Wing gundam zero v 00 Raiser v Strike Freedom

[Over9000]

With their respective series pilots so newtype powers must be considered

Strike Freedom w/ Kira Yamato: Pilot is a coordinator and has enhanced battle abilities over naturals, ability to use SEED mode to increase reaction time and other human senses. METEOR pack is included for the fight. Beam rifles (anti ship), rail cannons with aimbot plothax, and super dragoon system and beam sabers.

00 Raiser w/ Setsuna F Seiei: Pilot is a pure innovator, has the ability to sense everything around him and thus he is able to predict enemy movements, enhanced reactions and strength. Ability to use trans-am to increase gundam strength by 3 times.00 Raiser sword, GN field, Dual beam rifles which have a spread shot 'machinegun' effect in trans am, beam swords, solid swords, the ability to quantize (the gundam vaporizes in thin air and reappears behind the enemy).

Wing Gundam w/ Heero Yuy: Pilot is a natural, no special abilities but is specially trained since birth and so he has reflexes and combat skillz that almost rival a newtype. Twin buster rifles, Neo-Bird mode (for enhanced speed), ZERO system (floods pilots mind with combat data and possible outcomes), beam sabers, shield.

I personally think that Kira's Strike Freedom is more of a heavy armored heavy firepower unti that excels against slow targets which his autoaim railguns can hit with ease and also lesser units. The dragoon system is the only weapon of Strike Freedom that would help it out in this battle (aside from beam sabers which isnt Kira's forte). Since Setsuna has shown taht he can easily dodge dragoon type systems without trans am, this is largely ineffective. Heero's ZERO system would render the DRAGOON system usless as it can predict where the beams would come from. So I would put it down to 00 Raiser v Wing Zero. Between the two, I think it would be a very close fight as the gundams are pretty equally matched and setsuna as pure innovator = zero system so they wud cancel out. 00 Raiser has shown to be skilled at melee and ranged combat, Wing zero excels at ranged but is still good with melee. But I think trans am settles it for me, Setsuna could quantize just as Heero is about to slash him with his beam saber, reappear behind Wing zero and take it out with his GN sword. Although im assuming zero system isnt fast enough to calculate 00 raiser moving faster than the speed of light.
So in summary, 00 raiser wins for me.

Anyone else's thoughts?

[IntoTheNewWorld]

00 Raiser + Setsuna is just too hax >_> Trans Am just keeps getting stronger and stronger for no reason...And upgrades just keep coming.

[Over9000]

00 Raiser + Setsuna is just too hax >_> Trans Am just keeps getting stronger and stronger for no reason...And upgrades just keep coming.

You know whats scary, his gonna get funnel system apparently in the upcoming movie as well as other upgrades. Lol, 00 raiser with funnels is like way past God like.

[TrueTears]

00 Raiser - no more needs to be said.

[EvangelionZeta]

Kira doesn't stand a chance in this.  Gundanium Alloy has been shown as nigh-invincible against anything short of BFGs (eg. Dobergun, Twin Buster Rifle)+his aimbot-style targetting would be woefully inadequate against the ZERO system.  Setsuna's speed is also too fast for Kira to keep track of, especially since Kira is completely unprepared weapons-wise for the 00's melee arsenal.

Between Wing Zero and 00, I think Heero has the advantage of being the better pilot (seriously, Setsuna struggles in the first series against people like Ali and Graham, whereas Heero is almost god-like).  Nevertheless, the Twin Buster Rifle is pretty worthless against a fast target, and whilst Heero is definitely skilled in melee (evidence: final fight of the series), Setsuna's Gundam having so many more options puts him a bit over the edge.  The only possible advantage I can see Heero having is Gundanium's strength as an armour; I'm not sure how powerful the GN Sword is, but it's probably not enough to destroy the Wing Zero in a single hit (I'd imagine many many would be required). In contrast, the Wing Zero's beam saber is capable of standing up against the Epyon's battleship destroying one, so I'd imagine it wouldn't take more than a hit or two to take down Setsuna with Heero's skill.

