Who believes in evolution?

[Glockmeister]

That was confusing ... are you saying that any "proof" that a god exists (and by extension, therefore, that creationism is true) is limited to each believer's personal experiences?

Yes.

Then I must believe evolution, because I have seen this occurs in my experience. I have seen bacteria, when manipulated being able to gain antibiotic resistance and grow immensely on a culture plate. The difference here is that, so did the 300 or so other people who take my course.

I think by "communal proof" you mean the process of corroboration of scientific results which all point to the same hypothesis.

'Communal proof' = proof that follows a logical path and therefore can be shared - yeah what you said. Proof of God often does not follow a logical path and thus cannot be shared to any advantage.

Three words. Flying Spagetti Monster.

the logic of your post seems to suggests that a belief of creationism and evolution can co-exist in the same person at the same time. I'm pretty sure that doublethink takes a bit more effort than that.

That was not with reference to evolution.
Adding to what I said, science and spirituality can work together in most cases, except where your religions text(i.e. bible) or inderstanding is contradicted by some hypothesis.

In the case of evolution from the bible the earth is only ~6000 years old so for me that puts out evolution due to the timescale.

Ah. A Young Earth Creationist. Unfortunately, I don't buy that argument. The Earth is aeons longer than that. You must remember that it wasn't God that wrote that book, but men. It's not infallible. In fact the biologist that I quoted earlier, Theodosius Dobzhansky, made the point in the same essay where that quote came from

"Does the evolutionary doctrine clash with religious faith? It does not. It is a blunder to mistake the Holy Scriptures for elementary textbooks of astronomy, geology, biology, and anthropology. Only if symbols are construed to mean what they are not intended to mean can there arise imaginary, insoluble conflicts. As pointed out above, the blunder leads to blasphemy: the Creator is accused of systematic deceitfulness." (Dobzhansky, 1973, p.129)

Two questions needs to be asked and answered before evolution can be really be disproven. One, what empirical evidence is there to suggest that evolution is somehow completely wrong? And two, what evidence is there for creationism?

References:
Dobzhansky, T. (1973). Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution. The American Biology Teacher, 35, 125-129.

[clinton_09]

Can someone please answer the following question, ive had a really good conversation about evolution with a fellow member of VN and i want to know what other people think.

How did the apes get on earth, how were these "transforming apes" created? i cannot find this answer anywhere

[ninwa]

i cannot find this answer anywhere

...

Despite the uncertainty on how life began, it is generally accepted that prokaryotes inhabited the Earth from approximately 3–4 billion years ago.

The eukaryotes were the next major change in cell structure. These came from ancient bacteria being engulfed by the ancestors of eukaryotic cells, in a cooperative association called endosymbiosis. The engulfed bacteria and the host cell then underwent co-evolution, with the bacteria evolving into either mitochondria or hydrogenosomes. An independent second engulfment of cyanobacterial-like organisms led to the formation of chloroplasts in algae and plants.

The history of life was that of the unicellular eukaryotes, prokaryotes, and archaea until about 610 million years ago when multicellular organisms began to appear in the oceans in the Ediacaran period. The evolution of multicellularity occurred in multiple independent events, in organisms as diverse as sponges, brown algae, cyanobacteria, slime moulds and myxobacteria.

Soon after the emergence of these first multicellular organisms, a remarkable amount of biological diversity appeared over approximately 10 million years, in an event called the Cambrian explosion. Here, the majority of types of modern animals appeared in the fossil record, as well as unique lineages that subsequently became extinct. Various triggers for the Cambrian explosion have been proposed, including the accumulation of oxygen in the atmosphere from photosynthesis.

About 500 million years ago, plants and fungi colonized the land, and were soon followed by arthropods and other animals. Amphibians first appeared around 300 million years ago, followed by early amniotes, then mammals around 200 million years ago and birds around 100 million years ago (both from "reptile"-like lineages). However, despite the evolution of these large animals, smaller organisms similar to the types that evolved early in this process continue to be highly successful and dominate the Earth, with the majority of both biomass and species being prokaryotes.

For details on the Cambrian explosion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_explosion

[Glockmeister]

i cannot find this answer anywhere

...

Despite the uncertainty on how life began, it is generally accepted that prokaryotes inhabited the Earth from approximately 3–4 billion years ago.

The eukaryotes were the next major change in cell structure. These came from ancient bacteria being engulfed by the ancestors of eukaryotic cells, in a cooperative association called endosymbiosis. The engulfed bacteria and the host cell then underwent co-evolution, with the bacteria evolving into either mitochondria or hydrogenosomes. An independent second engulfment of cyanobacterial-like organisms led to the formation of chloroplasts in algae and plants.

The history of life was that of the unicellular eukaryotes, prokaryotes, and archaea until about 610 million years ago when multicellular organisms began to appear in the oceans in the Ediacaran period. The evolution of multicellularity occurred in multiple independent events, in organisms as diverse as sponges, brown algae, cyanobacteria, slime moulds and myxobacteria.

