Defining the ever changing face of Patriotism

[xXNovaxX]

The below article is one I saved a copy of from September 1st 2009.

I came across it in my drawer today and thought it summed up EXACTLY how I feel. This writer is fantastic, and it is people like these who stop me from giving up. I have bolded the great points he makes.

I'd like to hear your thoughts/comments.

NOTE: RED FONT= MY OPINION, do not confuse it with the journo

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/its-time-to-reclaim-patriotism-from-the-racist-narcissists-20090831-f58a.html

It's time to reclaim patriotism from the racist narcissists
TIM SOUTPHOMMASANE
September 1, 2009
NOT all that long ago, ''Aussie, Aussie, Aussie'' was just an innocuous, if inane, chant at sporting events. Commemoration of Anzac Day was greeted with indifference. And the idea of tattooing sunburnt flesh with the Southern Cross was, well, strange. Not today.

For many, this new patriotism is no more than an expression of chauvinism. Loving your country means beating your breast and declaring for all to hear: ''Straya - love it or leave it.''This point he makes is FANTASTIC. It is so true. People used to chant "aussie, aussie, aussie" in unison out of GOOD GESTURE, it used to be used in a POSITIVE way. Now, it is used IN SYNC with racism. Does the Australian Open (tennis) ring a bell? Does AFL, sport etc? Racists are increasingly using it to STIR TROUBLE, this is predominately evident in 16-20 year olds, and not so much adults who still use it in good will. Rat bag teenagers (yes the same ones who bully, do drugs and commit crime) are using it to ANGER "non whites" or "migrants". When I was in highschool, the "get out of our country" type people came on our last dya of school in tattoes, green and gold zinc, and singlets walking around STIRRING TROUBLE whislt chanting "aussie aussie aussie". It is disgusting how a phrase I once used in support of my country is now used as a derogatory term. It has been over 4 years since I ever chanted this term. I refuse to use it now.

Not just that, but believing that you can identify ''real'' Australians and, conversely, those who don't belong here. AGAIN, EXCELLENT point he makes. We ALL know people that identify others as "aussie" or "foreigner" In this day, teenagers and young adults see a "true blue" as person with BRITISH origin. If you are born HERE, but ur parents are FOREIGN, you are NOT treated the same by these racists.

Such patriotism is indeed the refuge of ratbags and racists. The mistake of the Australian liberal left has been to dismiss all invocations of national solidarity as dog-whistling. Better to avoid patriotism than to be tainted with the stain of jingo. Better to embrace a morally pure love of humanity - the cosmopolitan love of the stranger. But we do not live in a world of cosmopolitan purity. We continue to live in a world in which communities count, not least national ones. We address each other not in Esperanto, but in a national language. And we judge ourselves not according to abstract standards but to values moulded by national experience and bearing the imprint of national character.

We take our attachment to egalitarianism, mateship and the fair go seriously. Most of us have a warm affection for our country and its qualities.

Until recently, these feelings were largely consonant with the benign patriotism defended by George Orwell. Patriotism involved, as he argued, a ''devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people''.

This kind of patriotism - subtle and contained, defensive rather than aggressive - isn't about putting your love of country on conspicuous display.

Something happened during the Howard years. Patriotic kitsch became respectable. Australians who loved their country all of sudden felt the compulsion to win plaudits for doing so. They succumbed to crass sentimentalism.

And so, where once Australians cringed when Pauline Hanson draped herself in our flag, today thousands of young Australians do so while greeting dawn in the Dardanelles with a can of VB in hand, slurring the words to Waltzing Matilda.I was DISGUSTED when I read this point. I am not SURE whether people drink VB at Turkey during the Remembrance day, but in a GENERAL consensus, it is shameful how you drape OUR flag across your shoulder whilst BAGGING people, whilst PISSING YOURSELF WITH BEER, or whislt ATTACKING someone whilst in a "gang" does Cronulla riots ring a bell?  (btw this applies to BOTH sides)

The corruption of patriotism has got to the point where AFL coaches vapidly appeal to the spirit of Gallipoli to fire up their teams for ''battle'' in Anzac Day fixtures.

It is possible to regard such shifts in sensibility as the result of a vulgar narcissism that exists not just in Australia but in all Western societies. Patriotism has become just another symptom of people's dependence on an admiring audience, of their insatiable need to find emotional bonds with others in a world otherwise devoid of meaning.

There is a more telling tale, though, of progressive intellectual and political failure. Preferring the comfortable terrain of moral righteousness, the Australian left surrendered national values to reactionaries and racists in the culture wars.