Basically, between Heero and Setsuna it comes down to whether or not Heero is fast enough in landing the vital one or two hits before Setsuna beats him through attrition.  Setsuna has speed on his side there, but Heero has the ZERO system.  I'd give it 75% in Setsuna's favour.

[IntoTheNewWorld]

But 00 Raiser has the Raiser Sword, which is epically huge and powerful.


...and he can quantize

[Over9000]

Kira doesn't stand a chance in this.  Gundanium Alloy has been shown as nigh-invincible against anything short of BFGs (eg. Dobergun, Twin Buster Rifle)+his aimbot-style targetting would be woefully inadequate against the ZERO system.  Setsuna's speed is also too fast for Kira to keep track of, especially since Kira is completely unprepared weapons-wise for the 00's melee arsenal.

Between Wing Zero and 00, I think Heero has the advantage of being the better pilot (seriously, Setsuna struggles in the first series against people like Ali and Graham, whereas Heero is almost god-like).  Nevertheless, the Twin Buster Rifle is pretty worthless against a fast target, and whilst Heero is definitely skilled in melee (evidence: final fight of the series), Setsuna's Gundam having so many more options puts him a bit over the edge.  The only possible advantage I can see Heero having is Gundanium's strength as an armour; I'm not sure how powerful the GN Sword is, but it's probably not enough to destroy the Wing Zero in a single hit (I'd imagine many many would be required). In contrast, the Wing Zero's beam saber is capable of standing up against the Epyon's battleship destroying one, so I'd imagine it wouldn't take more than a hit or two to take down Setsuna with Heero's skill.

Basically, between Heero and Setsuna it comes down to whether or not Heero is fast enough in landing the vital one or two hits before Setsuna beats him through attrition.  Setsuna has speed on his side there, but Heero has the ZERO system.

Unfortunately ur not taking into consideration that graham and ali ARE good pilots,lol. Graham and Ali are highly experienced (more than u can say for most pilots in gundam universe) just look up grahamas histroy and we all know ali's. Yes, setsuna struggles with them first season but notice I am reffering to an innovated Setsuna with newtype abiltities. Unfortunately Heero doesnt have newtype abiltites. Setsuna near the end of season 2 defeats graham in what you could say was an almost fair fight, so I still think that Setsuna is the more talented pilot post- innovation and taking into account his mobile suit, 00 raiser is too fast to get touched by wing ZERO.
You could say graham is like gundam 00's char or zechs in which case losing to them pre innovation is no indication of being a dodgy pilot.

[EvangelionZeta]

But 00 Raiser has the Raiser Sword, which is epically huge and powerful.


...and he can quantize

Quantizing wouldn't work against Heero and the ZERO system after the first time (I'm guessing).  The Raiser Sword is like the Twin Buster Rifle; epic and powerful, but against a single enemy (a smart, fast one at that) it doesn't work.  Setsuna is basically going to have to rely on the fastest attacks he has, even with the uber speed.  Still, it's mostly in his favour.

Better question would be the battle of pure h4x; who wins between Usso Ebbing in the V2 Assault Buster Gundam vs Setsuna F. Seiei in the 00 Raiser.

[Over9000]

But 00 Raiser has the Raiser Sword, which is epically huge and powerful.


...and he can quantize

Quantizing wouldn't work against Heero and the ZERO system after the first time (I'm guessing).  The Raiser Sword is like the Twin Buster Rifle; epic and powerful, but against a single enemy (a smart, fast one at that) it doesn't work.  Setsuna is basically going to have to rely on the fastest attacks he has, even with the uber speed.  Still, it's mostly in his favour.

Better question would be the battle of pure h4x; who wins between Usso Ebbing in the V2 Assault Buster Gundam vs Setsuna F. Seiei in the 00 Raiser.

Havent heard of Usso Ebbing, what Gundam series is he from?