Soon after the emergence of these first multicellular organisms, a remarkable amount of biological diversity appeared over approximately 10 million years, in an event called the Cambrian explosion. Here, the majority of types of modern animals appeared in the fossil record, as well as unique lineages that subsequently became extinct. Various triggers for the Cambrian explosion have been proposed, including the accumulation of oxygen in the atmosphere from photosynthesis.

About 500 million years ago, plants and fungi colonized the land, and were soon followed by arthropods and other animals. Amphibians first appeared around 300 million years ago, followed by early amniotes, then mammals around 200 million years ago and birds around 100 million years ago (both from "reptile"-like lineages). However, despite the evolution of these large animals, smaller organisms similar to the types that evolved early in this process continue to be highly successful and dominate the Earth, with the majority of both biomass and species being prokaryotes.

For details on the Cambrian explosion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian_explosion

I prefer diagrams



There's an explanation on the diagram, but just to give you a basic idea, this diagram is called a Phylogenetic Tree and in this diagram basically uses commonalty of genes between animals of the Hominoidea family (which includes us). This allows to track when common species diverged to form different animals. Image from Maier (2004).

You could build one of these things for every practically any known species on the planet, provided you have some of their genetic material.

That answer your question?

References:
Maier, C. A. (2004). Building a Phylogenetic Tree of the Human & Ape Superfamily Using DNA-DNA Hybridization Data. The American Biology Teacher 66(, 560-566. doi:10.1662/0002-7685(2004)066[0560:BAPTOT]2.0.CO;2

[xXNovaxX]

how comes apes don't turn into humans anymore.....lol, a rather blunt question. But yeah.

[QuantumJG]

I haven't read what other people have said but excuse me if i have repeated what has already been said. If evolution does exist, then why aren't apes and monkeys still transforming, how did they just stop? also Darwin didnt even believe what he made up, he was shocked that people believed him. Also the fact that Darwin became a christian is pretty solid proof that evolution does not exist.

The theory is that we have evolved from lower order species! This is the main part to the theory.

So with the apes part:

There was a time when humans and apes were linked together, there was a time when our ancestor was the same ancestor for a whale, etc. Evolution is like a tree, there it starts from one thing and expands making branches. So there was a primal ape creature and then after ages this creature evolved into two other forms: one which developed into apes and one which developed into humans, for us we had a lot of branches but we were the only to survive because we were able to outsmart the other human species in times of competition.

Adaptation explains why there ae several races of humans, humans in times of lack of resources migrated to different regions of the globe to live in new areas and hence over time adapted to suit those areas.

The thing with religious people is that they play that clichéd "why can't monkeys turn into human now" trick over and over like a broken record to try and make the laymen person think that scientists are "out-there" weirdos. If you guys actually looked at the science you will see why monkeys can't turn into humans, because they split away from our common ancestor ages ago.

Anyway as what Ali G said to the guy who doesn't believe evolution: "Have you eaten a banana" I lol'd at this because its the only answer that guy deserved.

[ninwa]

[deleted my post in deference to QuantumJG's much more knowledgeable and correct explanation ]

[xXNovaxX]

me too

[xXNovaxX]

I haven't read what other people have said but excuse me if i have repeated what has already been said. If evolution does exist, then why aren't apes and monkeys still transforming, how did they just stop? also Darwin didnt even believe what he made up, he was shocked that people believed him. Also the fact that Darwin became a christian is pretty solid proof that evolution does not exist.

So with the apes part:

There was a time when humans and apes were linked together, there was a time when our ancestor was the same ancestor for a whale, etc. Evolution is like a tree, there it starts from one thing and expands making branches. So there was a primal ape creature and then after ages this creature evolved into two other forms: one which developed into apes and one which developed into humans, for us we had a lot of branches but we were the only to survive because we were able to outsmart the other human species in times of competition.

Adaptation explains why there ae several races of humans, humans in times of lack of resources migrated to different regions of the globe to live in new areas and hence over time adapted to suit those areas.

The thing with religious people is that they play that clichéd "why can't monkeys turn into human now" trick over and over like a broken record to try and make the laymen person think that scientists are "out-there" weirdos. If you guys actually looked at the science you will see why monkeys can't turn into humans, because they split away from our common ancestor ages ago.

Anyway as what Ali G said to the guy who doesn't believe evolution: "Have you eaten a banana" I lol'd at this because its the only answer that guy deserved.

That's so interesting! Does that mean from what I udnerstood, they can NEVER even in 999999 years turn into humans again, or is it we just can't tell. Wow, thanks for that, nice and concise.

The theory is that we have evolved from lower order species! This is the main part to the theory.


mod action: fixed your quoting

[Glockmeister]

how comes apes don't turn into humans anymore.....lol, a rather blunt question. But yeah.

One, in theory, anything could turn into anything but for complex systems like ours or apes for that matter,you'd be long dead before you see it. Like you know, only dead for 11,999,920 years.

Secondly, as you can see from the image from Maier, we are apes. Apes is a very poor taxonomical term. Let's use some binomial classification. Let's use Gorilla gorilla, which is a type of gorilla incidently. It's diverged from the rest of the Hominidae family a long time ago (12 million years), and so it's unlikely that modern day gorillas with turn into humans. They may turn into something else however.

