ATAR Notes: Forum
VCE Stuff => Victorian Education Discussion => Topic started by: pi on November 01, 2010, 11:29:44 am
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Methods 3+4 in Year 11?
MHS does't let us, but I just want to know what the general consensus is.
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Everyone that did it at my school regrets it, lamenting how much better they could have done this year. That said, they're all geniuses so they're regretting getting like 40 raw.
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If you're pro enough at maths than you should do it
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i did shockingly in methods last year, as well as having a bad cohort AND teacher, BUT i don't regret it. it gave me room to do more subjects i liked. if you're good at math, then do it.
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I don't get MHS, they don't let you do any 1+2 in year 10 (except Music Solo). In bio and psych, we are only allowed to do Unit 1, ridiculous...
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at my school there is one girl in my year level who did methods 1/2 in yr 9, GMA in yr 10 and doing methods 3/4 this year then she will do spesh 3/4 next year :S plus she's a year younger than most year 11's
apparently it took her ages to let the school be okay with it, but I find it a bit silly to have a year gap between doing methods 1/2 and 3/4
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at my school there is one girl in my year level who did methods 1/2 in yr 9, GMA in yr 10 and doing methods 3/4 this year then she will do spesh 3/4 next year :S plus she's a year younger than most year 11's
apparently it took her ages to let the school be okay with it, but I find it a bit silly to have a year gap between doing methods 1/2 and 3/4
thats a bit weird (the gap)
I've heard that methods 3+4 is just a big extension of 1+2 and isn't actually that hard to get 45+ in... (probably a biased opinion though)
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If you're pro enough at maths than you should do it
+1
Just need to watch out for careless errors - even more so than year 12's - they are the bane of all Methods students (who knows the material).
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I did it in year 11 and it was the best decision I made with my VCE :)
Honestly, get it out of the way and then you can concentrate on other subjects fully in year 12 since I personally found Methods a lot of work...too many questions to do lol.
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I did it in year 11 and it was the best decision I made with my VCE :)
Honestly, get it out of the way and then you can concentrate on other subjects fully in year 12 since I personally found Methods a lot of work...too many questions to do lol.
and you scored excellent!
wish they would let us...
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Why don't they allow you?
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I would have liked to get it over with this year (yr 11) but school didn't allow it. Stupid system... in year 9 we did yr9 & 10 maths, year 10 was GMA, year 11 1/2 methods, year 12 3/4 methods
Personally I find GMA much easier and more interesting than methods, but I don't find doing gma helps methods at all seeing as methods is entirely graphing so unfortunately I'm stuck doing 3/4 methods in year 12
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Why don't they allow you?
no idea, I think they believe that we will do better if we do it in yr 12. But I think some of us are ready.
As for why they don't allow us to to do unit 2 bio, psych or accounting, I have no idea.
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Why don't they allow you?
no idea, I think they believe that we will do better if we do it in yr 12. But I think some of us are ready.
As for why they don't allow us to to do unit 2 bio, psych or accounting, I have no idea.
Maybe because most Methods students would be doing spesh, and hence the better result?
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Why don't they allow you?
no idea, I think they believe that we will do better if we do it in yr 12. But I think some of us are ready.
As for why they don't allow us to to do unit 2 bio, psych or accounting, I have no idea.
Maybe because most Methods students would be doing spesh, and hence the better result?
only 1/3 of our yr12 cohort does spesh, whilst 90% of us do 3+4 methods
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Why don't they allow you?
no idea, I think they believe that we will do better if we do it in yr 12. But I think some of us are ready.
As for why they don't allow us to to do unit 2 bio, psych or accounting, I have no idea.
Maybe because most Methods students would be doing spesh, and hence the better result?
only 1/3 of our yr12 cohort does spesh, whilst 90% of us do 3+4 methods
That's a downfall..
PROTEST!
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Haha my school is same, you gotta get on your knees if you wanna do any 3/4 in year 11. (only the easy ones that don't really need 1/2 are allowed like psych, bio, IT etc)
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LOL my school is the complete opposite - it encourages students to do a 3/4 subject in Year 11 - to experience what VCE exams are like as opposed to normal, internal school exams. My school offers Methods 3/4 (though must have done Units 1/2 in Year 10), Bio 3/4, Accounting 3/4, Geo 3/4, International Studies 3/4 etc at the Year 11 level.