[EvangelionZeta]

Kira doesn't stand a chance in this.  Gundanium Alloy has been shown as nigh-invincible against anything short of BFGs (eg. Dobergun, Twin Buster Rifle)+his aimbot-style targetting would be woefully inadequate against the ZERO system.  Setsuna's speed is also too fast for Kira to keep track of, especially since Kira is completely unprepared weapons-wise for the 00's melee arsenal.

Between Wing Zero and 00, I think Heero has the advantage of being the better pilot (seriously, Setsuna struggles in the first series against people like Ali and Graham, whereas Heero is almost god-like).  Nevertheless, the Twin Buster Rifle is pretty worthless against a fast target, and whilst Heero is definitely skilled in melee (evidence: final fight of the series), Setsuna's Gundam having so many more options puts him a bit over the edge.  The only possible advantage I can see Heero having is Gundanium's strength as an armour; I'm not sure how powerful the GN Sword is, but it's probably not enough to destroy the Wing Zero in a single hit (I'd imagine many many would be required). In contrast, the Wing Zero's beam saber is capable of standing up against the Epyon's battleship destroying one, so I'd imagine it wouldn't take more than a hit or two to take down Setsuna with Heero's skill.

Basically, between Heero and Setsuna it comes down to whether or not Heero is fast enough in landing the vital one or two hits before Setsuna beats him through attrition.  Setsuna has speed on his side there, but Heero has the ZERO system.

Unfortunately ur not taking into consideration that graham and ali ARE good pilots,lol. Graham and Ali are highly experienced (more than u can say for most pilots in gundam universe) just look up grahamas histroy and we all know ali's. Yes, setsuna struggles with them first season but notice I am reffering to an innovated Setsuna with newtype abiltities. Unfortunately Heero doesnt have newtype abiltites. Setsuna near the end of season 2 defeats graham in what you could say was an almost fair fight, so I still think that Setsuna is the more talented pilot post- innovation and taking into account his mobile suit, 00 raiser is too fast to get touched by wing ZERO.
You could say graham is like gundam 00's char or zechs in which case losing to them pre innovation is no indication of being a dodgy pilot.

Of course Graham and Ali are good pilots; however, season 1, their suits are woeful compared to the Meister Gundams.  

Fair enough with it being Innovated Setsuna though.  There's actually evidence in Heero having some sort of Newtype powers (I think?  Quatre definitely, not 100% sure on Heero), but the ZERO system puts him above most Newtypes in terms of piloting skill anyway.  

Anyway, after rewatching the fight, I don't think it's really "fair".  Graham didn't really have any options after losing his weapons, whereas Setsuna just pulled out more swords - plus, evidently, the Susanoo isn't very durable (hence the win after...two beam sabers to the shoulder?  wut?).  Still, like I said, it's in Setsuna's favour.

Usso is from V Gundam.  Basically, the V2 AB Gundam can move fast enough to produce after-images (ie. 00 Raiser speed), has two MASSIVE beam sabers on its back (Wings of Light), has about twenty billion guns, an I-Field (blocks all beam attacks), anti-beam coating armour and a Newtype pilot to boot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wWUI2H4ZYM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr2gcnYZOVQ

I also recommend this video just for lols:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4qb2O_m-NA&feature=PlayList&p=884E4EF576FB67F0&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=49

[Over9000]

Kira doesn't stand a chance in this.  Gundanium Alloy has been shown as nigh-invincible against anything short of BFGs (eg. Dobergun, Twin Buster Rifle)+his aimbot-style targetting would be woefully inadequate against the ZERO system.  Setsuna's speed is also too fast for Kira to keep track of, especially since Kira is completely unprepared weapons-wise for the 00's melee arsenal.

