Spesh- to drop or not?

[One Step at a Time]

Hi everyone 

Struggling with my subject selection for Year 12 next year. Currently doing Spesh 1/2 and on average, my marks are just above the cohort's average. Definitely not a subject that clicks with me easily as I found that it took me quite a bit of time to even understand vectors and complex numbers. When I do understand a topic though, all's good. Plus, I can't lie, the scaling's a bonus!

Having struggled a bit with Spesh 1/2, I am thinking about whether to drop it or not.

Would love to hear thoughts from people who are currently doing Spesh 3/4 or even those that dropped it. Anyone have any regrets? Haha

And if I do decide to drop it, I was thinking of picking up HHD or Enviro Science or frankly any 3/4 that can be picked up without Units 1/2 (tbh don't know all of the subjects that can). But that's for another post! 

Thanks so much 

[Swagadaktal]

Hi everyone 

Struggling with my subject selection for Year 12 next year. Currently doing Spesh 1/2 and on average, my marks are just above the cohort's average. Definitely not a subject that clicks with me easily as I found that it took me quite a bit of time to even understand vectors and complex numbers. When I do understand a topic though, all's good. Plus, I can't lie, the scaling's a bonus!

Having struggled a bit with Spesh 1/2, I am thinking about whether to drop it or not.

Would love to hear thoughts from people who are currently doing Spesh 3/4 or even those that dropped it. Anyone have any regrets? Haha

And if I do decide to drop it, I was thinking of picking up HHD or Enviro Science or frankly any 3/4 that can be picked up without Units 1/2 (tbh don't know all of the subjects that can). But that's for another post! 

Thanks so much 

Yeah I dropped spesh for psychology, one of the biggest regrets I've had... but I was a strong maths student who did methods in yr 11 so...

I found that if you're doing well in spesh it's kind of a safety net, that even if it goes badly it can still go well coz of scaling. And if it goes well it goes extremely well.

[de]

I wouldn't drop it. I haven't done HHD or Enviromental Science, but I would like to think that spesh promises a lot of (perhaps more) reward for your effort.
If you are contemplating any vaguely mathsy options at UNI, then without a doubt you'd keep spesh.
If not, then objectively you'd want to consider the effect on your ATAR. But, as you know, you'd have to do considerably worse (in raw score terms) in spesh to get below a scaled score in HHD for example.
Another consideration is the fact that spesh 1/2 has/(had? new study design?) heaps of material that, while interesting, isn't relevant at all in 3/4-induction,sequences (for the most part)... You'd want to have a firm handle of vectors and complex numbers however. So a lacklustre performance in 1/2 doesn't necessarily foreshadow your 3/4 results, mainly because the subject matter in 3/4 is overall less abstract and "random".
Of course, if you like maths, then, regardless of all this, keep it!

[One Step at a Time]

Yeah I dropped spesh for psychology, one of the biggest regrets I've had... but I was a strong maths student who did methods in yr 11 so...

I found that if you're doing well in spesh it's kind of a safety net, that even if it goes badly it can still go well coz of scaling. And if it goes well it goes extremely well.

Oh no, did psychology not turn out how you thought it'd be? Or was it more on the lines of realising that you were strong in maths?

Haha that's true  Maybe I should just grit my teeth and thank Spesh for saving my ATAR haha

Thanks so much for the insight! I was thinking more about dropping Spesh, but now I'm back to sitting on the fence 

[Aaron]

I think you should consult with someone qualified to be giving this sort of advice. I'd take any opinion on here with a grain of salt because each person experiences these subjects differently (either good or bad).

My opinion: If it's worrying you or you think it could place negative stress on your year, I personally believe it isn't worth taking on. The only exception to this rule would be if it is a pre-requisite for any course that you may do in the future at university.

Good luck

[Swagadaktal]

Oh no, did psychology not turn out how you thought it'd be? Or was it more on the lines of realising that you were strong in maths?

Haha that's true  Maybe I should just grit my teeth and thank Spesh for saving my ATAR haha

Thanks so much for the insight! I was thinking more about dropping Spesh, but now I'm back to sitting on the fence 

Oh no I loved psychology - I took it out of interest and I enjoyed the subject. I didn't do it for the marks and that was fine. But retrospectively speaking, I probably should've done spesh coz vce is ultimately about marks and not about interests. I do think my atar would have been a fair bit higher if I took spesh this year, whether I would've enjoyed the year to the same extent as I did with psych, maybe.  But the difference wouldn't of been too large imo

[appleandbee]

I don't really have much information about your circumstances, so I'll give a general response with a few scenarios.

Note that I did Spesh under the old curriculum so my experience will probably differ in the sense that units 1/2 was very disorganized and units 3/4 now includes statistics (I'm not really keen on stats, but if taught well.... who knows?)

