Is this RACISM okay?

[codsta769]

Hey guys,

I came across this facebook post on a community Facebook page which i thought was pretty funny, but also a social issue that i want to hear everyones opinion on across Australia.

So basically, this father sent in a rant to the page after he did a Frozen (the Disney movie) themed birthday party for his 4 year old daughter where they had frozen theme cakes, jumping castles and an Elsa (obviously a hired actress). Im not sure how the father found the actress in terms of whether he saw on online online advertisement, newspaper, party agency or whatever, but as we all know, Elsa has white skin and blonde hair.

When the Elsa turned up, the actress was infact 'dark skinned', had a blonde wig on but was not on properly and exposed her black hair, and had a strong African accent. This was of course not good for the kids as the father said they were shocked and kept on staring at the Elsa throughout the party. Due to this, the father was not satisfied, and only paid her half of the money he agreed on paying. On the post, it also said that the father regretted after the party of paying Elsa half and said he should have given her nothing.

Do you guys this this was the right thing to do?
Why can't Elsa be black?
Should the father have paid her $0?

MY OPINION: I think that the father should have done his research and possibly checked for photo's, asked for previous experience and of course, working with children check etc. The father had the right to not pay her to full price because the kids were not satisfied but at the end of the day, it was partially the father fault for not doing his research and the Elsa took time out of her day to at least turn up like she agreed. I think that paying half of the money was appropriate. Of course this is racism, but in this circumstance, it is okay. For example, if the movie Aladdin (set in Arabia) was doing casting, they wouldn't hire someone who is Asian to fill the role for Jasmine. This would similarly be the case for this in my opinion.

[caffinatedloz]

I guess I am really torn. I think that she absolutely must be paid the full amount for her work as she gave up that time to perform the job that she was employed to do, however, I can understand why the father may have been frustrated as it was something unexpected. I think that the worker should display pictures of herself (in costume) on her promotional material.

[Aaron]

I can understand it. You have to take into consideration the (innocent) kids and how who they knew as Elsa on the screen was nowhere near what they got in the end.

I voted 'pay in full' as I think the father should've taken up the complaint/issue with the agency/company rather than the individual. If the actress was independent, then definitely seek a refund (and if this is the case, I would go further and say pay nothing).

I don't believe it's racist.

[beatroot]

I believe that the hired actress should have been paid full- she did give up her time to actually turn up and do her job as Elsa. It is kinda the father's fault for not doing proper research for the hired actress before getting her for the party. Also research the actual company itself and take up the complaint with them rather than the actress herself.

Yes, Elsa's canon race in Frozen is of a Caucasian background (presumably Danish as Frozen was inspired by Hans Christian Anderson's fairytale 'The Snow Queen). However, Elsa's race is irrelevant to the film and doesn't drive the story itself, therefore Elsa's race does not matter. People of colour should be free to dress up as any fictional character IF race isn't specified. If a Caucasian person dresses up as Mulan or a Latina as Jasmine, that would be a different case because Mulan's Chinese background is relevant to her story and Aladdin is set in the Middle East.

[Sine]

Understandable that the father is frustrated just looking from his point of view although I think the father could have handled it better. Probably best to pay in full  - whatever you purchase/hire is not always going to be exactly what you want so something he should learn to understand.

Whilst I can kind of understand the father - my own opinion is probably closer to what beatroot has posted - and might have to do more research into the original text.

For example, if the movie Aladdin (set in Arabia) was doing casting, they wouldn't hire someone who is Asian to fill the role for Jasmine. This would similarly be the case for this in my opinion.

Did a quick google and pretty sure in the live-action remake of Alladin the actress who plays Jasmine is Asian/British (I haven't seen the movie though)

[S_R_K]

If the only reason for which the actress was allegedly unable to do the job for which she was hired was her skin colour, then withholding payment is racist.

It is a good lesson for the children to accept that a black skinned person can play that role. The father is setting a bad example by encouraging the children to believe that the actress' skin colour is a legitimate reason by which to judge her competence.

[beatroot]

Did a quick google and pretty sure in the live-action remake of Alladin the actress who plays Jasmine is Asian/British (I haven't seen the movie though)

Yep Naomi Scott is of an Indian and English background. At least the producers tried hiring someone with an Asian background instead of a Caucasian actress. But it's still not Middle Eastern so the casting is so off.

Though people have mistaken the Aladdin film to be set in India due to similarities (in terms of art design) between India and the Middle East, so I could see why the producers would hire Naomi Scott (still the casting is so off but still a better option than whitewashing Jasmine's character)

[DrDusk]

People need to stop attaching the word racism to everything that flies.
The father asked for a service and it was not properly provided.

If I was the father I would've stopped it early and called the people who provided the service and complained. However he let it go on for the whole party which is slack on his part. If she was there for the whole party I would've definitely paid her the full amount, because it isn't her fault.

It's the equivalent of having a white male play Nelson Mandela in a movie. Not everything can be fair 100%. Just like you can't have a white guy play Nelson Mandela. Nothing to do with him personally but a role is a role and a character is a character.

A character is a character. If I was in her position I would understand if the father complained about it early on, but refusing to pay AFTER everything was done isn't right.

[Remy33]

Racism is never okay. Period. However, I think a more appropriate title to this thread should've been "Is this racism?".

Yes, Elsa's canon race in Frozen is of a Caucasian background (presumably Danish as Frozen was inspired by Hans Christian Anderson's fairytale 'The Snow Queen). However, Elsa's race is irrelevant to the film and doesn't drive the story itself, therefore Elsa's race does not matter. People of colour should be free to dress up as any fictional character IF race isn't specified. If a Caucasian person dresses up as Mulan or a Latina as Jasmine, that would be a different case because Mulan's Chinese background is relevant to her story and Aladdin is set in the Middle East.