Between Wing Zero and 00, I think Heero has the advantage of being the better pilot (seriously, Setsuna struggles in the first series against people like Ali and Graham, whereas Heero is almost god-like).  Nevertheless, the Twin Buster Rifle is pretty worthless against a fast target, and whilst Heero is definitely skilled in melee (evidence: final fight of the series), Setsuna's Gundam having so many more options puts him a bit over the edge.  The only possible advantage I can see Heero having is Gundanium's strength as an armour; I'm not sure how powerful the GN Sword is, but it's probably not enough to destroy the Wing Zero in a single hit (I'd imagine many many would be required). In contrast, the Wing Zero's beam saber is capable of standing up against the Epyon's battleship destroying one, so I'd imagine it wouldn't take more than a hit or two to take down Setsuna with Heero's skill.

Basically, between Heero and Setsuna it comes down to whether or not Heero is fast enough in landing the vital one or two hits before Setsuna beats him through attrition.  Setsuna has speed on his side there, but Heero has the ZERO system.

Unfortunately ur not taking into consideration that graham and ali ARE good pilots,lol. Graham and Ali are highly experienced (more than u can say for most pilots in gundam universe) just look up grahamas histroy and we all know ali's. Yes, setsuna struggles with them first season but notice I am reffering to an innovated Setsuna with newtype abiltities. Unfortunately Heero doesnt have newtype abiltites. Setsuna near the end of season 2 defeats graham in what you could say was an almost fair fight, so I still think that Setsuna is the more talented pilot post- innovation and taking into account his mobile suit, 00 raiser is too fast to get touched by wing ZERO.
You could say graham is like gundam 00's char or zechs in which case losing to them pre innovation is no indication of being a dodgy pilot.

Of course Graham and Ali are good pilots; however, season 1, their suits are woeful compared to the Meister Gundams.  

Fair enough with it being Innovated Setsuna though.  There's actually evidence in Heero having some sort of Newtype powers (I think?  Quatre definitely, not 100% sure on Heero), but the ZERO system puts him above most Newtypes in terms of piloting skill anyway.  

Anyway, after rewatching the fight, I don't think it's really "fair".  Graham didn't really have any options after losing his weapons, whereas Setsuna just pulled out more swords - plus, evidently, the Susanoo isn't very durable (hence the win after...two beam sabers to the shoulder?  wut?).  Still, like I said, it's in Setsuna's favour.

Usso is from V Gundam.  Basically, the V2 AB Gundam can move fast enough to produce after-images (ie. 00 Raiser speed), has two MASSIVE beam sabers on its back (Wings of Light), has about twenty billion guns, an I-Field (blocks all beam attacks), anti-beam coating armour and a Newtype pilot to boot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wWUI2H4ZYM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr2gcnYZOVQ

I also recommend this video just for lols:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4qb2O_m-NA&feature=PlayList&p=884E4EF576FB67F0&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=49

Are u joking? A modified throne is a woeful suit, lol?? A custom flag with GN drive is woeful? I think ur over estimating Setsuna's exia? The exia pre trans am was same level as a throne, yet ali al saachez had a modified throne, after trans amm, setsuna smashed him. Grahams GN drive powered custom flag is probs a bit below exia non trans am, but do u notice how at the end of ep 25 in season 1, grahams suit was new in perfect condition, he was fresh and it was fully upgraded meanwhile setsuna had just fought the albatross and his suit was damaged, he also was tired from the first fight and he had used trans am in the fight agaisnt alejandro. After trans am, particle dispersion rate is greatly lowered, yet he still beat graham, hmm what does that tell you? The figh between Setsuna and graham in season 2 was quite fair, I woulndt put the 00 raiser too far above the susanoo as it had a powered up version of trans am so it was a decent suit at the last. I think ur underestimating Setsuna greatly, and ur also referring too much too pre innovated Setsuna, but as I stated above, at end of season 1 pre innovation he defeated graham in a situation where graham was at an advantage. Graham is a pilot who is most likely par with zechs, zechs and Heero are quite close in piloting skills. So if anything Setsuna > Heero in piloting.

[Over9000]

Also, the statement that Heero with Zero system puts his piloting ability above others isn't correct, piloting ability ignores features of a suit. Otherwise, one could say that the trans am system puts SETSUNA'S piloting ability wayy above everyone else.

