How much studying do you need to put in? and a few other questions!

[X_x]

Hey everyone,
I plan on doing a Science degree next year, and hopefully get into medicine. Relative to VCE year 12 (or any other high school year), how much studying would be enough to get a competitive GPA and GAMSAT for entry into medicine? How many hours at home would you dedicate to studying your uni degree? I know this varies for everyone, but please share your personal experiences as it is still a good indicator!

Also, how many subjects can you do in a science degree? My plan B is engineering, so can I take subjects that are prerequisites for engineering AND prerequisites for medicine or will it be too much (more than maximum number of subjects a student can take)?

Lastly, when would be a good time to start studying for the GAMSAT?

Thanks!

[simpak]

I have no idea about engineering but okay so:

I haven't chosen my major yet as I am currently studying overseas on exchange, but at home I probably do around 13-15 hours of study on a Saturday or Sunday and then around 7 hours study on a day I also have class, but that would also depend on when I had work so it could increase or decrease a little bit.  It all kind of depends on how confident you are in the material, how well you study and what kind of study you're doing. I don't sit down and say 'okay I am going to study for x hours  today' I just kind of start and then stop when I get tired.  MOST PEOPLE WOULD SAY MY STUDY HABITS ARE EXCESSIVE THOUGH and not dedicate their lives to uni (an attractive proposition to most).  Last semester, studying that much, I had a 95 average but to get a H1 in Uni you only need an 80, so if I wanted an 80 I could probably reduce that amount of studying by a couple to a few hours per day. When they look at your GPA, everything over an 80 will count as 'the same' so basically in the eyes of postgraduate entry I have the same average as someone getting scores 15% less than mine. So I would just aim for 80 if you're concerned - obviously try to do better if you think you can!  But in comparison to VCE you have to study for longer periods and do more work once you get to Uni to get good scores.

The reason I comment on major is that engineering and med are not entirely similar so depending on how difficult you find either the health sciences (which is what the majority of people looking at Medicine would probably take as a major) or engineering, you may have to work more or less.  If I were doing an engineering major I would not even finish a Bachelors degree, let alone get in to Medicine, because I am that terrible at math.

To have a competitive GPA you would want like a H1 average, a couple of H2As shouldn't hurt too much though so you have some leeway there...depending on the GAMSAT score you can achieve.

In terms of when to start studying for the GAMSAT, a lot of people will take it twice - once in March of their penultimate year and once in March of their final year so that they have two attempts. I didn't take it last March so I'm only going to take it once AND I'm only going to start studying for it when I get back from the United States in mid-Jan, mostly because I don't even know if I want to do medicine yet and I know I want to be here on exchange! But I know other people take it far more seriously than I am doing and start studying months in advance.  This is kind of my 'fun period' so I actually do expect to be spending hours every day studying for it when I get home.  Others might start studying earlier and do less studying every day. Again, I think it depends on how hard you want to work at it, how much material is new to you (for instance, you may not be familiar with the Physics component and have to learn everything from scratch) and how much is largely revision (eg parts of Organic Chemistry that parallel with Chem 2) and how difficult you find each of the three sections.  Probably a good idea to start doing some non-strenuous study a couple of months before the exam and then build up from there for your first attempt, get an idea and then adjust what you do from there. Presuming you take it twice, which seems to be the norm out of my friends.

[bridger]

