English Oral Argument Formulation

[Donutseatnut]

Hey everybody!
So, we're jumped straight into the fray and began our 'Headstart' of Year 12 with our english orals.
The context is conflict (which I believe is the same for those who completed VCE last year), and my issue is bullying, with the contention that "punishments for bullies must be more severe."

Personally, I'm sort of confident in my speech writing skills, but it needs work. But what really needs work, is my arguments, as I've formulated some, but I don't believe they're very strong:

 - Propose an idea; not only supported through the court (a national bully register) Not to victimize the bully, but to protect the individuals. As a society we need to fix this together. Works on a strike system, zero tolerance.
- Compare the long term effects of bullying, to those of crimes such as rape, domestic abuse.
- Bullies are not detered and their mindset remains the same - sets them up to continue during adulthood, even branch out to more violent crimes.
- The reduced quality of life for the victims, as a result of the long term effects.

But, I don't think these are very strong. If anyone could suggest some possible arguments, that'd be terrific. 

[charmanderp]

Compare the long term effects of bullying, to those of crimes such as rape, domestic abuse.

I'm not so sure about this one, it might be a bit of a long bow to draw. Maybe correlation between perpetrators of rape and domestic abuse with childhood bullies?

[EvangelionZeta]

Compare the long term effects of bullying, to those of crimes such as rape, domestic abuse.

I'm not so sure about this one, it might be a bit of a long bow to draw. Maybe correlation between perpetrators of rape and domestic abuse with childhood bullies?

I think the comparison is sort of valid if one assesses the cruelty of a crime based purely on its immediate consequences, although it is still difficult for most people to believe in terms of its emotional/intuitive (and under other forms of analysis, rational) plausibility.  In reality, bullying is also an act which denies others agency, security, and which has extreme effects on mental and physical health; it has the full potential to create a living hell for the victim.  Perhaps it would be more effective to just highlight what makes it so similar to rape and domestic abuse without actually drawing the explicit link - this also actually gives your argument more power, as the point then becomes about the horror of bullying in and of itself, as opposed to just its relative ugliness.

[Donutseatnut]

Ah I see. I did think it'd be difficult. The only things I could think of were the psychological effects, but that's quite a good idea. I was contemplating that, but I thought it would be difficult to do so.
I had a thought about presenting bullying history of a few significant criminals in history, but I also thought that was a long shot.

[EvangelionZeta]

Ah I see. I did think it'd be difficult. The only things I could think of were the psychological effects, but that's quite a good idea. I was contemplating that, but I thought it would be difficult to do so.
I had a thought about presenting bullying history of a few significant criminals in history, but I also thought that was a long shot.

I think presenting historical/famous people examples isn't always the best idea, since it means your argument becomes about "famous people" rather than about the act itself.  I do think though that giving some statistical evidence or maybe even some close case analyses of people who AREN'T actually famous might be beneficial though.

- Propose an idea; not only supported through the court (a national bully register) Not to victimize the bully, but to protect the individuals. As a society we need to fix this together. Works on a strike system, zero tolerance.

I think this model is a bit too hard to defend, in relation to the national bully register.  Horrific as they may be, one's actions in early adolescence do not necessarily correlate to one's adult life - plenty of bullies might end up becoming perfectly reasonable, beneficial members of society, especially because as children, it is very easy to fall into the unfortunate trap of being a bully (whereas we keep records for children committing severe crimes that show an active agency towards ill will, such as theft and murder, because that requires a lot more motivation than typical schoolyard bullying does).  Having a national register hurts these people's abilities to find employment, opportunities, etc. for actions which may not necessarily correlate to their adult state of being; intuitively, this seems overtly harsh, and also seems inconsistent with the way we regard individuals at a practical level.  The other problem is it doesn't actually seem to do anything to actually protect (if anything, the label that gets attached through a register might just incentivise bullies further, because it "otherises" them from mainstream society etc.), unless you're suggesting we throw bullies into jail as well.

An alternative I would propose is to perhaps have a no-tolerance policy with harsher detentions (longer hours, boot camp?) AND compulsory counseling, enforced across all high schools.  This means that you not only protect the victims, but also encourage positive behaviour for the bullies.  This model would probably be more effective as well in that I think it holds more plausibly positive outcomes: after all, many childhood bullies bully for reasons that can be fixed with the proper conversations and teaching.

[EvangelionZeta]

Also just adding some more, I think a neater way to structure this argument could be:

1. Talk about short term effects (what I discussed before)
2. Long term effects - bring in how it inflicts long-term psychological trauma, etc.
3. How the bullies themselves also need to be "protected" in a sense - their behaviour, unchecked, could lead to a cycle of destruction (and this also works better if you go for a model wherein bullies are reformed, rather than just punished even worse)

This way you progress more logically between different harms/stakeholders.  Moreover, by focusing ALL of the arguments on "protection", you also get more coherence and a better sense of centrality to what your entire case is all about.  A speech employing thematically unified arguments is often more persuasive than a speech which just scatterguns points.