[EvangelionZeta]

Kira doesn't stand a chance in this.  Gundanium Alloy has been shown as nigh-invincible against anything short of BFGs (eg. Dobergun, Twin Buster Rifle)+his aimbot-style targetting would be woefully inadequate against the ZERO system.  Setsuna's speed is also too fast for Kira to keep track of, especially since Kira is completely unprepared weapons-wise for the 00's melee arsenal.

Between Wing Zero and 00, I think Heero has the advantage of being the better pilot (seriously, Setsuna struggles in the first series against people like Ali and Graham, whereas Heero is almost god-like).  Nevertheless, the Twin Buster Rifle is pretty worthless against a fast target, and whilst Heero is definitely skilled in melee (evidence: final fight of the series), Setsuna's Gundam having so many more options puts him a bit over the edge.  The only possible advantage I can see Heero having is Gundanium's strength as an armour; I'm not sure how powerful the GN Sword is, but it's probably not enough to destroy the Wing Zero in a single hit (I'd imagine many many would be required). In contrast, the Wing Zero's beam saber is capable of standing up against the Epyon's battleship destroying one, so I'd imagine it wouldn't take more than a hit or two to take down Setsuna with Heero's skill.

Basically, between Heero and Setsuna it comes down to whether or not Heero is fast enough in landing the vital one or two hits before Setsuna beats him through attrition.  Setsuna has speed on his side there, but Heero has the ZERO system.

Unfortunately ur not taking into consideration that graham and ali ARE good pilots,lol. Graham and Ali are highly experienced (more than u can say for most pilots in gundam universe) just look up grahamas histroy and we all know ali's. Yes, setsuna struggles with them first season but notice I am reffering to an innovated Setsuna with newtype abiltities. Unfortunately Heero doesnt have newtype abiltites. Setsuna near the end of season 2 defeats graham in what you could say was an almost fair fight, so I still think that Setsuna is the more talented pilot post- innovation and taking into account his mobile suit, 00 raiser is too fast to get touched by wing ZERO.
You could say graham is like gundam 00's char or zechs in which case losing to them pre innovation is no indication of being a dodgy pilot.

Of course Graham and Ali are good pilots; however, season 1, their suits are woeful compared to the Meister Gundams.  

Fair enough with it being Innovated Setsuna though.  There's actually evidence in Heero having some sort of Newtype powers (I think?  Quatre definitely, not 100% sure on Heero), but the ZERO system puts him above most Newtypes in terms of piloting skill anyway.  

Anyway, after rewatching the fight, I don't think it's really "fair".  Graham didn't really have any options after losing his weapons, whereas Setsuna just pulled out more swords - plus, evidently, the Susanoo isn't very durable (hence the win after...two beam sabers to the shoulder?  wut?).  Still, like I said, it's in Setsuna's favour.

Usso is from V Gundam.  Basically, the V2 AB Gundam can move fast enough to produce after-images (ie. 00 Raiser speed), has two MASSIVE beam sabers on its back (Wings of Light), has about twenty billion guns, an I-Field (blocks all beam attacks), anti-beam coating armour and a Newtype pilot to boot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wWUI2H4ZYM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr2gcnYZOVQ

I also recommend this video just for lols:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4qb2O_m-NA&feature=PlayList&p=884E4EF576FB67F0&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=49

Are u joking? A modified throne is a woeful suit, lol?? A custom flag with GN drive is woeful? I think ur over estimating Setsuna's exia? The exia pre trans am was same level as a throne, yet ali al saachez had a modified throne, after trans amm, setsuna smashed him. Grahams GN drive powered custom flag is probs a bit below exia non trans am, but do u notice how at the end of ep 25 in season 1, grahams suit was new in perfect condition, he was fresh and it was fully upgraded meanwhile setsuna had just fought the albatross and his suit was damaged, he also was tired from the first fight and he had used trans am in the fight agaisnt alejandro. After trans am, particle dispersion rate is greatly lowered, yet he still beat graham, hmm what does that tell you? The figh between Setsuna and graham in season 2 was quite fair, I woulndt put the 00 raiser too far above the susanoo as it had a powered up version of trans am so it was a decent suit at the last. I think ur underestimating Setsuna greatly, and ur also referring too much too pre innovated Srtsuna, but as I stated above, at end of season 1 pre innovation he defeated graham in a situation where graham was at an advantage. Graham is a pilot who is most likely par with zechs, zechas and Heero are quite close in piloting skills. So if anything Setsuna > Heero in piloting.

