/ect---> most of the arty jobs are all chosen for their PASSION in that area.
most poeple who are playing music, making art and so on as a career, they enjoy working:)
they do not hate working and just want money .__.
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and also, people (like ninwa if she becomes a musician) who their JOBS are musicians/actors/ect---> most of the arty jobs are all chosen for their PASSION in that area.
most poeple who are playing music, making art and so on as a career, they enjoy working:)
they do not hate working and just want money .__.
I don't consider that working.
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So they buy ... a new wife
LOL
WHAT?! I am doing a degree and i am not at ALL motivated by the money.
WTF I thought you were doing VCE:
I don't need an ENTER in the 90's, I have the option of going to TAFE, yet I am studying, well STUDIED really hard
...
I just want the BARE MINIMUM to get into my course
omg, I just read what I wrote. I have absolutely no idea why I phrased it like that.
I meant, the degree I PLAN to do. Sorry for any confusion caused.
LOL, nah what you plan to do Ninwa is smart :D I get ur reasoning behind it, wise move.
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and also, people (like ninwa if she becomes a musician) who their JOBS are musicians/actors/ect---> most of the arty jobs are all chosen for their PASSION in that area.
most poeple who are playing music, making art and so on as a career, they enjoy working:)
they do not hate working and just want money .__.
I don't consider that working.
so you admit that when someone enjoys themselves, its not considered work.
i reckon money can be a motivator but unless you enjoy the field you have chosen, you will not pursue it for long
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and also, people (like ninwa if she becomes a musician) who their JOBS are musicians/actors/ect---> most of the arty jobs are all chosen for their PASSION in that area.
most poeple who are playing music, making art and so on as a career, they enjoy working:)
they do not hate working and just want money .__.
I don't consider that working.
expand please? Like what do you mean/why? What do YOU consider as working? Maybe theres a mis-undestanding between us all ><
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I think you are mixing 'hate' and 'enjoy'. If you don't hate it, you will do it for the money. If you enjoy it, well good for you. If people like working so much, why do they look forward to long service, holidays, etc? Isn't it a punishment to keep you away from what you 'enjoy'?
ah nice point in ur final line. That's a valid question.
LOL, i think it comes down to, we are humans ><
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I think you are mixing 'hate' and 'enjoy'. If you don't hate it, you will do it for the money. If you enjoy it, well good for you. If people like working so much, why do they look forward to long service, holidays, etc? Isn't it a punishment to keep you away from what you 'enjoy'?
I think you are making a leap in logic.
Your contention was that no-one enjoys work (as well as suggesting that people are motivated only by money when they choose careers) and your supporting evidence is that people look forward to long service or holidays. But the reason people look forward to long service leave or holidays is that you always need a break. You say that no-one likes working. I think that there are a large number of people who don't like working. But there are also a large number who do enjoy what they do. And these people would see their holidays as a break from work or a chance to go overseas and enrich their lives a bit. A teacher of mine a couple of years ago absolutely loves teaching and is famous for it but went overseas for a term. So what?
No it comes down to the fact that we want money.
What about all those that volunteer for things. I know people who are heavily involved in volunteer work. They don't get anything out of it other than a bit of fulfillment and some interesting times. What about the people who donate that money that we apparently all want to help others.
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Money is essential, but enjoyment is also essential. One should learn to find a balance between those 2.
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No it comes down to the fact that we want money.
http://www.easytraining.com/motivation.htm suggests otherwise.
You will find that it is a combination of all the factors in the pyramid, also look at the dot points below, more are about social needs etc than money
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Money is essential, but enjoyment is also essential. One should learn to find a balance between those 2.
Take TrueTears as an example actually. If TT became a professor in maths and earned a lot of money, then would you say TT doesn't enjoy maths, he's just in it for the money?
Or would you accept that he actually loves math and that's why he's a professor in math...
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OK: Most people don't enjoy working. I don't think this change anything anyway. I don't understand why you are all so furious about it lol.
I'm pretty sure no-one's furious. At least I'm not. Just enjoying this discussion. If anyone would be a bit annoyed it's because you have assumed that everyone's self-interested and that altruism doesn't exist.
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I think you are mixing 'hate' and 'enjoy'. If you don't hate it, you will do it for the money. If you enjoy it, well good for you. If people like working so much, why do they look forward to long service, holidays, etc? Isn't it a punishment to keep you away from what you 'enjoy'?
No it comes down to the fact that we want money.
What about all those that volunteer for things. I know people who are heavily involved in volunteer work. They don't get anything out of it other than a bit of fulfillment and some interesting times. What about the people who donate that money that we apparently all want to help others.
