Ps and Ls laws and stuff.

[simpak]

Hey dudes,

Got an assignment, and by that I mean, I have to write an Op-Ed for Professional Writing which is something nobody wants to do but it's due Tuesday so I'd better get on it.
So the only thing that is non-political perhaps worth writing about as an issue would be concerns about Ps and Ls laws at the current time (since everything in the news is political at the moment).

Interested in your views about the necessity of 120 hours, the limit on passengers, personal experiences with Ls and Ps since the new laws were introduced preferably.
If you could contribute to discussion I would be quite pleased as it might inspire me to start writing and I won't have to deal with the threat of 'not handing your draft in on time and getting marks taken off'.

Sweet,

Simpak.

[Mao]

120 hours is a bit crazy. For people who can't get lessons from their parents or relatives, a lot of money would be spent on instructors (I invested >$4k). For people who can, that is a lot of time investment. For people who are in difficult (or edgy) family circumstances, it often means no license at all because of the hours required. However, it does raise the competence bar by a fair bit. You don't see any horrendously bad P platers these days like you used to.

As for the limit on passengers, there are cases where it'll be the more responsible thing to do to drive three or four drunk mates back home at ridiculous hours in the morning. There are also cases of hoons being hoons which is why we brought in this law in the first place.

I personally didn't really mind, once you've been in a few close calls you'll be glad to have done those extra hours. And once you've been in a hoon's car you'll appreciate why there is a passenger limit.

[Spreadbury]

the 120 hours should improve competence substantially as Mao said, but I don't think that's necessarily the case. since it's such a large number L-platers are likely to just spam any sort of drives they can, and the driving can get very repetitive. Most of the pitiful 30 hours i've gotten in a year and a half are just going back and forth in between my parents houses, and after about 5 times it's almost just natural and easy to drive there and it offers me no extra experience.

also, unless you get tips from your instructor (i'm talking about driving around with your parents here) then you're not really learning anything new. there's accelerator, brake, (maybe) learning to use the clutch and changing gears, turning and parking. Then lots of little tips you should learn, but parents may not necessarily tell you, leaving you unprepared for those "close calls" Mao mentioned.

The number of hours is obviously far too much to all be spent at a driving school, and a majority of it will probably be done without a trained instructor, so you could argue that it leaves a lot up to chance- instructors know what to teach and are obviously reliable teachers, however parents could be shoddy drivers themselves, or just not care.

I know my mother never gives me tips. just tells me when to slow down sometimes... might have to get some hours with an instructor

[Mao]

The usefulness of instructors becomes less and less as you get more hours. I remember in my final 40 hours we just listened to music and chat. I paid $35/hr to listen to music and chat with some guy around while aimlessly driving around.

[simpak]

Yes I think in my article I'm going to focus on people undermining the system entirely, while the honest people who are too afraid to lie (like me honesty is not the best policy in this case) are stuck on their Ls for an infinite amount of time.
With the amount of studying I do for Uni, and both of my parents working full time, it is actually near impossible to do 120 hours.
I have done like, 99 now.  But that's after two years.
I own a car, I have no license...it's actually quite ridiculous.  My parents are still forced to drive me everywhere and it often causes arguments between myself and them, because especially on the weekends, public transport in my area is not very agreeable and I have no other way of getting anywhere unless I enjoy walking 20km.  Which I do not.  And I know I can drive - if I were to take the test today, I believe I would pass.
What annoys me most as the people who so highly cherish these rules in the media are the baby boomers, who got about 10 hours practice in a carpark and did the easiest license test on earth to get their license.  I don't see them all piled up dead.

Most of my friends lied in their log books once they got to about 70-80 hours.  I believe that if the limit was lowered to 80 hours, people would be a lot less inclined to lie about their hours, and do the whole thing.
My AWESOME idea of course, would be to lower it to 80, let people take the test then.  If they don't pass, they have to do another 10 before they can retake the test.
So only those who 'need' more practice are forced to do more practice.