The only requirement you need to do a 3/4 subject in Year 11 (at my school) is to get better than a C+ in that particular area and maintain decent grades across all other subjects.
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LOL my school is the complete opposite - it encourages students to do a 3/4 subject in Year 11 - to experience what VCE exams are like as opposed to normal, internal school exams. My school offers Methods 3/4 (though must have done Units 1/2 in Year 10), Bio 3/4, Accounting 3/4, Geo 3/4, International Studies 3/4 etc at the Year 11 level.
The only requirement you need to do a 3/4 subject in Year 11 (at my school) is to get better than a C+ in that particular area and maintain decent grades across all other subjects.
damn MHS! they only let you do a 3+4 (bio, accounting or psych) if you average B+ or higher, or have special parental permission to do so
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I would like to point out that all of these schools (admittedly a large assumption but I know at least 3 schools that fit this bill) which you're all complaining about are the top performing schools in the state. Clearly they know what they're doing
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I take the point, but they are probably top schools due to their selectivity. Anyway, MacRob allows Methods 3+4, but not MHS. Both are top schools and selective.
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My guess is that even though students believe they're ready to do Methods 3/4 at Year 11 level, MHS would have seen many students in the past do Methods 3/4 (in Year 11) and they may not have done as well as they could have. Thus now, they don't allow students to do Methods 3/4 in Year 11 - preferring to let students do it in Year 12.
I take the point, but they are probably top schools due to their selectivity. Anyway, MacRob allows Methods 3+4, but not MHS. Both are top schools and selective.
True hence, all the threads about "HOW to study to get into MHS" etc. In any case, both MacRob and MHS are very good schools.
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I take the point, but they are probably top schools due to their selectivity. Anyway, MacRob allows Methods 3+4, but not MHS. Both are top schools and selective.
macrob only allows you to do 3/4 methods if you're in accelerated. and thats only around 75 students out of the 200 and something students there. so even at macrob theres people who wanna do methods 3/4 in yr 11 but cant.
anyways, i agree that its so unfair that some schools don't let you do methods in yr 11. No wonder a lot of MHS students do Asain 5 plus bio since bio is one of the limited things you actually can do in yr 11.
my school for instance has an "advanced" maths class but its useless cause we're not really doing anything that's "advanced". might as well mix us in with the rest. and they call us the methods class as well so everyone assumes we're doing methods.
O_____________O
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Why don't they allow you?
no idea, I think they believe that we will do better if we do it in yr 12. But I think some of us are ready.
As for why they don't allow us to to do unit 2 bio, psych or accounting, I have no idea.
As if you don't know? Us Y9s last year got a petition signed saying that we could choose our electives because we were FORCED to do TWO ART and TWO GENERAL....some wanted 4 art...some wanted 4 general.....End outcome: Prideaux stands up after singing assembly and "commends" our "effort" but nothing changed :P ...After that a group of ~7 of us met her at lunchtime and she's like you need to "broaden your horizons" and this is the "MHS culture" and blah blah...
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On the MM1/2 note:
Personally I think if the option was allowed then literally half if not three-quarters of the cohort would take it and Year 10 maths would become non-existent. Also there are not enough teachers to handle 3/4 of Year 10 and 7/8 of Year 11 doing Methods 1/2...
Either way I wouldn't have accelerated; more maths practice - less mistakes [ hopefully ] :P
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Why don't they allow you?
no idea, I think they believe that we will do better if we do it in yr 12. But I think some of us are ready.
As for why they don't allow us to to do unit 2 bio, psych or accounting, I have no idea.
As if you don't know? Us Y9s last year got a petition signed saying that we could choose our electives because we were FORCED to do TWO ART and TWO GENERAL....some wanted 4 art...some wanted 4 general.....End outcome: Prideaux stands up after singing assembly and "commends" our "effort" but nothing changed :P ...After that a group of ~7 of us met her at lunchtime and she's like you need to "broaden your horizons" and this is the "MHS culture" and blah blah...
lol, that has been done before. we took it to ludo instead though.
