ATAR Notes: Forum

VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: luken93 on April 08, 2010, 09:40:49 am

Title: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: luken93 on April 08, 2010, 09:40:49 am
While I was bored and with the help of vexx, I have converted the placement among the state to the number of people in the state.
Feel free to comment, or if you would like me to add more Subjects let me know

I know that there are a few inconsistencies (ie. SS 1-5), but I don't anticipate that anyone on VN will be under 10 haha

I've also attached the excel version if you are interested.

Thanks
Luke

I used Mean=30
STDEV=7

And for the number of students:
VCAA 2009 Statistics

***NOTE*** - This is purely statistical, as m@tty pointed out these aren't the real figures for reasons given below, it should only be used as a guide/bragging rights to parents/friends haha




Study Score


 1
 2
 3
 4
 5
 6
 7
 8
 9
 10
 11
 12
 13
 14
 15
 16
 17
 18
 19
 20
 21
 22
 23
 24
 25
 26
 27
 28
 29
 30
 31
 32
 33
 34
 35
 36
 37
 38
 39
 40
 41
 42
 43
 44
 45
 46
 47
 48
 49
 50
    % of students above the SS            


99.8285%
99.8274%
99.8255%
99.8221%
99.8162%
99.8065%
99.7903%
99.7643%
99.7232%
99.6595%
99.5627%
99.4187%
99.2088%
98.9089%
98.4893%
97.9138%
97.1405%
96.1225%
94.8091%
93.1490%
91.0929%
88.5978%
85.6309%
82.1742%
78.2280%
73.8139%
68.9760%
63.7805%
58.3135%
52.6769%
46.9826%
41.3459%
35.8790%
30.6835%
25.8456%
21.4315%
17.4853%
14.0286%
11.0617%
8.5665%
6.5105%
4.8504%
3.5370%
2.5189%
1.7457%
1.1702%
0.7505%
0.4507%
0.2408%
0.0968%
No. of students above this SS in:
Total Number of People In Subject:


















































    English    
42624


42551
42550
42550
42548
42546
42542
42535
42524
42506
42479
42438
42376
42287
42159
41980
41735
41405
40971
40411
39704
38827
37764
36499
35026
33344
31462
29400
27186
24856
22453
20026
17623
15293
13079
11016
9135
7453
5980
4715
3651
2775
2067
1508
1074
744
499
320
192
103
41
    Chemistry    
8863


8848
8848
8848
8847
8847
8846
8844
8842
8838
8833
8824
8811
8793
8766
8729
8678
8610
8519
8403
8256
8074
7852
7589
7283
6933
6542
6113
5653
5168
4669
4164
3664
3180
2719
2291
1899
1550
1243
980
759
577
430
313
223
155
104
67
40
21
9
    Physics    
7004


6992
6992
6992
6992
6991
6990
6989
6987
6985
6980
6973
6963
6949
6928
6898
6858
6804
6732
6640
6524
6380
6205
5998
5755
5479
5170
4831
4467
4084
3689
3291
2896
2513
2149
1810
1501
1225
983
775
600
456
340
248
176
122
82
53
32
17
7
    Methods CAS    
7189


7177
7177
7176
7176
7176
7175
7174
7172
7169
7165
7158
7147
7132
7111
7080
7039
6983
6910
6816
6696
6549
6369
6156
5908
5624
5306
4959
4585
4192
3787
3378
2972
2579
2206
1858
1541
1257
1009
795
616
468
349
254
181
125
84
54
32
17
7
    Specialist    
4782


4774
4774
4774
4773
4773
4773
4772
4771
4769
4766
4761
4754
4744
4730
4710
4682
4645
4597
4534
4454
4356
4237
4095
3930
3741
3530
3298
3050
2789
2519
2247
1977
1716
1467
1236
1025
836
671
529
410
311
232
169
120
83
56
36
22
12
5
    Business Management    
12614


12592
12592
12592
12592
12591
12590
12588
12584
12579
12571
12559
12541
12514
12476
12423
12351
12253
12125
11959
11750
11490
11176
10801
10365
9868
9311
8701
8045
7356
6645
5926
5215
4526
3870
3260
2703
2206
1770
1395
1081
821
612
446
318
220
148
95
57
30
12
     Accounting     
6625


6614
6614
6613
6613
6613
6612
6611
6609
6607
6602
6596
6586
6573
6553
6525
6487
6436
6368
6281
6171
6035
5870
5673
5444
5183
4890
4570
4225
3863
3490
3113
2739
2377
2033
1712
1420
1158
929
733
568
431
321
234
167
116
78
50
30
16
6
    Biology    
10906


