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Author Topic: Need some help understanding my Unit 3 SAC  (Read 5986 times)  Share 

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emchun

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Need some help understanding my Unit 3 SAC
« on: May 05, 2013, 07:48:49 pm »
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My class did a SAC last week, it was about movement across membranes, osmosis.

We had 3 setups - A, B and C.
Setup A: We had a gas jar filled up with water and iodine(indicator), then we place/hung a dialysis tube with starch and water in it.
Setup B: We had a gas jar filled up with water, then we place/hung a dialysis tube with glucose and water in it. We used 'testape' as the indicator.
Setup C: Was the control, the teacher was doing that one for us so I don't know much about it. It just had water in both gas jar and dialysis tube.

We left it there and were told to measure if the water increased every 10 minutes, until the class ended, then every 30 minutes till the end of school, then measure it again the next morning. We also had to test for glucose in gas jar using testape every 30 minutes.

Results:
Setup A: It showed that the iodine was going into the dialysis tube as the liquid turned purple, but I'm not very sure why and how come the starch didn't come out of the bag instead? Is it because it is too big to come out?

Setup B: It showed that glucose came out of the dialysis tube because the testape showed change of colour when tested in the gas jar. Why is that? Is it because its a small molecule so it can diffuse through?

Can someone please explain this in terms of osmosis? I understand how the water will move into the dialysis tube because there is a low water concentration in there but I don't understand the other parts. Any tips for what I should prepare for the SAC questions would be greatly appreciated!  :D

« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 07:51:58 pm by emchun »

katerina

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Re: Need some help understanding my Unit 3 SAC
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2013, 08:50:38 pm »
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Keep in mind that osmosis is quite similar to diffusion.
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Yacoubb

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Re: Need some help understanding my Unit 3 SAC
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2013, 10:17:25 am »
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Hey emchun

So lets get some things clarified, firstly:

(a) What is osmosis?
Osmosis is the passive, net movement of free water molecules across the semi-permeable plasma membrane from a diluted area (low solute concentration) to a concentrated area (high solute concentration), along the osmotic gradient.
^ What this means is that water molecules will always move from a diluted area where solute concentration is lower than water concentration, in order to dilute the concentrated area of the other side of the membrane, where solute concentration is greater than water concentration.

(b) Why the dialysis tubing?
The dialysis tubing represents the semi-permeable plasma membrane. Yes, there are limitations to this model because there are no phopholipid bi-layer aggregations, no protein/ion channels, etc. However, it is perfect for osmosis because small water molecules are able to diffuse through the pores of this dialysis tubing. So when you're observing osmosis, ensure you remember that the dialysis tubing is your plasma membrane, and exactly what happens in normal cells (e.g. osmosis in potato cells), is happening in this dialysis tubing.

(c) Iodine solution:
That indicator in set-up A of starch solution and iodine would probably turn dark blue-black. This enables the experimenter (yourself) to know that starch is present in the solution. Now the reason Set-Up A turned purple was because the surrounding water is purple, and because of the net movement of water into the dialysis tubing, its obviously very convenient as an indicator to visually see what is hapenning.

Quote
Results:
Setup A: It showed that the iodine was going into the dialysis tube as the liquid turned purple, but I'm not very sure why and how come the starch didn't come out of the bag instead? Is it because it is too big to come out?

Setup B: It showed that glucose came out of the dialysis tube because the testape showed change of colour when tested in the gas jar. Why is that? Is it because its a small molecule so it can diffuse through?

Set-up A:
Now you're asking why the starch did not come out of the dialysis tubing. Starch is a polysaccharide made up of branched chains of glucose monosaccharides. It is too large to fit through the pores of the dialysis tubing, and even in the plasma membrane, must be carried across the plasma membrane via protein channels. This is why its an advantage to use something permeable, basically to water.