There are a few scenarios where I think doing spesh purely on the basis on scaling is not a bad idea (assuming you pull a respectable raw SS eg. 35+):

- If you are aiming for course that requires a very high atar (98+). Doing Spesh or a language (or both) push you over the line especially in marginal/borderline cases. Even if that's not the case, the scaling can provide a buffer just in case you underperformed in other subjects (or if English isn't a stong point). Although that kind of atar is definitely achievable without Spesh/language, it's still an advantage to do at least one of those subjects.
- Just want a very high ATAR
- Given the above, Spesh would be a great subject as long as it's not too time consuming and stressful to the point that it compromises other subjects.
- A 35+ raw SS is achievable through hard work and a decent understanding of the coursework even if maths is not your forte
- If not, a respectable ATAR (90-98) is fairly achievable without very high scaling subjects, although the advantage of Spesh/language still applies of course

Personal experience:

I went ahead and did 3/4 Spesh even though I did very badly in 1/2 (actually failed a few tests). The main reason I kept it, I think, was because doing Spesh was part of my original VCE plan therefore I was hesitant to give up on it as well as the fact that advanced maths would be useful if I wanted to pursue studies in Economics, Engineering, Neuroscience or Physics in the future. I also genuinely enjoyed maths (in general, not neccessarily VCE), so Spesh would probably have been bearable at the very least (3/4 was actually better than 1/2). I ended up enjoying Spesh (at least it was a step up from Methods) as a result of a desire to understand the concepts in a deep manner and that I had a tutor that honed that interest of mine. It's difficult to say whether I regretted doing it or not, because I could  have  done another subject instead like philosophy, global politics or psychology which I would have enjoyed too, but I'm fine with my choice. Although I got a respectable SS for Spesh (low 40s scaled to over 50) through a combination of hardwork, understanding the concepts, furthering my problem solving skills and a legendary tutor, my atar didn't really rely on it, as I would still have been able to get a 99+ atar (given the raw SS of my 5th 10% subject) -obviously speaking in hindsight. I didn't end up using my atar either, as I study a course that required 87-93 (I'm not on scholarship and wasn't near Chancellor Scholars). That said, it's relevant and useful to my current uni studies, so it was probably worth it. It's also a great subject in instilling a sense of discipline in your study routine and giving you a sense of accomplishment when you understand a concept  .

[One Step at a Time]

I wouldn't drop it. I haven't done HHD or Enviromental Science, but I would like to think that spesh promises a lot of (perhaps more) reward for your effort.
If you are contemplating any vaguely mathsy options at UNI, then without a doubt you'd keep spesh.
If not, then objectively you'd want to consider the effect on your ATAR. But, as you know, you'd have to do considerably worse (in raw score terms) in spesh to get below a scaled score in HHD for example.
Another consideration is the fact that spesh 1/2 has/(had? new study design?) heaps of material that, while interesting, isn't relevant at all in 3/4-induction,sequences (for the most part)... You'd want to have a firm handle of vectors and complex numbers however. So a lacklustre performance in 1/2 doesn't necessarily foreshadow your 3/4 results, mainly because the subject matter in 3/4 is overall less abstract and "random".
Of course, if you like maths, then, regardless of all this, keep it!

Ah this is so motivational and inspiring, thank you  I'll try to work out what overlaps from 1/2 and 3/4 (hopefully not too much) and the work on those areas over the holidays before Term 1 comes along. 

I think you should consult with someone qualified to be giving this sort of advice. I'd take any opinion on here with a grain of salt because each person experiences these subjects differently (either good or bad).

My opinion: If it's worrying you or you think it could place negative stress on your year, I personally believe it isn't worth taking on. The only exception to this rule would be if it is a pre-requisite for any course that you may do in the future at university.

Good luck

Thanks Aaron for your advice Definitely will keep that in mind!

Unfortunately, our careers counsellor (who also helps us decide on our subjects) keeps telling me to choose what I like. Definitely agree with her on that, but the problem is that I haven't done HHD and Enviro Science Units 1/2, so I'm not entirely sure where I like it or not. I've looked through the first few chapters of each textbook and I find both fairly interesting (perhaps HHD more than Enviro Science), but I have a feeling that's not the most accurate way of determining my interest. Plus, I have a tendency to like subjects if the content makes sense (hopefully that'll happen with Spesh  ).

Oh no I loved psychology - I took it out of interest and I enjoyed the subject. I didn't do it for the marks and that was fine. But retrospectively speaking, I probably should've done spesh coz vce is ultimately about marks and not about interests. I do think my atar would have been a fair bit higher if I took spesh this year, whether I would've enjoyed the year to the same extent as I did with psych, maybe.  But the difference wouldn't of been too large imo

Ah I see where you're coming from. I have a feeling that this might happen to me too if I end up choosing HHD/ Enviro Science and drop Spesh- probably won't get the ATAR that I need. Thanks heaps Swagadaktal 

I don't really have much information about your circumstances, so I'll give a general response with a few scenarios.