10887
10887
10887
10887
10886
10885
10883
10880
10876
10869
10858
10843
10820
10787
10741
10678
10594
10483
10340
10159
9935
9662
9339
8962
8532
8050
7523
6956
6360
5745
5124
4509
3913
3346
2819
2337
1907
1530
1206
934
710
529
386
275
190
128
82
49
26
11
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: m@tty on April 08, 2010, 11:58:26 am
Not to try and ruin your thing, buut check this out. It appears your numbers are way off... :|

Just one example: Your table says that there are 41 50's in English, where in reality there are closer to 100...
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: jimmy999 on April 08, 2010, 12:03:54 pm
Not to try and ruin your thing, buut check this out. It appears your numbers are way off... :|

Just one example: Your table says that there are 41 50's in English, where in reality there are closer to 100...

Statistically speaking there should only be 41 50s in English because that's how the bell curve is meant to work. However if 100 people get full marks on all assessments, then you'd have to give a 50 to all those people as you wouldn't be able to distinguish them. Pretty much scores above 45 are hard to get accurate
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: kyzoo on April 08, 2010, 12:40:59 pm
Statistically speaking there should only be 41 50s in English because that's how the bell curve is meant to work. However if 100 people get full marks on all assessments, then you'd have to give a 50 to all those people as you wouldn't be able to distinguish them. Pretty much scores above 45 are hard to get accurate

I'm pretty sure you don't need to get full marks on all assessments to get a 50 in English.
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: luken93 on April 08, 2010, 12:44:15 pm
Not to try and ruin your thing, buut check this out. It appears your numbers are way off... :|

Just one example: Your table says that there are 41 50's in English, where in reality there are closer to 100...
haha thats ok, was doing it the way jimmy said.
If I were REALLY bored I could go through every subject, but reading my book for English has the upper hand at the moment haha

Statistically speaking there should only be 41 50s in English because that's how the bell curve is meant to work. However if 100 people get full marks on all assessments, then you'd have to give a 50 to all those people as you wouldn't be able to distinguish them. Pretty much scores above 45 are hard to get accurate

I'm pretty sure you don't need to get full marks on all assessments to get a 50 in English.
And surely in that top 100 or so who get a 50, surely you could differentiate 41 of them being better than the rest, although I've never seen any 50er's English exam, maybe I could be the first one I read hahahahahahah

That is never going to happen

Honestly do you have to be naturally talented to get 45+ in English. Even if I wrote 1 essay per week next year, I still don't think I could get 45+.

I know that a wide vocab definately helps, but it is essential that you use "big" words to do well in English

Or is it just answering all the right questions that should be answered in your essay?

Jimmy you are probably a good example of this, obviously by your marks you are an exceptionally talented kid, so why do you believe that you only got 35 compare to your other subjects (I don't mean to be harsh if it sounds like it, just a matter of opinion)

Thanks
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: kyzoo on April 08, 2010, 01:03:26 pm
I know that a wide vocab definately helps, but it is essential that you use "big" words to do well in English

It's more the apt usage of vocab rather than using big words. I can guarantee you that if you try to be bombastic at every opportunity in your piece, it will be worse than if you had written it in your natural style.
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: the.watchman on April 08, 2010, 01:06:11 pm
I know that a wide vocab definately helps, but it is essential that you use "big" words to do well in English

It's more the apt usage of vocab rather than using big words. I can guarantee you that if you try to be bombastic at every opportunity in your piece, it will be worse than if you had written it in your natural style.

I definitely agree on this one, it's all about the flow of the essay, if you can write it using sophisticated expression, but it sounds like it came straight out of the thesaurus, then you will be marked harshly.
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: brightsky on April 08, 2010, 01:08:31 pm

Honestly do you have to be naturally talented to get 45+ in English. Even if I wrote 1 essay per week next year, I still don't think I could get 45+.


I don't think merely churning out heaps of essays would improve your English.
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: stonecold on April 08, 2010, 01:09:48 pm
^ not big words, just appropriate words.  good exploration of themes, characterisation, stage directions, symbolism etc.
actually answering the essay topic in full is important, as many people try to alter their memorised essays so they will fit the question, which usually doesn't work.  also sometimes people will only answer part of the question.

and probably ~1000 words per piece as well.   fact is not matter how good you can write something in 600-700 words, there will always be others who can write a piece that is just as clear, succinct and concise as yours in 1000+ words.

i've personally got no idea how i'm going to manage 20 words/min, but i guess i'll just have to learn :P
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: kyzoo on April 08, 2010, 01:16:33 pm

Honestly do you have to be naturally talented to get 45+ in English. Even if I wrote 1 essay per week next year, I still don't think I could get 45+.