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Why don't they allow you?
no idea, I think they believe that we will do better if we do it in yr 12. But I think some of us are ready.
As for why they don't allow us to to do unit 2 bio, psych or accounting, I have no idea.
As if you don't know? Us Y9s last year got a petition signed saying that we could choose our electives because we were FORCED to do TWO ART and TWO GENERAL....some wanted 4 art...some wanted 4 general.....End outcome: Prideaux stands up after singing assembly and "commends" our "effort" but nothing changed :P ...After that a group of ~7 of us met her at lunchtime and she's like you need to "broaden your horizons" and this is the "MHS culture" and blah blah...
lol, that has been done before. we took it to ludo instead though.
and obviously failed - so did we :P
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one of my mates is doing methods 3+4 in yr11, and he anal raped every sac he had... I reccon if you think you're up to it, go for it.
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My guess is that even though students believe they're ready to do Methods 3/4 at Year 11 level, MHS would have seen many students in the past do Methods 3/4 (in Year 11) and they may not have done as well as they could have. Thus now, they don't allow students to do Methods 3/4 in Year 11 - preferring to let students do it in Year 12.
I take the point, but they are probably top schools due to their selectivity. Anyway, MacRob allows Methods 3+4, but not MHS. Both are top schools and selective.
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True hence, all the threads about "HOW to study to get into MHS" etc. In any case, both MacRob and MHS are very good schools.
Too bad MHS also doesn't let their students do Uni Enhancement subjects (subjects which Mac.Rob lets their students do)
EDIT I see MHS have allowed students next year to undertake uni subjects
As for Methods 3/4, I heard a person who was trying out for MHS in year 10 to go in for year 11 was accepted and then declined the offer when they wouldn't let him do methods 3/4. (despite doing 1/2 methods at his old school)
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There's a student at my school who will be in yr 11 next yr doing Accounting and Bio 3/4.
The teachers weren't so crash hot about it but she's still doing it :S I think it would be better if she didn't choose them knowing that there are 2 mid years and both subjects need some memorizing with the theory
I'm interested to see how she copes
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My school this year, had some Year 11 students do Methods 3/4 and Accounting 3/4 together. We also had students do Biology 3/4 and Further 3/4 as 2 3/4 subjects as well. My school does allow students to do Methods 3/4 in Year 11, though that's on the pre-requisite that they did Methods 1/2 in Year 10 (and did reasonably well in Methods 1/2).
one of my mates is doing methods 3+4 in yr11, and he anal raped every sac he had... I reccon if you think you're up to it, go for it.
Ditto. We had one guy this year (in Year 11) who only lost 1 or 2 marks max all year round for SACs. He topped the year level (Year 12s included). He's guaranteed 50, if not 45+ minimum for Methods.
I might add that "the.watchman" who goes to my school, was also very, very good at Methods 3/4 this year. He's one of best in our year level. =p
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humph... i wanted to do methods 3/4 as well... but at least i got to do 2 3/4s which i stuffed up >:(
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couple of misconceptions about MHS here...
If I read correctly someone said MHS only lets you do Bio, Psych or Accounting 3/4 in yr 11. They do restrict us but not that much. You can do pretty much any subject except English, Maths or Chemistry/Physics. There may be a few more but I know you can do pretty much any commerce or humanities subject.
And MHS kind of allows uni extension, but you have to have done exceptionally well in yr 11 and jump through about 100000 hoops.
The whole reason for this is they feel they have the VCE formula right so that kids can be involved in co curricular whilst still getting a high ATAR (let's be honest, it works). The problem is they aren't flexible enough for those few exceptional people. I agree with you Rohit, for those students in Mathletes, I don't see the reason why they shouldn't be able to do methods.
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I did methods 3/4 in year 11 this year and while I agree that I would've been able to do better if I did it next year (not because of lack of maturity, more of a lack of confidence), I don't regret doing it as it is probably the easiest of the subjects I am doing. (besides Chinese but my ability in Chinese was no where near as good as it is now in year 9 when we were choosing 1/2s...)