John Howard was free to pervert egalitarianism, mateship and the fair go in pursuit of his warped view of Australian history. Patriotism, unsurprisingly, became the preserve of right-wing ideological zealots. A love of country meant the George Bush patriotism of fighting missionary wars in the Middle East.

EDIT: For some reason what I am about to TYPE below is not on the Age website, however it is ON the tangible article I  have in my hand, i think they edited it so that it's not included. If people do not believe that it's really there, I CAN scan the article. So point is, I am going to type it, so it may not "flow" with the article.

The point is that any authentic patriotism takes seriously ones national tradition. It is about knowing what is best and about your country, and demanding that it live up to the best of its tradition. When it falls short, one's patriotic obligation is to criticise ones country.Seriously, if this dude was an English student, A+++. Fantastic conclusion. If you read my POST above this article form that "illegal drugs" thread, you will see how I was UNABLE to criticise an aspect of our country without being abused. This applies to MANY OTHERS. It is so true, we need to wake up and see the state of our society is CRAP, we need to shout it out to bring reform and change in society (not government). Drugs, crime, rape, racism, immorality everything is so wrong atm and as soon as we are ALLOWED to voice criticism we can hope for a better future.

[slothpomba]

state of our society is CRAP

That is a hyperbolic piece of bullshit.
We're called the lucky country for a reason, try living in the Congo.

(the rest of your points I'm somewhat neutral on however)

[*ryan777*]

good point nova
as a "white" australian i have felt ashamed in thinking of using the "aussie, aussie, aussie" chant during sporting events in fear of being branded a racist, terrible how these perfectly innocent pieces of culture get hijacked by bogans who ruin it.

[*ryan777*]

state of our society is CRAP

We're called the lucky country for a reason, try living in the congo.

perhaps not crap, but society definatly seems to have gone downhill in some areas

[slothpomba]

There is about 192 countries in the world (Dont pull me out on this small semantic number) most of them are very bad places to live we live in one of the better countries (i would say we are within the top 10 places to live).

It's objective however - people have been saying since the dawn of cilivilization their society is declining. One mans decline is another renaissance.

[xXNovaxX]

state of our society is CRAP

That is a hyperbolic piece of bullshit.
We're called the lucky country for a reason, try living in the Congo.

(the rest of your points I'm somewhat neutral on however)

mmm, perhaps I wasn't clear, and was rather ambigious.

When I say society, I mean our MORALS, our BEHAVIOR, our ACTIONS
Drunken violence, escalating crime, drug busts, teenagers attacking 60+ year olds, more claims of animal cruelty (3 in the last 2 days that were on the news anyway).
I call that crap.

Instead if YOU absolutely have to comapre do it with countries like CANADA, or SWEDEN, or Switzerland, Norway, Finland, I view them as utopia. Very, very, very low crime rates, very cultured people, and u barely hear any bad stuff.

Just because we are one of the few, and the "lucky country" doesn't mean we cannot be any better. We are the "lucky country" because of high standards of living, and WEALTH, not because of the social  issues I have mentioned.

I don't care about wealth, that isn't improtant to me. I went to a poor country where I have family there, and I enjoyed it so much. The closeness of neighbors, the closeness of family it was a very tight nit community. But it was poor i.e. not classified as "lucky". I was able to walk the streets at 2am in CONFIDENCE. I would walk beneath balcony's of apartments and have RANDOMS say hello to me. I am not trying to call for Australia to become like this, for it never will. But that is not necessarily "bad". I am merely trying to point out the POSSIBILITIES.

Here, you hear of Indian students attacked, the city a no go zone by 9pm, gangs controlling train stations.

Pfft, regarding top 10 places to live, yes "Melbourne was the worlds most livable city" BAHAHA, overcrowded trains, street violence, rapidly rising rates of inflation, crime, teachers having sex with students every few weeks, underworld crime war, drugs......i don't take those surveys seriously because no company has the financial resources to conduct an accurate comparison. (and yes I acknowledge this has nothing to do with my point made, but nobody can really say "x" country is the top place to live in i.e. it's a generalization/ambiguous remark.

Why would you comapre Australia- a western country, with a poor developing country such as Congo? The two do not match at all.....one nations in a state of unrest and civil war with its people barely living over the age of 40, and ones a country with high economic growth and functioning institutions....

Kingpomba, I am not here to "compare" nations, this post was merely in reply to yours.

Ryan777 took the stance I was after, well "point of view" he knew where I was coming from. And no you do not have to agree with me, that's not why I used him as an example, but just don't ask me to compare because trust me there is a whole world out there you, me, and we are yet to experience.