Hi,
In terms of relative to VCE, I've found the biggest difference to be that while VCE is one hard slog of relative constant study all year round, university varies in study intensity depending on the time of semester etc. I think as you go through uni you learn to be very "economical" about your study habits. You really learn to be as productive and effective in the time you have, and often at uni that isn't much time at all! You have to identify the study habits from VCE that are hugely time consuming for the amount of benefit you get from them (for example, I found re-writing notes, which was one of my main study habits in VCE, to be very time consuming at uni so I ditched it and learnt to make concise summaries relating to key points from lectures). Uni is also a time to branch out your interests, so make use of this!
In terms of GPA and GAMSAT scores competitive for medicine, it's hard to exactly say. I went through the application process this year as did much of my cohort and there have been people with all sorts of scores get offers. I'd say to feel comfortable you would want a GAMSAT score in the mid-60s at least to feel comfortable. I had a GAMSAT of 68 and GPA of 6.2ish (can't remember exactly) and got a CSP, however I am from a rural background so that would have helped in my application. I'd say for GPA you would want to aim for mid-6ish to be comfortable again. You don't have to be getting straight H1s of whatever, just be somewhat consistent. I think 75 is a good aim for all your uni subjects.
In terms of when to start studying for the GAMSAT, it really depends. Remember that GAMSAT as a test is used to show your interpretation of information and being able to apply that to a problem. You don't have to have memorized anything. Of course it helps to be familiar with topics, and doing a Science degree means you will be very familiar with the concepts in the science section of GAMSAT. Practising is good, and the ACER questions you can buy are probably the best source of practise. I personally familiarised myself with concepts and practised my essay style a couple times before the day. I didn't do that much, but I think just over the summer before you sit it familiarise yourself with topics, refine your essay style and just do your best when the day comes!

[Elnino_Gerrard]

I haven't chosen my major yet as I am currently studying overseas on exchange, but at home I probably do around 13-15 hours of study on a Saturday or Sunday and then around 7 hours study on a day I also have class, [\b]
 

[X_x]

thank you so much for your help!
That's a lot of study, I can't bear the thought of studying that much in uni. I was always under the impression that 2 hours a day would suffice a good score lol
I'll most likely use the three months of holidays (between 2nd and 3rd year) to study as much GAMSAT as I can as well and do bits and pieces prior to third year.
Once again, thank you for your help!

[Russ]

mavis is crazy, ignore everything she says, since she's the 1% (I love you mavis, please don't hurt me)

I studied for a couple of hours a day on weekdays and more on weekends. Never studied after dinner. If I got home from uni mid afternoon, I'd study for 2-3 hours until dinner etc.
On weekends I'd usually do a couple of hours in the morning, break for an extended lunch and w/e and then study again from 3pm-6pm or so.

During the exam period it is obviously much more (ie all day)

When you study for the GAMSAT depends a lot on your experience with the science component. If you haven't done it and you need to learn it from scratch, you'll need to go all summer break to get up to speed. In contrast I started studying the day after Australia Day (end of January) and all of Feb/start of March. Worked pretty well, I sat it once.

You don't need -all- H1s but it's much more important to get H1s in 3rd year than in 1st year. I got 1 H1 in first year (too much time at the pub ) and then got mostly H1s for the rest of my degree. So you can take time to settle into uni and still make it through.

[simpak]

mavis is crazy, ignore everything she says, since she's the 1% (I love you mavis, please don't hurt me)

)': Alas, it is true.  I don't expect everyone to be me.

[X_x]

Ahh sweet!
Also, what GAMSAT prep would provide the best preparation for the test?
What difference is there to the GAMSAT and UMAT in terms of difficulty and why do you think so?
I did UMAT this year and medentry. My section 1 score was absolute rubbish but I did quite decent in section 3 because of medentry. Does GAMSAT require innate skills (i.e. like how section of the umat) or can you learn these skills over a the three years at uni?
I want to study more efficiently in uni as I plan to do other things than study (stay fit and healthy, sport, part-time job and social work), but I am not sure how 'intense' uni is. Would it be comparative to 9th, 10th or even 11th grade?
Lastly, out of all those from melbourne uni who try out for medicine, approximately what percentage get in?

Sorry for the bombardment of questions, hope you can help!

[bridger]

Ahh sweet!
Also, what GAMSAT prep would provide the best preparation for the test?
What difference is there to the GAMSAT and UMAT in terms of difficulty and why do you think so?
I did UMAT this year and medentry. My section 1 score was absolute rubbish but I did quite decent in section 3 because of medentry. Does GAMSAT require innate skills (i.e. like how section of the umat) or can you learn these skills over a the three years at uni?
I want to study more efficiently in uni as I plan to do other things than study (stay fit and healthy, sport, part-time job and social work), but I am not sure how 'intense' uni is. Would it be comparative to 9th, 10th or even 11th grade?
Lastly, out of all those from melbourne uni who try out for medicine, approximately what percentage get in?