Methods is one of those subjects where you can do well with minimal effort, as long as you pay attention in class the concepts are very easy to grasp and revising for SACs and exams are easy.
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My school this year, had some Year 11 students do Methods 3/4 and Accounting 3/4 together. We also had students do Biology 3/4 and Further 3/4 as 2 3/4 subjects as well. My school does allow students to do Methods 3/4 in Year 11, though that's on the pre-requisite that they did Methods 1/2 in Year 10 (and did reasonably well in Methods 1/2).
my school allows only the special ones to do methods 3/4 in yr 11 and they need to be exceptionally good to do it.
but allows most generally top students to complete further 3/4 along with another 3/4....
might be stupid question...what is macrob :S
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MHS' female counterpart, without extra curricular.
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ahh kk cheers :)
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I did it this year (yr 11), having done 1/2 last year. It's not a hard subject; I don't see what the big deal is.
EDIT: Each year, my school gives 3 academic prizes to the top 3 students in methods, by SAC ranking. They went to me, and two other year 11s - none of the year 12s.
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my school allows only the special ones to do methods 3/4 in yr 11 and they need to be exceptionally good to do it.
but allows most generally top students to complete further 3/4 along with another 3/4....
might be stupid question...what is macrob :S
Same. Students at my school have to apply to do two 3/4 subjects in Year 11 and that's generally the smarter students (in most cases).
As for Mac.Rob, it's one of the best schools in the state. Them and MHS have topped the state academically for the past few years.
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lol I did methods 3/4 this year without ever doing 1/2. Shouldn't really be that big a deal.
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Same. Students at my school have to apply to do two 3/4 subjects in Year 11 and that's generally the smarter students (in most cases).
As for Mac.Rob, it's one of the best schools in the state. Them and MHS have topped the state academically for the past few years.
ah kk gues living on the peninsula dont hear much of them and only being yr 10 never took to much notice of VCE scores till recently...
i had to appy to do the two 3/4s in 2011 for reasons such as sporting comittments balencing school and sport in yr 12 ad still doing well...
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lol I did methods 3/4 this year without ever doing 1/2. Shouldn't really be that big a deal.
What a pro :D good luck with your results :)
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I did it this year (yr 11), having done 1/2 last year. It's not a hard subject; I don't see what the big deal is.
IMO there isn't a big deal about doing Methods 3/4 in Year 11. It's more the fact that so many students want to do it in Year 11 and that some schools restrict students from doing it. In some cases, schools think students will do better in Methods 3/4 in Year 12 than in Year 11. IMO it's probably one of the harder 3/4 subjects do to in Year 11, along with Biology 3/4 (where there is a lot to remember). Some schools are more stringent on these sort of things.
Obviously those doing Methods 3/4 in Year 11 have some capability. We had one student last year in Year 11 who got 46 raw for Methods and 44 raw for Accounting, that guy has ability.
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^ 3 of the Year 12s at my school who did Methods 3/4 last year, in Year 11, got 50. If kids have that kind of ability, they should of course be allowed to do the subject in year 11.
I have a friend who got 46 in Methods and 47 in Latin, both in year 11.
I think it's unfair for schools to just say "No you can't" to high achieving students - especially at a school like MHS, where a large portion of the student body would be capable of undertaking the subject a year early.
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I think it's unfair for schools to just say "No you can't" to high achieving students - especially at a school like MHS, where a large portion of the student body would be capable of undertaking the subject a year early.
I agree with that.
I think the presumption is that schools like MHS have seen very capable students in Year 11 do Methods 3/4 in the past, and haven't done as well as they hoped. I don't go to MHS so I can't give the reason as to why, that's just my thinking. In any case if they were "high achieving" students, they should perform just as well in Year 12 as the would have, had they done Methods in Year 11.
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MHS won't be able to work out a timetable for 3/4 methods in year 12..
Or that's what we were told when the src put it forward.
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I did it this year (yr 11), having done 1/2 last year. It's not a hard subject; I don't see what the big deal is.
EDIT: Each year, my school gives 3 academic prizes to the top 3 students in methods, by SAC ranking. They went to me, and two other year 11s - none of the year 12s.