Set-up B:
Yes - glucose molecules are molecules small enough to diffuse into/out of the dialysis tubing. Actually, what would have happened here is that water would have moved into the dialysis tubing, in order to dilute the more concentrated 'glucose' environment within the dialysis tubing, containing the glucose + water.

Set-up C:
This control is basically the isotonic solution; what would have happened was that you should observe no change in the mass of the dialysis tubing because there is not net movement of water into or out of the cell. Its a point of comparison, and also eliminates extraneous variables that could then enable the experimenter to attribute any effects on the osmotic activity of water across the dialysis tubing, to the independent variable, which is in your case, solute concentration.

Hope this helped, and good luck!

Rachet123

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Re: Need some help understanding my Unit 3 SAC
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2013, 02:09:18 pm »
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Hey emchun

Set-up A:
Now you're asking why the starch did not come out of the dialysis tubing. Starch is a polysaccharide made up of branched chains of glucose monosaccharides. It is too large to fit through the pores of the dialysis tubing, and even in the plasma membrane, must be carried across the plasma membrane via protein channels. This is why its an advantage to use something permeable, basically to water.

Set-up B:
Yes - glucose molecules are molecules small enough to diffuse into/out of the dialysis tubing. Actually, what would have happened here is that water would have moved into the dialysis tubing, in order to dilute the more concentrated 'glucose' environment within the dialysis tubing, containing the glucose + water.

Now, I am pretty sure that starch is way too large to fit through a protein channel. It will mostly likely enter a cell via endocytosis, but I am also sure that starch never enters or leaves a cell. If you can recall, sucrose is the mode in which sugars are transported throughout a plant; starch which is insoluable in water and way too large will need to be broken down into such a sugar before being transported.

Secondly if glucose is able to move out of the cellulose membrane then you cannot call this osmosis, osmosis(passive net movement of free water molecules) will only occur when there is a higher concentration of solute that is unable to pass through the membrane. Think about it this way, what is the point of water moving into the cellulose tubing if the glucose can move out. Of course there will be an initial net movement of free water molecules into the tubing but ultimately as the glucose molecules diffuse out of the tubing thee water will go back as a higher concentration of glucose will be building up on the other side- so really it isn't osmosis.
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emchun

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Re: Need some help understanding my Unit 3 SAC
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2013, 10:45:38 pm »
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Thank you all for your help! The teacher actually delayed the SAC until tomorrow because we haven't yet got the results for Setup C because one group was measuring that setup and the person who had the result has been away.

I still have a few questions that I'm confused about. I always have trouble identifying the variables - independent, dependent. Can someone please explain to me which one it is and why? Which variable is being tested? And what is the difference between permeable and semi-permeable? Does permeable mean anything can pass through?

Thank you for the help!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 11:34:19 pm by emchun »

Yacoubb

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Re: Need some help understanding my Unit 3 SAC
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2013, 11:33:45 pm »
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Thank you all for your help! The teacher actually delayed the SAC until tomorrow because we haven't yet got the results for Setup C because one group was measuring that setup and the person who had the result has been away.

I still have a few questions that I'm confused about. I always have trouble identifying the variables - independent, dependent. Can someone please explain to me which one it is and why? And what is the difference between permeable and semi-permeable? Does permeable mean anything can pass through?

Thank you for the help!


When you're looking at the correlation between two variables, there are two variables; the dependent variable and the independent variable. The dependent variable is the variable that you are measuring or observing for any effects, and the independent variable is the variable that is being changed in order to observe any attributed effects this has on the dependent variable.

IV: concentration of molecules outside relative to inside the dialysis tubing
DV: osmosis [net movement into/out of cell - no net movement, etc]
^ Your results are confusing so don't take my word for the IV and DV I've given.

Semi-permeable simply means that the plasma membrane will only allow certain, selective materials to cross the plasma membrane to enter/exit the cell, and by doing so, regulate what materials enter/exit a cell. Something that is described as being permeable means that any molecules (i.e. small enough to fit through the permeable surface of the object/substance) can fit through, disregarding its chemical nature, for instance.