And do not get me wrong, I am 100% grateful for the opportunities I and my family have been given, and the life I live. However I am merely trying to ensure future generations or our children can live a normal, safe life.

[slothpomba]

Note[Homicide Rates]:
Australia: 1.2
Canada: 1.8
Finland: 2.17
Switzerland: 2.26

Please note homicide rates have dropped 24% in the last 8 years in Australia, so our violent crime is certainly not getting worse.

Also, your statement that our morals are sliding is an irrelevant conclusion; Morals are subjective, according to your morality society is sliding but it may not be according to other peoples morals. Maybe its your grammar but i never compared Australia with America, i don't know where you are getting this from?

...generally difefrent issues based on terrorism, african-americans vs whites etc...

Also please note terrorism and racial conflicts exist in Australia as well, you sir are a moron.

As for your statement of them being cultured, you just are assuming they are "cultured", without much evidence, which is a very poor argument.
The reason you barely hear any bad stuff is because you dont live there man.... im sure if you lived there, they would have an equally alarmist evening news report.

The point of my Congo contrast was "if you think its bad here try somewhere else". Most of the world would kill to live in Australia (and we have high immigration) yet you seem to think we have it pretty bad. You need some perspective.

I also never mentioned wealth.

Name the poor country you went to, im sure they have a lot more worse societal issues than we do.

Your points are moot, be grateful for the wonderful country we are in. (dont attack such statements like this on semantics)

[xXNovaxX]

If you would re visit my post I EDITED it after mis-read your post, the USA was removed  BEFORE u posted your reply.

There is also no need to dub me a moron, I am not attacking anybody or you, just those who cause social decline, if you are offended in me targeting them then that is a whole new issue.

 
http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t050417.html
Australia's high crime rates prompt travel warning

SYDNEY, Australia (17 Apr 2005) -- Australia's high crime rates have prompted Japan to issue a travel advisory warning tourists to beware of Aussie thieves.

Due to Australia's extremely high rate of theft and muggings, Japan's Foreign Ministry has warned tourists to Australia's Gold Coast region not to leave valuables in locked hotel rooms and "to keep a tight grip on hand and shoulder bags".

I am not speaking about MURDER, I am speaking of drugs, and ASSAULT, if you look at those figures and listen to the news each day you will see a rather difefrent story.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world-news/sexual-assaults-in-australia-on-the-rise-during-spring-summer_100174032.html
Melbourne, Apr 1 (ANI): Sexual assaults in Australia have reportedly risen by more than 50 per cent since the mid-1990s,

A study carried out by the Australian Institute of Criminology shows that the incidents of sexual assault increased by five per cent a year, on average, between 1995 and 2007.


http://www.news.com.au/national/huge-rise-in-assault-drugs-at-schools/story-e6frfkvr-1225807362951
More than 109 students were caught bringing firearms, knives and other weapons to school in the first two terms of this year - up 300 per cent compared to the same period five years ago.

You seem to be leaving out every other incident of "social decay" that I mentioned. Murder was NEVER explicitly mentioned by me and so I have nothing to answer for. I am not interested in trying to find "the most articles" which proves my point or reject your's, you are missing the intention/purpose of the thread.


The stuff I am talking about is something which cannot be majored, it is almost "intangible". I am basing it on what I see aorund me, what friends say to me, and what I am increasingly hearing on the news. Statistics cannot pin point this.

In regards to the country I went to that is not important, I KNOW it has social issues, but EVERY country does. I am merely speaking about THIS country because this is the one Im interested in, since I live HERE.

Dam me for trying to IMPROVE it.

[ReVeL]

The corruption of patriotism has got to the point where AFL coaches vapidly appeal to the spirit of Gallipoli to fire up their teams for ''battle'' in Anzac Day fixtures.

I honestly don't see the problem with this. I love my footy and this is one of the great matches of the year. How is this corruption? It's not like the coaches are saying "cmon get fired up pretend their foreigners lets go kill em". They're using the insipiration of the Australian soldiers that displayed absolutely amazing courage in the face of certain death.

You bolded it, so if you wouldn't mind explaining?

[slothpomba]

[Note:I take time in writing my arguments and it actually took me around 20-30 minutes to write/get all the numbers at the time i orginally read it america was still in there.]

Murder wasn't mentioned by you but it is a violent crime like you mentioned, it's probably the worst. Also note you never explicitly mentioned sexual assault or theft but you seem to be using those now.