Same. Methods award went to me and one other year 11, it's probably because we really only have one subject to focus on, not five like all the year 12s.
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At my school, maths prizes traditionally aren't given out to year 11s (all other subjects are fair game for both year levels).
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At my school, maths prizes traditionally aren't given out to year 11s (all other subjects are fair game for both year levels).
That's kinda weird. How come? At RSC, it's generally the year 11s who get the awards. More focused on their only year 12 subject. That being said, its slowly changing as the Students become more interested in the sport and art academies, rather than their academic performance.
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At my school, maths prizes traditionally aren't given out to year 11s (all other subjects are fair game for both year levels).
That's kinda weird. How come? At RSC, it's generally the year 11s who get the awards. More focused on their only year 12 subject. That being said, its slowly changing as the Students become more interested in the sport and art academies, rather than their academic performance.
Honestly don't know. I guess the people that are especially good at maths would receive a prize in the following year for specialist anyway (there's no distinction between maths prizes - they're just for general excellence in mathematics or whatever).
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My school gives out prizes for absolutely everything (i.e. sport, academic, music, drama, debating, school service etc). Year 11 awards are also up from grabs - that is 1/2 subject prizes. Students in Year 11 can win prizes for their 3/4 subjects as well. My school gives out the same number of awards for Year 12 as they do for Year 11. xD
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Methods 3+4 in Year 11?
MHS does't let us, but I just want to know what the general consensus is.
Graduated in 2010 from MHS and to be honest I'm a supporter of their current policy. While the majority of students there would probably be able to cope with methods 3/4 in year 11, I guess the idea is that if you do 3/4 in year 11, you'll probably have to cover 1/2 content in year 10, and a lot of 1/2 and obviously 3/4 relies on assumed knowledge from year 10. I'm currently tutoring students doing 1/2 in year 10, and they have to work doubly hard to cover year 10 content simumltaneously as 1/2 content.
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Methods 3+4 in Year 11?
MHS does't let us, but I just want to know what the general consensus is.
Graduated in 2010 from MHS and to be honest I'm a supporter of their current policy. While the majority of students there would probably be able to cope with methods 3/4 in year 11, I guess the idea is that if you do 3/4 in year 11, you'll probably have to cover 1/2 content in year 10, and a lot of 1/2 and obviously 3/4 relies on assumed knowledge from year 10. I'm currently tutoring students doing 1/2 in year 10, and they have to work doubly hard to cover year 10 content simumltaneously as 1/2 content.
This is assuming you have to do 1/2 in year 10. At MGS, they streamed the "top set" of maths students beginning from year 9, so that they accelerate through the year 9/10 curriculum and cover a tiny bit of Methods 1/2 in year 10. Then in year 11, when they do Methods 3/4 (IF they do it), they all get put into a special class together, which effectively teaches 1/2 and 3/4 in the same year.
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Methods 3+4 in Year 11?
MHS does't let us, but I just want to know what the general consensus is.
Graduated in 2010 from MHS and to be honest I'm a supporter of their current policy. While the majority of students there would probably be able to cope with methods 3/4 in year 11, I guess the idea is that if you do 3/4 in year 11, you'll probably have to cover 1/2 content in year 10, and a lot of 1/2 and obviously 3/4 relies on assumed knowledge from year 10. I'm currently tutoring students doing 1/2 in year 10, and they have to work doubly hard to cover year 10 content simumltaneously as 1/2 content.
This is assuming you have to do 1/2 in year 10. At MGS, they streamed the "top set" of maths students beginning from year 9, so that they accelerate through the year 9/10 curriculum and cover a tiny bit of Methods 1/2 in year 10. Then in year 11, when they do Methods 3/4 (IF they do it), they all get put into a special class together, which effectively teaches 1/2 and 3/4 in the same year.
And even if my input for this is probably meaningless, this system does work. =)
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This is assuming you have to do 1/2 in year 10. At MGS, they streamed the "top set" of maths students beginning from year 9, so that they accelerate through the year 9/10 curriculum and cover a tiny bit of Methods 1/2 in year 10. Then in year 11, when they do Methods 3/4 (IF they do it), they all get put into a special class together, which effectively teaches 1/2 and 3/4 in the same year.