I don't think merely churning out heaps of essays would improve your English.

1 essay a week is hardly churning out heaps of essays
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: stonecold on April 08, 2010, 01:21:16 pm
yeah, 1 per week is probably a realistic goal for me.
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: GerrySly on April 08, 2010, 01:24:13 pm

Honestly do you have to be naturally talented to get 45+ in English. Even if I wrote 1 essay per week next year, I still don't think I could get 45+.


I don't think merely churning out heaps of essays would improve your English.

If you get them corrected and maybe go through each one you could definitely improve massively.

Like 3-4 essays a week (Monday - Essay, Tuesday - Correction, Wednesday - Essay, Thursday - Correction, Friday - Essay, Saturday - Rest, Sunday - Rest)
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: Albeno69 on April 08, 2010, 01:26:39 pm

Honestly do you have to be naturally talented to get 45+ in English. Even if I wrote 1 essay per week next year, I still don't think I could get 45+.


I don't think merely churning out heaps of essays would improve your English.

If you get them corrected and maybe go through each one you could definitely improve massively.

Like 3-4 essays a week (Monday - Essay, Tuesday - Correction, Wednesday - Essay, Thursday - Correction, Friday - Essay, Saturday - Rest, Sunday - Rest)
yea i said to my self im going to do something like this chun our few essays a week and get them corrected but after a month i gave up. lack of motivation to keep it up.
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: luken93 on April 08, 2010, 01:59:17 pm
^ Thanks for all the comments

I meant that if you naturally had a wider vocab, it definately helps the flow of the essay, as opposed to writing the same things with very limited words.

So what do you think can improve you to get 40+ in English.

I spose its hard to guess as to what you would get, but since my school had 7 out of 300 kids got 40+ in English, I'm hopeful for a 35.

So what would I need to do to improve from say a 35 to a 40, I've heard a lot of "get it corrected by your teacher", but I'm seriously questioning as to how quick they would correct it
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: AzureBlue on April 08, 2010, 02:01:57 pm
What kind of topics do they give for English Language essays?
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: GerrySly on April 08, 2010, 02:02:52 pm
So what would I need to do to improve from say a 35 to a 40, I've heard a lot of "get it corrected by your teacher", but I'm seriously questioning as to how quick they would correct it

Try out your teacher first, you'll be surprised. At our school (about half your school, 4/150 got 40+) the teachers were more than happy to correct fast because no one handed in things to correct.
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: kyzoo on April 08, 2010, 02:09:09 pm
So what would I need to do to improve from say a 35 to a 40, I've heard a lot of "get it corrected by your teacher", but I'm seriously questioning as to how quick they would correct it

Try out your teacher first, you'll be surprised. At our school (about half your school, 4/150 got 40+) the teachers were more than happy to correct fast because no one handed in things to correct.

>.< Opposite at our school

The head of English passed a condition that you cannot request any other English teacher other than your own to critique your work.
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: luken93 on April 08, 2010, 02:16:43 pm
So what would I need to do to improve from say a 35 to a 40, I've heard a lot of "get it corrected by your teacher", but I'm seriously questioning as to how quick they would correct it

Try out your teacher first, you'll be surprised. At our school (about half your school, 4/150 got 40+) the teachers were more than happy to correct fast because no one handed in things to correct.

>.< Opposite at our school

The head of English passed a condition that you cannot request any other English teacher other than your own to critique your work.
omg not at MGS!!! haha

Is it true that if you arrive a minute late to class you are locked out for the whole period?

My chem teacher was preaching this to us and telling us that thats what happened, "and this is the same school who got around 10 perfect ENTERs)
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: kyzoo on April 08, 2010, 02:19:16 pm
Is it true that if you arrive a minute late to class you are locked out for the whole period?

My chem teacher was preaching this to us and telling us that thats what happened, "and this is the same school who got around 10 perfect ENTERs)

0.o Depends on the teacher, maybe there are 1 or 2 who do that.
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: AzureBlue on April 08, 2010, 02:22:10 pm
Is it true that if you arrive a minute late to class you are locked out for the whole period?
My chem teacher was preaching this to us and telling us that thats what happened, "and this is the same school who got around 10 perfect ENTERs)
0.o Depends on the teacher, maybe there are 1 or 2 who do that.
Really :O
I don't think any of the teachers would do that at MGGS...
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: luken93 on April 08, 2010, 02:46:07 pm
so getting essays corrected is really the only way to improve??