With all due respect, I'm so sick of people saying that POCs can dress up / cosplay traditionally Caucasian characters, but that it's somehow not okay the other way around.

Saying that "Mulan's Chinese background is relevant to the story and that Aladdin is set in the Middle East" makes it unacceptable for a white person to dress up as them is ridiculous. Using that same argument, I guess I could say no black/Asian/Latino should dress up as Elsa because Frozen is set in Scandinavia, and the setting is essential to the plot because it simply doesn't snow that much in other parts of the world.

[...] If the movie Aladdin (set in Arabia) was doing casting, they wouldn't hire someone who is Asian to fill the role for Jasmine. This would similarly be the case for this in my opinion.

The original story of Aladdin was actually set in China and Aladdin (not Jasmine though) was Chinese. I don't see anyone complaining that they casted an Egyptian actor to play him though.

As a POC myself, I couldn't care less if a white person dressed up as someone from my culture as long as they do so with respect. It's so hypocritical to say they shouldn't.

[beatroot]

Racism is never okay. Period. However, I think a more appropriate title to this thread should've been "Is this racism?".

With all due respect, I'm so sick of people saying that POCs can dress up / cosplay traditionally Caucasian characters, but that it's somehow not okay the other way around.

Saying that "Mulan's Chinese background is relevant to the story and that Aladdin is set in the Middle East" makes it unacceptable for a white person to dress up as them is ridiculous. Using that same argument, I guess I could say no black/Asian/Latino should dress up as Elsa because Frozen is set in Scandinavia, and the setting is essential to the plot because it simply doesn't snow that much in other parts of the world.
The original story of Aladdin was actually set in China and Aladdin (not Jasmine though) was Chinese. I don't see anyone complaining that they casted an Egyptian actor to play him though.

What makes POCs dressing up as traditionally Caucasian characters different to Caucasians dressing up as characters of colours, is that there is a history of racism imbedded in our society. People of colour have been oppressed for so long and racism plays such a huge part in maintaining that oppression even up to this day. POCS's dressing up as traditionally Caucasian characters is a completely different argument because Westernisation, Western colonisation and invasion into countries outside of Europe + America, have essentially forced POCs to succumb to Western values to avoid being scrutinised or oppressed.

I suppose the only way that Caucasian people can dress up as characters of colour if they do it with respect like you just mentioned. There is such a fine line between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation today. Cultural appreciation would involve some research and wearing a costume for the sake of exploring the culture and expanding one's viewpoint on the world. What irritates me when Caucasian people dress up as characters of colour for the sake of 'novelty' or 'being exotic' because that would be appropriation and not really appreciating what these costumes actually mean.

I can see where you are coming from with Caucasians being allowed to dress up as Elsa since it does not snow in other parts of the world besides Europe, parts of America and the North and South pole. But then again the plot of Frozen mainly surrounds Elsa's powers to control and create ice and snow. So Frozen could technically take place in any country in the world if pushing it.

It is the original Aladdin film that is at fault for converting the original Aladdin story from Chinese into Middle Eastern. Even I didn't realise Aladdin was originally Chinese until you mentioned it in this thread, so I apologise for the gaps in my research.

As a POC myself, I couldn't care less if a white person dressed up as someone from my culture as long as they do so with respect. It's so hypocritical to say they shouldn't.

As a POC myself, I do deeply care if a white person dressed up as someone from my culture. Cultural appreciation is a yes, but cultural appropriation is a no.

[Remy33]

What makes POCs dressing up as traditionally Caucasian characters different to Caucasians dressing up as characters of colours, is that there is a history of racism imbedded in our society. People of colour have been oppressed for so long and racism plays such a huge part in maintaining that oppression even up to this day. POCS's dressing up as traditionally Caucasian characters is a completely different argument because Westernisation, Western colonisation and invasion into countries outside of Europe + America, have essentially forced POCs to succumb to Western values to avoid being scrutinised or oppressed.

As someone who's country has been heavily colonised by Europeans in the past, I understand where you're coming from with the history of racism. However, I don't think we should fight fire with fire. History is important, but what's more important is to learn from it. If the history of racism has taught us anything, it's that stopping a group of people from doing something purely due to their ethnicity is wrong. We should acknowledge the past and the wrongdoings of the colonisers, and move forward instead of somehow making the current generation repay for what their ancestors had done. In addition to that, racism and oppression in our society is largely a thing of the past. Sure, there are dickheads everywhere, but the systematic discrimination has been eradicated.

I suppose the only way that Caucasian people can dress up as characters of colour if they do it with respect like you just mentioned. There is such a fine line between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation today. Cultural appreciation would involve some research and wearing a costume for the sake of exploring the culture and expanding one's viewpoint on the world. What irritates me when Caucasian people dress up as characters of colour for the sake of 'novelty' or 'being exotic' because that would be appropriation and not really appreciating what these costumes actually mean.

In my opinion, saying that someone must research and understand another's culture before wearing their clothing is incredibly exclusive. Some people may just be curious, some may like a culture's clothing just because they think it looks nice. And maybe, once they've worn it, they'll be keen to do more research into its history. But we shouldn't exclude anyone from doing something just because they want to be 'exotic'. People are more likely to be willing to be educated on a matter if they feel included in the first place.

As a POC myself, I do deeply care if a white person dressed up as someone from my culture. Cultural appreciation is a yes, but cultural appropriation is a no.

The issue is nowadays many instances of appreciation is wrongfully labelled as appropriation. "Cultural appropriation" gets thrown around carelessly way too much.

Tbh, whenever I see a white person wearing something traditionally from my culture, I feel proud, even if the person may not know the history.

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Apologies if I've derailed this thread a bit.