Volunteering is an excellent example.
BTW Ken, nobody, well a least i;m not meaning to sound that I am furious, I think everyone is just trying to see where you're coming from...like there isn't an ANSWER.
Some people are motivated by money
Some people by passion
Nobody can say one's more important than another...simple as that
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No it comes down to the fact that we want money.
sure. of course you think that with your distorted views on the world. I'm not even gonna bother with this or the comment before on not considering the Arty professions as working. have a good life being miserable and caring only about money in a job you hate. becAuse trust me, there are better things in life then money- not that you'd know.
if it makes you feel any better. pretend we are all as miserable as you.
I hope your ignorance about the world doesn't go away becAuSE you'll feel like An idiot when you find out.
good day :)
edit. sorry slow I'm on a phone.
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Money is essential, but enjoyment is also essential. One should learn to find a balance between those 2.
Take TrueTears as an example actually. If TT became a professor in maths and earned a lot of money, then would you say TT doesn't enjoy maths, he's just in it for the money?
Or would you accept that he actually loves math and that's why he's a professor in math...
I never said no one can't enjoy and want to earn money at the same time
You missed the point.... what's driving True Tears?
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Take TrueTears as an example actually. If TT became a professor in maths and earned a lot of money, then would you say TT doesn't enjoy maths, he's just in it for the money?
Or would you accept that he actually loves math and that's why he's a professor in math...
I never said no one can't enjoy and want to earn money at the same time
No one likes working. Pay is the motivation to work.
That's just how I interpreted it then I guess. soz
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If you enjoy it then good for you. But if you don't then the only motivation is your weekly pay.
basically agreed then cool :)
Although I'm still a bit uncomfortable with the assumption of self-interest but anywayz
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I just found this article which I think fits in perfectly
" I remember when Evanescence blasted through the gates when their first album, “Fallen,” came out. For a few months, they were the talk of the music world (at least to those who loved their combination of heavy metal and gothic rock). But as quickly as they sold 15 million copies of “Fallen,” they sank just as fast when their second album fizzled.
Despite the steep slide, Evanescence is still busy out on the road and is working on a third album, with a release date of some time in 2010. Continuing after a blizzard of bad breaks is really the only thing a musician can do. It’s an admirable trait that proves you can never stop a musician from making music.
KEY POINT >>>>>I’ve seen this kind of undying passion firsthand, as I know a few musicians myself. And while none of them has hit the dizzying heights experienced by Evanescence, they’ve climbed some pretty impressive hills<<<<<<. One friend’s band, The Unband, toured with Def Leppard, was included in the "Scary Movie" soundtrack and got to shoot a video with Billy Squier and a bunch of hot models. "
Basically Evanescence's group all broke up except 1 or 2 people, and their second album was a complete flop, yet they still plan to return.....but why would a band who already have enough money too live of till they die, keep wasting time making more music.....well because of the passion. They don't need money anymore, but it comes with it as a bonus.
SOURCE: http://www.uticaod.com/lifestyles/x1945276809/David-Rogers-The-Icky-music-shuffle
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Well this is what I was going to post before it got deleted...
No one likes working. Pay is the motivation to work.
Most of the factors associated with job satisfaction are intrinsic.
But you must maximise how much you like it. If you work in a field you love then it doesn't feel like work.
It is also a question of how far will you go to get more money. Would you abandon your hobbies and interests? Would you sacrifice family and friends? If you insatiably chase money you will end up with nothing else but work. In the end what can money buy? How important is money? What do people normally so with their excess money anyway? They invest it, for what? To get more money. You really only need enough money to live and retire comfortably for yourself [including family] and to be able to help those around you.
Would you want to work a job that you dislike 50 hours a week until your 70-75 just because when you were young you cared only for money?
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I want to be an Actuary because I love Maths and also because it's well rewarded.
I consider it a privilege, to have found a career pathway that is what I'm interested in and holds great rewards.
I think it's wrong to dismiss everyone as 'in it for money' because most people are often in something because they enjoy it. Imagine how you'd feel waking up every day if you had to do a job you didn't like. You'd feel so depressed, even if it paid heaps.
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I want to be an Actuary because I love Maths and also because it's well rewarded.
I consider it a privilege, to have found a career pathway that is what I'm interested in and holds great rewards.
I think it's wrong to dismiss everyone as 'in it for money' because most people are often in something because they enjoy it. Imagine how you'd feel waking up every day if you had to do a job you didn't like. You'd feel so depressed, even if it paid heaps.
I agree
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It's less maths than it sounds like :/
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Really??? :(
Just out of interest, which career does involve the most Maths?