It's your perception, i live in one of "the most dangerous suburbs" in melbournes west, someone was hacked with a machete literally 100m from my house, theres shootings and murders all the time around here but i still dont have the same perception as you. Its objective, you and your friends views, same with mine.

Im sick of arguing with you and your "omg!! everything is so bad..." things have always been like this. If you really dont like it that much id be happy to pay for your plane ticket out of this country.

[ReVeL]

I pretty much agree with kingpomba. You seem to be exaggerating things to a ridiculous degree and implying everythings getting bad, and fast. No doubt there's areas of concern. Don't think anyone will deny that. But this is a truly great country, and you're making it out to be in a state of crisis.

For the record, I'm semi-regularly in the city after 2am and I rarely have felt threatened.

Your comparisons to other countries like Sweden and Norway is pretty weak, and lacks hard evidence. Did it ever occur to you that you don't hear about assaults/drug busts etc. because you're not exposed to their media?

[slothpomba]

Exactly the points im trying to make clear to everyone. I live *near* a couple rough areas - St.albans (stab albans for the locals) for example is pretty bad but id have no qualms walking through there at night and i often do walk home from the train-station after 9pm when there are no more buses.

[xXNovaxX]

The corruption of patriotism has got to the point where AFL coaches vapidly appeal to the spirit of Gallipoli to fire up their teams for ''battle'' in Anzac Day fixtures.

I honestly don't see the problem with this. I love my footy and this is one of the great matches of the year. How is this corruption? It's not like the coaches are saying "cmon get fired up pretend their foreigners lets go kill em". They're using the insipiration of the Australian soldiers that displayed absolutely amazing courage in the face of certain death.

You bolded it, so if you wouldn't mind explaining?

Well I think the way I saw it was I can understand where he is coming from.

Considering these are fallen soldiers who have died in battle, shouldn't it be more of a "sacred" (i can't think of the right word) topic? Not something football coaches or ANYBODY for that matter use whenever they want?

I didn't add any red comments to it because I don't see it as a MAJOR problem, like it doesn't need to be "changed" or it shouldn't be something we are "ashamed of".

All I am saying, traditionally, the dead is not something you talk about. But here you have coaches care-free using it over a game...

@pomba, hmm guess it is objective. I mentioned sexual assault as a rebuke to you mentioning something I didn't mention (being murder).

Point I am trying to make is, why do you accept it? Why are you fine with it? Yes I know YOU are fine with it but I just don't understand why you accept it, and BLAST people like me who are trying to bring ATTENTION to it.

Like I have said in my previous post, I am not here to COMPARE, my comparison to Norway etc  was merely to bring to light Pombas WEAK comparison to Congo. I did not elaborate just as he did not elaborate.

In regards to it being in a state of crisis. I don't know exactly how far or willing I am to agree or disagree. For as I acknowledge and as Collin has pointed out in a previous thread it could be PERCEPTION and a heavy focus by the News which has swayed my opinion.

Hmm in regards to your plane ticket offer all i can say, you are proving my point
No matter how much I have stressed "I am grateful for being here". No matter how much I understand we are a lot better off than other countries, and no matter how long I have lived here doesn't really equate to much ey?

You seem to be the kind of people I target, hence your arrogant reply.

You fail to understand others, which oppresses change for the better in society. People are trying to voice opinions, and all you have to offer is a "plane ticket". OOO, don't you worry, I can pay for my own

Because I know you are the minority, the others I have spoken to, and even people on this forum such as ryan, such as  such as stonecold and zachcharge, such as Quantam are all able to empathize.

[ReVeL]

Yeah you're right, how dare we honour those who gave their lives to make our nation free. We should get that sorted right out. Did you consider that football is something that brings (thousands maybe millions of) people together, and so it is a perfect medium to remind people of our fallen soldiers.

Ok, read this carefully. I don't think anyones suggesting we should "accept" rising sexual assault rates or anything like that, or that there aren't problems with violence in certain areas. Yes, it is a problem and when I last checked it's pretty high up there in the list of priorities for the government right now. Newsflash: Society has and always will have problems. People getting drunk and getting carried away is nothing new, I know I'm definately guilty of this and most people are.

You seem to have linked these problems to corrupt patriotism, which is really clutching at straws. I'm not "blasting" you for raising these issues in society, but I disagree with what you're labelling as the source.

[*ryan777*]

btw kingpomba i live in the western suburbs too, but it almost sounds like ur saying that u dont care about the crimes that happen day in day out around here, what if tomorrow its you or your family being the victim?
the only way to "clean up" our otherwise great country is to acutally say/do something about it and get the ball rolling, just like nova and others like him are doing, great societies have great people