[QuantumJG]

I haven't read what other people have said but excuse me if i have repeated what has already been said. If evolution does exist, then why aren't apes and monkeys still transforming, how did they just stop? also Darwin didnt even believe what he made up, he was shocked that people believed him. Also the fact that Darwin became a christian is pretty solid proof that evolution does not exist.

So with the apes part:

There was a time when humans and apes were linked together, there was a time when our ancestor was the same ancestor for a whale, etc. Evolution is like a tree, there it starts from one thing and expands making branches. So there was a primal ape creature and then after ages this creature evolved into two other forms: one which developed into apes and one which developed into humans, for us we had a lot of branches but we were the only to survive because we were able to outsmart the other human species in times of competition.

Adaptation explains why there ae several races of humans, humans in times of lack of resources migrated to different regions of the globe to live in new areas and hence over time adapted to suit those areas.

The thing with religious people is that they play that clichéd "why can't monkeys turn into human now" trick over and over like a broken record to try and make the laymen person think that scientists are "out-there" weirdos. If you guys actually looked at the science you will see why monkeys can't turn into humans, because they split away from our common ancestor ages ago.

Anyway as what Ali G said to the guy who doesn't believe evolution: "Have you eaten a banana" I lol'd at this because its the only answer that guy deserved.

That's so interesting! Does that mean from what I udnerstood, they can NEVER even in 999999 years turn into humans again, or is it we just can't tell. Wow, thanks for that, nice and concise.

The theory is that we have evolved from lower order species! This is the main part to the theory.


mod action: fixed your quoting

Apes in essence wont turn into say us, but, it could be possible that apes evolve into a different kind of human species in such that they could end up advancing in communication skills, become completely bipedal, improve intelligence, etc.

My biology teacher in year 10 said there are theories that humans may evolve to be double jointed, humans may loose their nails (we don't really need them to hunt or to groom ourselves), the average human IQ could end up increasing damatically, longer life expectancy (considering over time we have gone from life expectancies of >40 years to now atleast 70, it could end up being normal to live to 100), with the supply of food we could loose our ability to store excess energy as fat as what we did ages ago to be able to handle famine therefore lower the number of obese people, our gait could end up being improved to combat any joint problems associated with aging, etc.

[enwiabe]

o to be a fly on the wall in a million years time

[Glockmeister]

I haven't read what other people have said but excuse me if i have repeated what has already been said. If evolution does exist, then why aren't apes and monkeys still transforming, how did they just stop? also Darwin didnt even believe what he made up, he was shocked that people believed him. Also the fact that Darwin became a christian is pretty solid proof that evolution does not exist.

So with the apes part:

There was a time when humans and apes were linked together, there was a time when our ancestor was the same ancestor for a whale, etc. Evolution is like a tree, there it starts from one thing and expands making branches. So there was a primal ape creature and then after ages this creature evolved into two other forms: one which developed into apes and one which developed into humans, for us we had a lot of branches but we were the only to survive because we were able to outsmart the other human species in times of competition.

Adaptation explains why there ae several races of humans, humans in times of lack of resources migrated to different regions of the globe to live in new areas and hence over time adapted to suit those areas.

The thing with religious people is that they play that clichéd "why can't monkeys turn into human now" trick over and over like a broken record to try and make the laymen person think that scientists are "out-there" weirdos. If you guys actually looked at the science you will see why monkeys can't turn into humans, because they split away from our common ancestor ages ago.

Anyway as what Ali G said to the guy who doesn't believe evolution: "Have you eaten a banana" I lol'd at this because its the only answer that guy deserved.

That's so interesting! Does that mean from what I udnerstood, they can NEVER even in 999999 years turn into humans again, or is it we just can't tell. Wow, thanks for that, nice and concise.

The theory is that we have evolved from lower order species! This is the main part to the theory.


mod action: fixed your quoting

Apes in essence wont turn into say us, but, it could be possible that apes evolve into a different kind of human species in such that they could end up advancing in communication skills, become completely bipedal, improve intelligence, etc.

My biology teacher in year 10 said there are theories that humans may evolve to be double jointed, humans may loose their nails (we don't really need them to hunt or to groom ourselves), the average human IQ could end up increasing damatically, longer life expectancy (considering over time we have gone from life expectancies of >40 years to now atleast 70, it could end up being normal to live to 100), with the supply of food we could loose our ability to store excess energy as fat as what we did ages ago to be able to handle famine therefore lower the number of obese people, our gait could end up being improved to combat any joint problems associated with aging, etc.

Of course, there the other possibility that we'd end up blind, lame, mentally retarded, deformed etc. if there are significant changes to the environment which means that we would not be able to survive in the current way that we live (climate change could potentially do that)

[TrueLight]

my points still stand!  you cannot prove evolution was the reason we are like we are today ..... some of the above are just things we observe and test now that people use as a reason to theorise how we came about

[Glockmeister]

my points still stand!  you cannot prove evolution was the reason we are like we are today ..... some of the above are just things we observe and test now that people use as a reason to theorise how we came about

you can't prove gravity was the reason things fall when they are dropped...