[paulsterio]

- Propose an idea; not only supported through the court (a national bully register) Not to victimize the bully, but to protect the individuals. As a society we need to fix this together. Works on a strike system, zero tolerance.

The crime-punishment model doesn't always work, what you have to consider is why bullies behave the way they do and try to change that so that they understand bullying is wrong and don't do it. When I see a red light, even when there are no cameras around and the roads are practically empty at 2am, I still wouldn't run it, not because I'm scared I'll die or get caught, it's because I believe that the way I drive and follow road rules reflects on the sort of person that I am - a person who respects the laws as being there to protect society and the safety of others.

Anyway, what you might like to talk about is having programs where it's OK to speak out and talk about why you (bullies) feel the need to bully others. What they get out of that and how we can give them that similar experience without hurting others. If it's because it gives them something to feel good about, how about sports or other hobbies, things they're good at and give them a sense of self worth and pride, for instance.

[werdna]

Just pointing out that you don't actually have to do an issue that relates to your context! (Clarify if I've misunderstood though)

[Donutseatnut]

Thank you all greatly for your assistance. Before I state anything, I must say I'm not the strongest english student, so please forgive me!

VILPQ and Evangelion - I think that the 'reforming and protection' idea is excellent! But, does it tie in well with my contention. In a sense, it's not a punishment (although, I think it's a very good alternative). The idea of this 'national bully register', I've explained it and worked it out with my teacher (and also gotten some assistance from a legal studies teacher!), so it makes sense and sounds fairer when I explain it better, the strike system and such. But, should I include both of these in my oral, as if I leave out punishment in a sense, it defeats the purpose of the contention, in my opinion.

Evangelion - Great idea, too. I think that would be a much better alternative, and a bit broader instead of specific figures. Thank you!

werndna - It does seem that way, but I think I need to elaborate on the severity on the issue, before stating willy-nilly on how we should become tougher on the perpatrators. 

[EvangelionZeta]

Thank you all greatly for your assistance. Before I state anything, I must say I'm not the strongest english student, so please forgive me!

VILPQ and Evangelion - I think that the 'reforming and protection' idea is excellent! But, does it tie in well with my contention. In a sense, it's not a punishment (although, I think it's a very good alternative). The idea of this 'national bully register', I've explained it and worked it out with my teacher (and also gotten some assistance from a legal studies teacher!), so it makes sense and sounds fairer when I explain it better, the strike system and such. But, should I include both of these in my oral, as if I leave out punishment in a sense, it defeats the purpose of the contention, in my opinion.

Evangelion - Great idea, too. I think that would be a much better alternative, and a bit broader instead of specific figures. Thank you!

werndna - It does seem that way, but I think I need to elaborate on the severity on the issue, before stating willy-nilly on how we should become tougher on the perpatrators. 

Well, if you've talked it through with your teacher, then that's fine - they're going to be the one grading you anyway, so if it flies for them then cool beans.  Just that to me at least, it seems like an odd model to employ.

[Donutseatnut]

Well, if you've talked it through with your teacher, then that's fine - they're going to be the one grading you anyway, so if it flies for them then cool beans.  Just that to me at least, it seems like an odd model to employ.

Yes, when they first suggested it, I thought it was a bit sketchy myself, but they explained it in such a way that I may be able to work with it well.  But, the idea of reforming bullies is an excellent one, and I think I may employ that. 

[tullfrog]

Don't do this topic. It's too relevant to school students for you to be passionate about it seeming personal. But if you are super keen...
Take a look at the current statutory remedies available for victims of bullying:
In civil cases you can bring action under the tort of "intentional infliction of emotional distress"
In criminal law you'd probably have to prosecute under s21A of the Crimes Act.
How will your solution solve the problem (which is in its most basic form the fact that bullying is often unintentional or indistinguishable from banter) in a way that these will not?
The problem with these remedies is the same as the problem with your solution - the issue just isn't that serious.

[jazza97]

Use a lot of examples from recent times e.g. girl who swallowed bleach and maybe find an older example.  This way you can detail the effects of bullying whilst also showing the damage which is caused without change and if change has occurred, how it is ineffective and stale.

However, you do need to acknowledge both sides of the topic, ableit briefly.  What i did was acknowledge the opposite perspective then show how it is flawed and wrong.  This way you satisfy the criteria and still maintain a zest and passion which is important in both engaging your audience and demonstrating your knowledge and genuine concern which is very important in all work in English, particularly the oral.