And even if my input for this is probably meaningless, this system does work. =)
+1...I think so too :)
Personally, I think the benefit of doing Methods 3/4 in year 11 is the chance to focus on it. I think it requires a lot of work especially with practise exams nearer to the end of the year, and I've watched the year 12s having to struggle because they couldn't do as much, balancing with all their other 3/4s. We have about 20 doing 3/4 in year 11, not all of them "exceptional" at mathematics, but because they had that chance to focus on it for a year, they beat the year 12s and perhaps did better than they would with doing the 1/2 in year 11 BUT having 4 or 5 other 3/4s in year 12.
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I have a couple year 10s doing methods from perfectly good public schools. I can tell they are naturally quite good at maths, but the foundations don't seem quite solid enough for methods...
They are able to convert rather complex worded problems into equations and solve them; and also do those "cone of death" type questions... yet if I give them a quadratic to factorize, the instantaneous recognition of number pairs for most good methods student just is not there, and I suspect it is a result of those skills not being developed enough in previous years.
That said there is obviously a large group of talented students who have done work at home/outside of school to do well in Mathematics; I just think that alot of schools offer methods in year 11 whilst not really having prepared students well enough in previous years.
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LOL my school is the complete opposite - it encourages students to do a 3/4 subject in Year 11 - to experience what VCE exams are like as opposed to normal, internal school exams. My school offers Methods 3/4 (though must have done Units 1/2 in Year 10), Bio 3/4, Accounting 3/4, Geo 3/4, International Studies 3/4 etc at the Year 11 level.
The only requirement you need to do a 3/4 subject in Year 11 (at my school) is to get better than a C+ in that particular area and maintain decent grades across all other subjects.
damn MHS! they only let you do a 3+4 (bio, accounting or psych) if you average B+ or higher, or have special parental permission to do so
what?
I don't recall any prerequisite like that
and my year 10 report was quite horrible LOL
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LOL my school is the complete opposite - it encourages students to do a 3/4 subject in Year 11 - to experience what VCE exams are like as opposed to normal, internal school exams. My school offers Methods 3/4 (though must have done Units 1/2 in Year 10), Bio 3/4, Accounting 3/4, Geo 3/4, International Studies 3/4 etc at the Year 11 level.
The only requirement you need to do a 3/4 subject in Year 11 (at my school) is to get better than a C+ in that particular area and maintain decent grades across all other subjects.
damn MHS! they only let you do a 3+4 (bio, accounting or psych) if you average B+ or higher, or have special parental permission to do so
what?
I don't recall any prerequisite like that
and my year 10 report was quite horrible LOL
Did you have to see your co-ordinator? (if your in MHS that is...)
B+ cut-off was for people who got instantly accepted in their 3+4s.
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B+ cut-off was for people who got instantly accepted in their 3+4s.
Hmm for us 2010 Year 10s it was different. Depending on your subject, the subject co-ordinator would look at those grades and make an on-site decision. For example, Psychology looked at English, Science and Psychology Unit 1 (if applicable). I had a HD2 (A) average English, HD1 (A+) average Science and an A average for Psychology. However I know of people who got in with Bs in Psychology Unit 1 itself - the system is very lenient!
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Yeah nah there is no B+ thing required.
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Yeah nah there is no B+ thing required.
The B+ thing was like this: If you got B+ or higher (D1 or higher) in subjects that were a 'prerequisite' for the 3+4 (eg. Bio: Science and English), then the co-ordinators put you through right away. If not, then they had a 2 minute interview (70% of my hear 10 class had to, for example) with the person, and if their grades were decent, then they got through. However, some people were not allowed to do a 3+4 due to this process (or got moved from one 3+4 to another because of their grades, eg. our 'next year school captain' was moved from bio to PE).
It wasn't a restriction as such, just a methods of sorting.
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that never happened for us. if you failed in year 10 you wouldnt get a 3/4, if you passed you would
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Yeah it didn't happen for us either, idk what Rohit is on about but im 99.95%1 positive on this.
1. Thanks m@tty
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^99.95% positive ? :P