Sorry for the bombardment of questions, hope you can help!

It's good to question these things! Helps in figuring out what to do and how to approach decisions about your course
Ok, so there are three sections to the GAMSAT as you probably already know - 1. Reasoning in Humanities and Social Sciences 2. Essay Writing 3. Reasoning in Physical and Biological Sciences. The first section is very similar to the first sections of UMAT (I can't remember exactly, year 12 seems so long ago now... all I remember is section 3 was those puzzles). However, in UMAT there is no essay writing or science section like there is in GAMSAT. The big difference between the two tests I think is the length. GAMSAT is literally the whole day, with the third section itself going for three hours. In this respect it is more difficult that UMAT. However, I feel like with the essay writing and science sections GAMSAT gives you more of an opportunity to be able to do well (if that makes sense... haha).
In terms of prep, when you come closer to doing it you'll be able to talk to people who recently did it and figure out what was best for them and how they approached it. Personally I found that the official ACER material was the best practise. Essay writing you can also practise on it's own. There are heaps of companies that produce prep material, I didn't purchase any though so I'm probably not the best person to ask on which ones are best haha.
GAMSAT requires you to be able to apply information given to a problem. You are presented with information (could be something like the respiratory system of a bird, as an example) and you are asked questions based on this information. Often it will require you to interpret graphs or diagrams. In the humanities section you will be presented with say a slab of text and be asked questions relating to this text. You may also be presented with other forms of stimulus, such as poetry or a cartoon. Essentially it is a test on interpreting information, that's how I felt about it.
I think uni is definitely more intense that 9th, 10th or 11th grade, but I do think there is a real difference in the learning style of uni and school so it is sometimes hard to compare. I would say it's comparable to year twelve, but with shorter and more concentrated periods of intense study (such as SWOTVAC, or mid-semester assessment time). This is just my opinion though haha. It also depends how much you work and study at uni I guess, some people are happy to do enough to get by and probably feel uni is much less intense than year twelve, but if you're aiming high it can be of a fairly high intensity.
Not sure on the stats of your last question. I'm not sure if anyone has the stats. The Doctor of Medicine is a graduate entry degree though, so remember that anyone with an undergrad degree from any degree can apply for entry (provided they have fulfilled the prerequisites). So there is competition from all around, but generally a large majority of the Biomed cohort applies and a large number of Science kids do too.
Hope this helps answer some questions

[VivaTequila]

Just to contextualise my 1st year experience thus far...

I basically don't study, but I don't get the best marks either. I do much less than I did in VCE.

Last semester, my grades were:
58 (Calculus 1 A.K.A. Spesh-In-A-Semester) P - Pass
77 (1st Year 1st Sem Biol ) - H2A - 2nd Class Honours A
80 (Chemistry 1 ) - H1 - 1st Class Honours (just the right amount of work - would've made no difference if I'd gotten 80 or 100 because I still get 1st Class Hons.)
77 (Russian 1 ) - H2A - 2nd Class Honours A

This semester, I'm expecting something more like
60 Physics 2
75-85 Biol 2
75+ Chem 2
80+ Russian 2

My grades are obviously much lower, but I don't study. I enjoy life too much - I'm independent and I work anywhere from 25-40 hours a week, so I probably would get about 5 hours of intermittent study done on normal weeks, with anything probably an average of 15hrs/p/w during exams. I'm simply too busy to have the time to study, and I find it INCREDIBLY tedious at 1st year because I'm only doing two subjects that I actually enjoy (Chemistry and Russian). Biology is such a bore, and Calculus and Physics were just fillers because I absolutely despised them, hence the lower marks in those subjects. I basically didn't go to Physics lectures or tutes for a semester, and left myself a day to cram the course.

Uni is much more relaxed - how well you do is entirely up to you. You're a small fish in a big pond and nobody cares who you are or what you want to do, so you have to decide yourself to make the most of it.

I never particularly found it easy to study anyway, though. I just learn it once, properly in lectures, and hope it sticks. It's not the best strategy because I always leave myself too little time to cram. I think I'm a pretty cliched uni student when it comes to exams - I just cram cram cram.