*changes career path immediately*
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It's just what I heard on an actuary forum. Apparently you have to do a lot of business theory and learn all these regulations. There are certain exams you do to become qualified, and the more exams you do the less math-y and more theory based they become.
But I guess it would still involve mathematics, just a lot of other stuff too.
If you want a career that involves the most maths, become a math professor ;p
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How do you do that - phD in Maths?
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Are you changing courses ILMM?
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How do you do that - phD in Maths?
I guess so... I'm not saying actuarial isn't a good career, it's got great hours and pay (after you've finished the exams), but maybe not if you want to solely focus on maths
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Get a PhD in Pure Maths if you want to concentrate entirely on Maths.
The pay is still alright for Maths Professor but not as much as commerce-related mathematics.
But I would seriously doubt it if you can do a commerce-related maths major and not learn any business theory. It's commerce afterall, you need to know some commerce background heh
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I remember a teacher I had last year told us his son was studying to become an actuary. It took him 7 years overall to finally pass his exams as he kept on failing them. Mind you, he was a 99+ student, and this was at Melb Uni. But don't let this deter you
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But don't let this deter you
hahaha, the equivalent to
"Tomorrow is doomsday, but don't get scared"
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But don't let this deter you
hahaha, the equivalent to
"Tomorrow is doomsday, but don't get scared"
haha, but you shouldn't let one opinion stop you from following your dream
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But don't let this deter you
hahaha, the equivalent to
"Tomorrow is doomsday, but don't get scared"
haha, but you shouldn't let one opinion stop you from following your dream
True true, I'm just poking fun haha.
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How do you do that - phD in Maths?
That doesn't sound to bad. You can teach Uni level or write text books or maybe even write the VCAA exams eventually lol. =P
TC,
Souljette<3
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Get a PhD in Pure Maths if you want to concentrate entirely on Maths.
The pay is still alright for Maths Professor but not as much as commerce-related mathematics.
But I would seriously doubt it if you can do a commerce-related maths major and not learn any business theory. It's commerce afterall, you need to know some commerce background heh
You can't be anymore focussed on maths than as a maths professor.
Pure maths is a geat area of maths! It is where you focus on the theory and do very little application. I have always believed that it is a privilege to have knowledge on the really interesting areas of physics and maths, so I have always been drawn to looking at those subjects, hence, why I am doing a mathematical physics major.
You do get questioned about what careers your degree will offer you and that I sort of don't know. I want to become an academic (but it seems so esoteric), I guess it would be good to have some form of good paying job to fall back onto if you can't enter that world.
My friend is doing actuarial studies (first year so mind you he has only done one subject of it - also a 99+ achiever at melbourne) and he so far is loving it. Mind you he is very competitively driven, he mainly focussed on his VCE studies for that reason. I also know a friend of his who was also a 99+ achiever doing a maths major (I think he is considering actuarial studies, a lot of high achieving students planning on a maths major do consider actuarial studies). Apparently its not until the second year of your actuarial degree that you find out if you are cut for the career.
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I deeply regretted not pursuing Actuarial Studies a little bit after deciding I loved Commerce in late 2nd year / early 3rd year. Now I'm over it -- and happy with going ahead to finishing my degree (the Engineering part), and found other fields (entrepreneurship, marketing and communication, user experience and design) that I love that have distracted me from the attractive career path of Actuarial Studies.
Although even that anecdote about learning market regulation scares me from Actuarial, and makes me feel a bit better about not learning it. I stick with a pretty theoretical subset of Commerce (Economics and Finance). Accounting is more practical, and will delve into the yucky regulatory details.
(BTW, I heard with becoming an actuary that once you pass the exams -- I made that sound way easier than it is -- you're set! The hours aren't standard, not extreme, and you are paid a lot, but that's an aside)
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I don't consider that working.
So... take musician for example. Practising 8 hours a day. Going to endless rehearsals with chamber groups and orchestras, sometimes needing to travel to do so. Studying music theory. Teaching/lecturing (because only the very very best can make a living purely out of performance). Learning new repertoire.
Go into a place like VCA or ANAM and tell them what they're doing isn't really work, I dare you :P
If anyone would be a bit annoyed it's because you have assumed that everyone's self-interested and that altruism doesn't exist.
Off-topic point (but what about this thread isn't off-topic?) but I actually believe that humans are innately selfish. Even those who volunteer their time, for example, do it partly because of how good it makes them feel. Just my (depressing?) view on the world :P
No it comes down to the fact that we want money.