Help me God haha
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: physics on April 08, 2010, 02:59:05 pm
WOW this is awesome i feel happier now :D
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: darkphoenix on April 09, 2010, 01:20:20 am
Haha nice dude, put accounting up!
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: vexx on April 09, 2010, 01:27:45 am
oh cool luken you made this - that's awesome!
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: EvangelionZeta on April 09, 2010, 01:29:08 am
Is it true that if you arrive a minute late to class you are locked out for the whole period?

My chem teacher was preaching this to us and telling us that thats what happened, "and this is the same school who got around 10 perfect ENTERs)

0.o Depends on the teacher, maybe there are 1 or 2 who do that.

Really?  I've never even encountered one like that...in fact, I don't think I've ever been consistently on-time to class with any one teacher...

On the topic of improving in English, it's really as they say.  You CAN work your way up - whilst natural aptitude will help things along, if you churn out an essay a day (and I do NOT do this, by the way.  Nowhere near.), you'll reap the benefits.  The only reason I can write the way I do is because of practice, practice and practice.

Also, if anyone is curious, from what I understand the English teachers being unable to correct other teachers' work at MGS is a result of certain individuals -coughkyzoomightbeoneofthemcough- submitting a LOT of work (I'm talking around 10 practice essays before a SAC, specifically for the SAC) and getting them marked by two or three teachers.  I'm illustrating this to show that even at a school like MGS, results aren't achieved just because of experienced teachers; the students are willing to work to their limits to achieve the marks they desire.
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: kyzoo on April 09, 2010, 01:41:53 am
Really?  I've never even encountered one like that...in fact, I don't think I've ever been consistently on-time to class with any one teacher...

Mr Doolan ;p

Also, if anyone is curious, from what I understand the English teachers being unable to correct other teachers' work at MGS is a result of certain individuals -coughkyzoomightbeoneofthemcough- submitting a LOT of work (I'm talking around 10 practice essays before a SAC, specifically for the SAC) and getting them marked by two or three teachers.

...Siff I can write 10 practice essays for a SAC -.- I only managed 5 for each so far, and I tried 4 teachers =)
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: Blakhitman on April 09, 2010, 02:27:26 am
I can barely write one essay for practice for a SAC :|
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: IntoTheNewWorld on April 09, 2010, 10:41:55 am
I can barely write one essay for practice for a SAC :|

I couldn't write a practice essay for the exam =\



yes I did fail.
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: luken93 on April 09, 2010, 07:02:51 pm
By reading all of this, I have come to the conclusion of...

There are simply not enough hours in the day
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: physics on April 09, 2010, 09:25:44 pm
By reading all of this, I have come to the conclusion of...

There are simply not enough hours in the day
LOL true that :P
8 hours sleep feels like an hour in dream mode..its too short
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: luken93 on April 09, 2010, 10:05:12 pm
...Siff I can write 10 practice essays for a SAC -.- I only managed 5 for each so far, and I tried 4 teachers =)
As a matter of interest how long does it take you to write a practice essay and where do you get the practice q's from?

Trying to get prepared as much as I can for next year
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: kyzoo on April 10, 2010, 01:15:51 am
0.o Practice Q's?

So far we only had Creative SAC for Context, and Issues SAC.

I got practice prompts and articles from the school, and there was more than enough for practice.

And don't ask me how long it takes to write a practice essay lol, because right now I have a problem with writing speed and am working on it.
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: luken93 on April 10, 2010, 08:06:26 am
0.o Practice Q's?

So far we only had Creative SAC for Context, and Issues SAC.

I got practice prompts and articles from the school, and there was more than enough for practice.

And don't ask me how long it takes to write a practice essay lol, because right now I have a problem with writing speed and am working on it.
haha, im not really sure what SAC's you do in yr 12 so it was probably a stupid question.

But say for like text response to one of the books you do, roughly how long does it take
ie. 1hr, 2hrs, 3hrs ????
Just as a rough guide to see how long it should take
I didn't mean to insult your slow writing speeds haha
Title: Re: Find out how many people YOU beat in the state in your subjects?
Post by: kyzoo on April 10, 2010, 02:28:08 pm
@ luken

I have not done a single text response this year as of yet

@ andrew

Yes, but barely anyone uses them in class in VCE