Ok.

1. I forgot to consider the GN-Flag fight.  Although that was technically a draw, I guess you can make a case in saying that the Exia won that, so I'll give it to you there.

2.  Yes, the Susanoo is definitely on par with 00 Raiser in terms of Trans-Am, etc.  Armaments and armour-wise, however, it's still a bit lacking - nevertheless, it's a "notable" victory, but Wing Zero is pretty much the polar opposite of Susanoo in regards to defensive capabilities (and it has better weapons to boot).

3. I admitted earlier you were right in saying some of my arguments were based on pre-innovation.  On the other hand, you basically disregarded what I said about Heero potentially having Newtype capabilities+ZERO system.

4. You have no evidence about Graham and Zechs being on-par, and pure skill aside, Zechs has a ZERO system second half of Wing as well, pushing his piloting a league up.  You're also forgetting that Epyon had the advantage in the final fight (bigger beam saber+heat rod+better stats), whereas Setsuna has an advantage in 00 Raiser vs Susanoo, no matter how slight.

5. Heero stood up to Wufei using a Leo versus Nataku.  Exia gets pwned episode 1 season 2 (pre-Innovation, yes) against GN-IIIs (or was it Aheads?).  

6. Master Asia>all.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4qb2O_m-NA&feature=PlayList&p=884E4EF576FB67F0&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=49

[EvangelionZeta]

Also, the statement that Heero with Zero system puts his piloting ability above others isn't correct, piloting ability ignores features of a suit. Otherwise, one could say that the trans am system puts SETSUNA'S piloting ability wayy above everyone else.

The difference is that whereas Trans-Am affects the suit itself, ZERO system only affects the pilot.  I guess you'd have to ignore it if you were talking pure piloting ability, but in regards to it affecting piloting ability it's like how a drug affects an athelete's performance.

Still, Leo vs Nataku. 

[Over9000]

To point 3. What does Heero having supposed newtype abiltites with ZERO system have to do with here, if we are gonna talk with the gundams abiltites I thinks its clear Setsuna owns with 00 raiser. I dont see how Heero has any newtype abilities, he is just a perfect soldier and has been specially trained, yes hes extremely strong but im talking innovators abiltites to read the thoughts of enemies? okay? So Setsuna's newtype abilities > Heero's possible newtype abiltites.

To point 4. Of course I have no evidence on zechs being like graham but we can only make educated guesses can we? U dont have evidence that 00 raisers sword cudnt cut thru gundamnium alloy yet you said previously that it probs cudnt, so ur being a hypocrite.

To point 5. Wufei isn't anything special as a pilot, hes above average, nothing more. Setsuna did get defeated by what umm 2 mobile suits that were 5 years ahead in technology (one ahead and the other was gn-III), he hadnt piloted a mobile suit in 4 years and his suit was battered, so indeed a good time to make a comparison (unfair much?) and yes it was pre innovation so why even consider it once again.

So I think I have proved that (note and please note) after innovation is on par or better than Heero in terms of piloting ability. In the case of kira, he has had no battle training and his skillz rely only on the fact that he is the ultimate coordinator, however when u consider that innovades> normal coordinators (since in seed alot of the normal coordinators are rather lacking in skill whereas all the innovators are exceptional pilots) then id assume pure innovator > ultimate coordinator (as really both arent giant leaps over there counterparts). So I would rate 1.Setsuna, 2.Kira, 3.Heero in terms of piloting ability.