Note that I did Spesh under the old curriculum so my experience will probably differ in the sense that units 1/2 was very disorganized and units 3/4 now includes statistics (I'm not really keen on stats, but if taught well.... who knows?)

There are a few scenarios where I think doing spesh purely on the basis on scaling is not a bad idea (assuming you pull a respectable raw SS eg. 35+):

- If you are aiming for course that requires a very high atar (98+). Doing Spesh or a language (or both) push you over the line especially in marginal/borderline cases. Even if that's not the case, the scaling can provide a buffer just in case you underperformed in other subjects (or if English isn't a stong point). Although that kind of atar is definitely achievable without Spesh/language, it's still an advantage to do at least one of those subjects.
- Just want a very high ATAR
- Given the above, Spesh would be a great subject as long as it's not too time consuming and stressful to the point that it compromises other subjects.
- A 35+ raw SS is achievable through hard work and a decent understanding of the coursework even if maths is not your forte
- If not, a respectable ATAR (90-98) is fairly achievable without very high scaling subjects, although the advantage of Spesh/language still applies of course

Personal experience:

I went ahead and did 3/4 Spesh even though I did very badly in 1/2 (actually failed a few tests). The main reason I kept it, I think, was because doing Spesh was part of my original VCE plan therefore I was hesitant to give up on it as well as the fact that advanced maths would be useful if I wanted to pursue studies in Economics, Engineering, Neuroscience or Physics in the future. I also genuinely enjoyed maths (in general, not neccessarily VCE), so Spesh would probably have been bearable at the very least (3/4 was actually better than 1/2). I ended up enjoying Spesh (at least it was a step up from Methods) as a result of a desire to understand the concepts in a deep manner and that I had a tutor that honed that interest of mine. It's difficult to say whether I regretted doing it or not, because I could  have  done another subject instead like philosophy, global politics or psychology which I would have enjoyed too, but I'm fine with my choice. Although I got a respectable SS for Spesh (low 40s scaled to over 50) through a combination of hardwork, understanding the concepts, furthering my problem solving skills and a legendary tutor, my atar didn't really rely on it, as I would still have been able to get a 99+ atar (given the raw SS of my 5th 10% subject) -obviously speaking in hindsight. I didn't end up using my atar either, as I study a course that required 87-93 (I'm not on scholarship and wasn't near Chancellor Scholars). That said, it's relevant and useful to my current uni studies, so it was probably worth it. It's also a great subject in instilling a sense of discipline in your study routine and giving you a sense of accomplishment when you understand a concept  .

Wow thanks so much appleandbee, really grateful for the insight

Whoops, my whole post didn't really outline my circumstances. So, at the moment going into year 12, I'm aiming to either get into med at Monash or commerce at Melb. Two entirely different courses with entirely different ATAR and entry requirements. I'm unsure of which though, that's why I want to keep my options open and try to get the highest ATAR I can. (Not sure if that's the wisest decision haha) 

I've already done a language (teacher expects 40+ raw, but maybe she's being too optimistic) and Accounting (definitely didn't do well on the exam, so expecting >40) this year. As for next year, I'm definitely doing English, Chem and Methods. So Spesh could definitely help with Methods, not sure about the content overlap, but in the sense that I'll appreciate Methods more for not being so hard haha (at least that's what happened this year)  On the other hand, I'm worried that Spesh will take up too much time which might negatively affect UMAT prep and English. 

Since you mentioned having a tutor, I also had one this year for a month or so. Didn't have the best experience because I left each lesson feeling more confused and asking more questions to clarify just made it worse lol. If I do decide to continue with Spesh, is that legendary tutor of yours still tutoring? Or not because of the study design change? 

This reply seems to be all over the place and I'm wondering if it even makes any sense now, so I'll stop writing for now ahah

[brenden]

Pls do Spesh. After meeting you briefly, you're super capable, and can't think of a reason other than imposter syndrome you shouldn't do this subject and crush it!

My girlfriend's getting grumpy at me for posting when I'm at home so I can elaborate, but more than happy to talk this over in detail later!

[heids]

I wouldn't drop it. I haven't done HHD or Enviromental Science, but I would like to think that spesh promises a lot of (perhaps more) reward for your effort.

As someone who did HHD, I personally argue that you can more easily achieve a good score even scaled in this subject than in spesh if you're better at rote learning than maths.  (If I'd done spesh, I would've had to spend more time to get a lower score than I did with HHD, as someone who's better-than-average but not amazing at maths.)

Honestly, I think you're just going to get opposing opinions here LOL; you can't know until you've tried something whether it was a good or bad choice, so I guess just flip a coin and dig in