why some people just shouldn't breed

[ninwa]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26244302-421,00.html

AUTHORITIES are losing the battle to control a primary-school-age boy who has become one of Victoria's worst juvenile criminals.

The 11-year-old was charged yet again on Wednesday, this time with 20 counts including eight of burglary, car theft and criminal damage.

Not old enough for secondary school, the boy is in his fifth year of dealing with police in Melbourne's outer eastern suburbs, the Herald Sun reports.

He uses aliases, has learned criminal techniques from older children and taken hundreds of hours of police time.

The boy, who does not attend school, will face a Children's Court in December.

Although in Department of Human Services custody, he roams the streets, chroming, using amphetamines, drinking and smoking cigarettes.

He is regularly reported missing and often commits offences with his 15-year-old brother, also charged over the same matters by detectives from Narre Warren CIU.

[qshyrn]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26244302-421,00.html

AUTHORITIES are losing the battle to control a primary-school-age boy who has become one of Victoria's worst juvenile criminals.

The 11-year-old was charged yet again on Wednesday, this time with 20 counts including eight of burglary, car theft and criminal damage.

Not old enough for secondary school, the boy is in his fifth year of dealing with police in Melbourne's outer eastern suburbs, the Herald Sun reports.

He uses aliases, has learned criminal techniques from older children and taken hundreds of hours of police time.

The boy, who does not attend school, will face a Children's Court in December.

Although in Department of Human Services custody, he roams the streets, chroming, using amphetamines, drinking and smoking cigarettes.

He is regularly reported missing and often commits offences with his 15-year-old brother, also charged over the same matters by detectives from Narre Warren CIU.

u gotta give this boy a chance..  he'll learn one day.

[shinny]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26244302-421,00.html

AUTHORITIES are losing the battle to control a primary-school-age boy who has become one of Victoria's worst juvenile criminals.

The 11-year-old was charged yet again on Wednesday, this time with 20 counts including eight of burglary, car theft and criminal damage.

Not old enough for secondary school, the boy is in his fifth year of dealing with police in Melbourne's outer eastern suburbs, the Herald Sun reports.

He uses aliases, has learned criminal techniques from older children and taken hundreds of hours of police time.

The boy, who does not attend school, will face a Children's Court in December.

Although in Department of Human Services custody, he roams the streets, chroming, using amphetamines, drinking and smoking cigarettes.

He is regularly reported missing and often commits offences with his 15-year-old brother, also charged over the same matters by detectives from Narre Warren CIU.

u gotta give this boy a chance..  he'll learn one day.

After...how many chances? He's already had 20 counts as is, and that's just the stuff he's been caught for. I've known people similar to this (not very closely, but friend's friends, people in my school etc.), although nowhere near as bad, and my experience is that most people won't change. One of the ones I knew from my school similar to this is now in jail since he just continued his ways even after entering adulthood. I'm not saying we should just lock the kid away, but rather, that we should take more initiative to these sorts of cases and actually do something proactive to stop it, rather than reactive after every time he commits another crime, as opposed to doing nothing and giving him more and more chances and hoping the problem fixes itself.

[Eriny]

I think it's pretty sad. If he's already abusing drugs and so on, he probably die quite early. And also, I don't think children have that level of criminality ingrained in them, something must have caused it... How much responsibility should an 11 year old have over their crimes? Because I'm inclined to say that it's at least not entirely his fault.

[lukeperry91]

First of all, Shinny, can you explain what 'proactive initiative' would entail?
My opinion is that some people can be born with mental, social, and physical deficiencies. This boy was born to be a delinquent, and rehabilitation would be very difficult to achieve. Yes his environment and socio-economic circumstances are a factor, but it has to be taken into consideration that not all pedophiles were sexually abused, not all murderers were abused, and not all thieves are poor.
I guess if I cared enough about this kid, I'd lock him to a bed to detox him of all the narcotics in his system, then send him to a juvenile detention centre until he was 18. At least this way he cannot do any more harm to himself and others than if he was on the outside.

[ninwa]

u gotta give this boy a chance..  he'll learn one day.

But at the expense of how many people's lives, financial livelihood, etc.?

I'd like to think he's rehabilitable, but I doubt the state will be brave enough to take the pro-active action shinny mentioned. I don't think people are necessarily born delinquents. But some are born with genetically-defined social deficiencies which increase their chances of becoming someone like this boy.