And as for the Ps laws, I find them genuinely ridiculous.
1.  They encourage people to break the law in ridiculous ways, I have been in a car with two friends on red Ps and one of them has been laying down in the back seat because the police were driving by, with no seatbelt on, the whole way to her house at night.  Dangerous.
2.  People are encouraged not to display their Ps - on schoolies, I saw so many people on green Ps getting pulled over and fined for being on red Ps and not displaying the correct plate colour to get away with more passengers.
3.  You end up with more inexperienced drivers on the road at any one time, which means it's just as dangerous, if not more dangerous than it was before.
4.  What are the chances, really, that 1/2 people when going out will remain sober?  Before, it was at least plausible that 1/5 might forgo drinking and take their friends home after a night out.  Now, I think it's more likely you will end up with drunk people driving around at night because of the passenger restrictions.

[jimmy999]

The Red Ps restrictions was very annoying. I found there were multiple occasions on which me and two other friends wanted to go out somewhere (happened more than going somewhere with just one mate). However given I always followed the one passenger rule, it would end up 1 or 2 people taking public transport whilst I would lug the car around.

It is so much convenient now that I have green Ps especially at night. I'm not particularly comfortable with my friends walking/train/tram/bus/waiting around at night by themselves and now I can offer to give them lifts home.


The 1 passenger rule ends up making the designated driver rule ineffective. Out of a group of 5 people, the one driving would end up rotating and assuming everyone has their license, then you would only have to drive every 5 times. Now you'd have to do that every 2nd time which can be a pain

[simpak]

thanks for your contributions guys by the way - it just helps me write generally being like 'People do this' and being able to justify it in some way when there's no real statistical data I can find on Google for it...

[Eriny]

I don't understand why Victoria has some of the most difficult hurdles to jump through to get your license. No other state requires 120 logged hours, nor do they require you to be 18 to get your licence. It's crazy. And doing uni interstate really highlights that - of all my friends, I'm the only one still on Ps despite having had more driving experience as all the people the same age as me (since I did drive over 120 hours from the age of 16 to 18 plus the fact that I have a car so I actually regularly drive). Yet, Victoria has the biggest road toll in the country. I would actually blame this on poor quality roads though, poorly lit, especially in the outer suburbs of Melbourne and in regional Victoria, as well as often quite windy. They're also well overcrowded. I think license holders are now more than qualified to drive properly and an unfair burden of blame is placed on them in order to distract us from the real issues.

[flash36]

120 hours is ridiculous and unrealistic. And the question has to be asked, how many people make up the hours that they've practiced in order to get their licence? When I had my log book inspected before I got by Ps, they glanced at each page for about 5 seconds. Any discrepancy would have gone unnoticed.

[Duck]

120 hours is unnecessary. If the person can't drive a car then they fail their test.

[Visionz]

I think its good despite being so far away from being able to get my Ps. Perhaps change the passenger restriction so you can only have one passenger 16-21 between like 8pm and 6am. Everything else though seems pretty legit. Theres some shit drivers out there - im one of them I wouldnt want to just be handed my license, Id kill a someone. 

[simpak]

Yeah I really still can't park in a non-reverse fashion so I am pretty sure I would fail my test, BUT YES.
I finished my Op Ed now AS IT IS DUE TOMORROW, but let's continue this conversation anyway.

Re: liars.
My friend, she is from Indonesia, she has a blackmarket license from Indo and a chauffeur to drive her around when over there.
Here, she lives in the city, but she has a car.
She lives alone.
Anyway, she lied about 100 hours in her book.
Because nobody was here to help her practice.
And she got her Ps after failing the test and then trying again, but has almost caused 2 accidents in the three weeks that she has had her license.

Meanwhile, I am stuck waiting half an hour for buses and then on an hour's train ride every day.
Fun!

[Duck]

4.  What are the chances, really, that 1/2 people when going out will remain sober?  Before, it was at least plausible that 1/5 might forgo drinking and take their friends home after a night out.  Now, I think it's more likely you will end up with drunk people driving around at night because of the passenger restrictions.

Interestingly, we had someone come into our school to talk about driving and when asked this exact question he said they just want us to get taxis.

[simpak]

4.  What are the chances, really, that 1/2 people when going out will remain sober?  Before, it was at least plausible that 1/5 might forgo drinking and take their friends home after a night out.  Now, I think it's more likely you will end up with drunk people driving around at night because of the passenger restrictions.

Interestingly, we had someone come into our school to talk about driving and when asked this exact question he said they just want us to get taxis.

A taxi to my house costs 80 dollars, and because I went to school further in towards the city, nobody else lives near me.
Cannot.  afford.