ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Technical Score Discussion => Topic started by: misskaraleah on April 12, 2008, 04:31:30 pm
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Hey guys
Ive heard that "ranking" is involved in detremining your ENTER score, yet im confused what they are actually ranking.
Are they ranking your ENTER score across the whole state, with students who are doing year 12, or do you get "ranked" in SACS amongst classmates?
Sorry im really confused about how it all works!
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SACs, exams, study score and ENTER are all ranked:
you SACs are ranked to give an overall ranking for the semester/year
your exam scores are then ranked in your cohort to given an exam ranking
then your SAC gets moderated with the ranking exam score: http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,581.msg12582.html#msg12582
then the total gets ranked in the state, and according to normal distribution, you get a study score
the total of study score (after scaling) then gets ranked and give u an ENTER (of percentile)
so :P
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So is class ranking or school ranking in sacs important or not? I heard that if your ranked 6th in sacs and you get ranked number one in the exam, you get marked up and get the results of the person who was number one in sacs?
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Yes. For example, if you get the lowest sac mark in the whole school but you get top in the exam, you will still get your exam mark but your sac mark will take the mark of the lowest mark scored on the exam.
3 People get these results on the sac (3 people in class)
45% 75% 95%
rank 3 rank 2 rank 1
But get the following exam results
60% 55% 20%
rank 1 rank 2 rank 3
Then their sac marks get moderated:
45%--> 20% rank 3 on the sac takes the rank 3 on the exam
75%-->55% rank 2 on the sac takes the rank 2 on the exam
95%-->60% rank 1 on the sac takes the rank 1 on the exam
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MY GOD that's confusing.
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WTF THATS BS.
What if you get 100% in the exam, and you're ranked last (but you got 95% on sacs :P ), but this kid whose smart in sacs (100%) choked on the exam and scored 50%, does that mean you'll get 100% for exam and 50% for SACS?!?!?!?!
so instead of A+ A+ A+ you'll get D D A+ ?
WTFFFF thats screwed. that can't be right.
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Yeh..no one said VCE was fair but only your sac mark will change in accordance with their exam mark. So your exam marks are yours.
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I'm going to make a complaint after VCE, about VCE LOL. ;)
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I'm going to make a complaint after VCE, about VCE LOL.
Even if you complain, they won't have time to implement it this year.
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That's why you need a really strong middle cohort and to rank really carefully.
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lol...im not number one in sacs, but I want to get the highest exam mark..So if i get the highest exam mark, il get the top sac marks, if i do the best?
Im not far behind in sacs, prob about 5th out of 100 students..
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lol...im not number one in sacs, but I want to get the highest exam mark..So if i get the highest exam mark, il get the top sac marks, if i do the best?
Im not far behind in sacs, prob about 5th out of 100 students..
If you are still 5th at the end of the year, your sac mark will be moderated up or down to match the 5th highest exam mark in the exam. If you get the highest exam mark, the person ranked highest in the sacs will have their sac mark substituted with the highest exam mark, if that makes sense
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That's why you need a really strong middle cohort and to rank really carefully.
Sorry, but whats a cohort? Ive never heard of that term :P
So. when you get ranked, its at your school and all the people who are doing that year 12 subject.
Lets just say in Legal, i get really high in my SACS, and ranked 1st oit of all of the people doing legals studies at my school, and i ace the exam, then what are the chances of me getting 50 SS?
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Cohort - A year level, a group of some sort :)
In terms of VCE, a cohort usually refers to the whole group of year 12s in the state.
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This thread is rife with misunderstandings of the statistical moderation process. You should probably read about it as explained by VCAA, as they might know what they're talking about. They even have pictures!
http://www.vcaa.vic.edu.au/vce/exams/statisticalmoderation/statmod.html
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So. when you get ranked, its at your school and all the people who are doing that year 12 subject.
That is correct. You are ranked against all the kids doing that subject at your school.
Lets just say in Legal, i get really high in my SACS, and ranked 1st oit of all of the people doing legals studies at my school, and i ace the exam, then what are the chances of me getting 50 SS?
Well 50 means you are the best in the state at that subject. But yes, if your SACS were high and you did really well in the exam (High A+) then there is a good chance of getting close to 50, if not 50.
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WTF THATS BS.
What if you get 100% in the exam, and you're ranked last (but you got 95% on sacs :P ), but this kid whose smart in sacs (100%) choked on the exam and scored 50%, does that mean you'll get 100% for exam and 50% for SACS?!?!?!?!
so instead of A+ A+ A+ you'll get D D A+ ?
WTFFFF thats screwed. that can't be right.
it wouldnt be THAT extreme.
statistical moderation assumes that your ranking within your school assessment should be similar to your ranking within your school in the statewide exam, which is fair enough.
but statistical moderation isnt exactly to the exam score. your moderated SACs will approximate the ranking exam score, as the performance of students ideally fit in a bell curve, that is why your cohort needs to be large enough or be merged with another school. the result of the moderation process at the end, however, resembles your sac->exam score model, but the actual workings are not rigid, and allows for anomalies.
In this extreme case, apple, your 95% SACs being the ranking last in the cohort means its a very strong cohort, and they wouldnt moderate it down THAT low. Instead, you're exam result will actually aid that SAC ranking 1st person to get a derived exam score (there gotta be a reason to explain this bombing out).
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That's why you need a really strong middle cohort and to rank really carefully.
Sorry, but whats a cohort? Ive never heard of that term :P
So. when you get ranked, its at your school and all the people who are doing that year 12 subject.
Lets just say in Legal, i get really high in my SACS, and ranked 1st oit of all of the people doing legals studies at my school, and i ace the exam, then what are the chances of me getting 50 SS?
a cohort to VCAA:
The first step in moderating schools’ assessments in each study is to identify the moderation group for each study at each school.
For example, the moderation group for Legal Studies at a particular school is all the students doing Legal Studies at that school. If there are a number of Legal Studies classes at the school, the students in all the classes constitute the moderation group.
If a school has only a very small number of students doing a study, then it is advisable for the school to combine with another school for moderation purposes. When this happens, students from both schools doing that study constitute the moderation group.
so basically people doing a particular study at your school (for SAC moderation purposes), and if the number of people at your school is too low, then your teacher will join your small group with another school's cohort.
another type of cohort refers to all the students doing a study in year 12, that is the cohort used for study-score
then the largest set of cohort refers to all the students doing VCE, that is the cohort used for ENTER calculation.
there are several different ranking processes, SAC moderation takes your moderation group (your school's cohort), and study-score/ENTER use their corresponding cohort.
if you rank 1st in your cohort for legal (not perfect, but ranked 1st), and then not lose any marks on the exam, you will most likely recieve a 50.
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Thanks guys, i understood it in the end. :)
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Yes. For example, if you get the lowest sac mark in the whole school but you get top in the exam, you will still get your exam mark but your sac mark will take the mark of the lowest mark scored on the exam.
3 People get these results on the sac (3 people in class)
45% 75% 95%
rank 3 rank 2 rank 1
But get the following exam results
60% 55% 20%
rank 1 rank 2 rank 3
Then their sac marks get moderated:
45%--> 20% rank 3 on the sac takes the rank 3 on the exam
75%-->55% rank 2 on the sac takes the rank 2 on the exam
95%-->60% rank 1 on the sac takes the rank 1 on the exam
Huh that means the SACs are way more important than exams and if you are ranked 1 then you can just fail the exams and still get the highest score