Of course we want money. We kind of need it to live. But I would think that for most of us, it is not #1 on our lists.
Also why the hell is the topic "ultimate dispute", I'm changing it back to what it was before
AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE SMILEYS?!?!
edit: nvm they're back =\
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I don't consider that working.
Go into a place like VCA or ANAM and tell them what they're doing isn't really work, I dare you :P
If anyone would be a bit annoyed it's because you have assumed that everyone's self-interested and that altruism doesn't exist.
Off-topic point (but what about this thread isn't off-topic?) but I actually believe that humans are innately selfish. Even those who volunteer their time, for example, do it partly because of how good it makes them feel. Just my (depressing?) view on the world :P
No it comes down to the fact that we want money.
Also why the hell is the topic "ultimate dispute", I'm changing it back to what it was before
I thought the exact same thing.... >< I waited for some1 to pick it up, incase I was being too picky.
And no, it isn't ur depressing view of the world. It's true, deep down some people (and its normal!) do stuff/volunteering etc for selfish reasons (selfish sounds harsh in this context).
But I get what you mean :D don't worry you're/we're not evil
And regarding ur comment about "i dare you" my friend, she did the craziest thing. She failed a test, and told the art teacher "this subject is useless and un-important compared to science and maths. I'm not even going to use it in life"
And they both got into an argument in front of the whole class, like it was calm and all, but every 10 minutes the teacher would think of a rebuttal and tell the girl, and the girl would reply soon after, then a pause of a 10-15 minutes, and it went on again. LOL
As u can tell, i fail with quote boxes =(
I want to like have your quote....space (insert my reply to you)....ur next quote (insert my reply) etc. But when I try, my reply gets mixed up within ur quote box. FAIL.
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I don't consider that working.
So... take musician for example. Practising 8 hours a day. Going to endless rehearsals with chamber groups and orchestras, sometimes needing to travel to do so. Studying music theory. Teaching/lecturing (because only the very very best can make a living purely out of performance). Learning new repertoire.
Go into a place like VCA or ANAM and tell them what they're doing isn't really work, I dare you :P
If anyone would be a bit annoyed it's because you have assumed that everyone's self-interested and that altruism doesn't exist.
Off-topic point (but what about this thread isn't off-topic?) but I actually believe that humans are innately selfish. Even those who volunteer their time, for example, do it partly because of how good it makes them feel. Just my (depressing?) view on the world :P
No it comes down to the fact that we want money.
Of course we want money. We kind of need it to live. But I would think that for most of us, it is not #1 on our lists.
Also why the hell is the topic "ultimate dispute", I'm changing it back to what it was before
AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE SMILEYS?!?!
edit: nvm they're back =\
There is absolutely no way I would go into VCA and say they aren't working. I would walk out severely bashed.
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Heres what i was going to write before the thread magically vanished:
The thread is right, there are a lot of easier jobs.
I go to a methods tutor for example - It's his only job, to just tutor all day but out of it he does make a killing. He see's at least 2 classes a day, with around 5 students in each, 50 bucks each student.
So, 2(classes)*5(students)*7(days)*50 = a shitload (i was never good at math i guess that's why i need him but its roughly bare minimum $3500 a week).
Now, some people, if they're good enough at math, could do that straight out of VCE. I mean sure it'd be boring and maybe un-fulfilling but you'd make a killing.
He lives in a very nice house (which im sure ive paid a decent chunk off for him), yes he is asian and his son and daughter are both doctors. By almost all measures he is very successful.
(on a side note it is kind of akward being the only white guy ive ever seen there)
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I don't consider that working.
So... take musician for example. Practising 8 hours a day. Going to endless rehearsals with chamber groups and orchestras, sometimes needing to travel to do so. Studying music theory. Teaching/lecturing (because only the very very best can make a living purely out of performance). Learning new repertoire.
Go into a place like VCA or ANAM and tell them what they're doing isn't really work, I dare you :P
If anyone would be a bit annoyed it's because you have assumed that everyone's self-interested and that altruism doesn't exist.
Off-topic point (but what about this thread isn't off-topic?) but I actually believe that humans are innately selfish. Even those who volunteer their time, for example, do it partly because of how good it makes them feel. Just my (depressing?) view on the world :P
No it comes down to the fact that we want money.
Of course we want money. We kind of need it to live. But I would think that for most of us, it is not #1 on our lists.
Also why the hell is the topic "ultimate dispute", I'm changing it back to what it was before
AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE SMILEYS?!?!
edit: nvm they're back =\
There is absolutely no way I would go into VCA and say they aren't working. I would walk out severely bashed.
That's if you walk out... alive... :(