I think saying that murderers, paedophiles etc. were born like that excuses them from their horrific crimes - saying that on some level they couldn't help what they were doing mitigates their liability. (Especially since criminal law accepts involuntariness as a full defence - i.e. all liability removed if you can prove your actions were involuntary.)

Environmental factors play a (very large) part too. In a lot of these cases, they grow up in socially/economically disadvantaged circumstances. Though I guess this is just that nature vs. nurture debate again.

[/0]

When we see a young kid smoking or doing drugs, we blame their parents. But once upon a time, their parents were young. Perhaps they picked up their habits from their own parents or elsewhere, and are merely passing it on. Society as a whole seems to have a prejudice favouring kids, when in fact everyone is a victim of their own circumstance. Just because adults might be older doesn't mean they are capable of making socially acceptable decisions. Their decisions are based on the philosophies they developed as kids, and as people grow older these philosophies only become further ingrained. As a society we don't have a standard philosophy, and all our philosophies are subjective and relative. Nevertheless, people will often blindly stick to the philosophies they learnt as a child, and all thought exists only to exemplify everyone's individual philosophies. Rational thought does not exist because there is no objective standard. A striking example of this is religion (and I'm not trying saying it's a bad thing, it's just another philosophy, after all). Believers who were brought up with a religious philosophy as children will often retain them, and when an atheist debates a believer, he/she is not battling against the believer's rational mind, but against their philosophy. Conversely, a believer is not battling against an atheist's rational mind, but against their philosophy, which is a product of their upbringing.
tl;dr: Humans can't think, they only copy.

Now to the subject of discipline. If humans can't think, then nobody can be guilty... this is tricky. On the one hand we can pardon everyone who was 'born with it', 'had bad influences', or 'mental illness', and slide down the slippery slope to anarchy. Or, we can prosecute people according to the damage they inflict on others, rather than focusing on the offender themselves. Neither solution is fair, but at least in the second solution we can 'keep the peace' and hopefully slow the spread of the anti-social philosophies. We will never completely eradicate them however, as they are just part of human nature.

[Glockmeister]

First of all, Shinny, can you explain what 'proactive initiative' would entail?
My opinion is that some people can be born with mental, social, and physical deficiencies. This boy was born to be a delinquent, and rehabilitation would be very difficult to achieve. Yes his environment and socio-economic circumstances are a factor, but it has to be taken into consideration that not all pedophiles were sexually abused, not all murderers were abused, and not all thieves are poor.
I guess if I cared enough about this kid, I'd lock him to a bed to detox him of all the narcotics in his system, then send him to a juvenile detention centre until he was 18. At least this way he cannot do any more harm to himself and others than if he was on the outside.

And then what happens after he turns 18... there's a chance he'd turn out even worse.

u gotta give this boy a chance..  he'll learn one day.

But at the expense of how many people's lives, financial livelihood, etc.?

I'd like to think he's rehabilitable, but I doubt the state will be brave enough to take the pro-active action shinny mentioned. I don't think people are necessarily born delinquents. But some are born with genetically-defined social deficiencies which increase their chances of becoming someone like this boy.

I think saying that murderers, paedophiles etc. were born like that excuses them from their horrific crimes - saying that on some level they couldn't help what they were doing mitigates their liability. (Especially since criminal law accepts involuntariness as a full defence - i.e. all liability removed if you can prove your actions were involuntary.)

Environmental factors play a (very large) part too. In a lot of these cases, they grow up in socially/economically disadvantaged circumstances. Though I guess this is just that nature vs. nurture debate again.

If there are genetic factors involved in aggression, it'd probably a minor factor compared the environmental factors, such as perhaps, his brother. 

[periwinkle]

[quote author=Glockmeister link=topic=18114.msg184268#msg184268 date=1256285324
If there are genetic factors involved in aggression, it'd probably a minor factor compared the environmental factors, such as perhaps, his brother. 
[/quote]

 Absolutely Glockmeister, one could imagine many ways someone could reach that state by that age. Not all kids are learning piano at 5, immersion French at 8 and ballroom dancing at 11. He needs a secure environment where he can be helped in a variety of ways and monitored until he has spent a significant period of time not hurting/stealing from others.