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May 22, 2025, 04:10:20 am

Author Topic: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic  (Read 8194 times)  Share 

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lolbox

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2010, 11:26:23 pm »
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However, singling out Israel for criticism, while ignoring worse cases elsewhere, is absolutely 100% anti-semitism, and anyone who denies that is deluding themselves.

"But mommy, he started it." Just because there are worse cases does not excuse anything.

I didn't say it does. You're putting words into my mouth and I don't appreciate it. All I said was, singling out Israel for criticism out of all possible countries who may be deserving of it, is a result of anti-semitism.
As opposed to singling out Palestine which is acceptable...

You can point the finger all you want. I’m not going to do that. In summary, theres two different sides to the story and a deep history in this. Both sides have suffered casualties. If it were an ideal world the conflict would just stop, but its not and it won’t.

Yitzi_K

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2010, 11:34:54 pm »
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However, singling out Israel for criticism, while ignoring worse cases elsewhere, is absolutely 100% anti-semitism, and anyone who denies that is deluding themselves.

"But mommy, he started it." Just because there are worse cases does not excuse anything.

I didn't say it does. You're putting words into my mouth and I don't appreciate it. All I said was, singling out Israel for criticism out of all possible countries who may be deserving of it, is a result of anti-semitism.
As opposed to singling out Palestine which is acceptable...

You can point the finger all you want. I’m not going to do that. In summary, theres two different sides to the story and a deep history in this. Both sides have suffered casualties. If it were an ideal world the conflict would just stop, but its not and it won’t.

Firstly: There is no such state as 'Palestine'.

Secondly: When I say singling out, I mean in a wider context, ie singling out Israeli killing of civilians but ignoring the killing of civilians by other countries. (America killed a few this week, did you see any front-page headlines?)

And I don't single out 'palestine'. I admit that Israel has committed wrongs, albeit nowhere near as much. I also admit that every other country in the world has also done things they shouldn't have.

You're right, in an ideal world the conflict would stop. But in the words of Binyamin Netenyahu: ‘If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel’
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ninwa

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2010, 12:04:57 am »
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However, singling out Israel for criticism, while ignoring worse cases elsewhere, is absolutely 100% anti-semitism, and anyone who denies that is deluding themselves.

I single China out for criticism of its censorship policies because I know the specifics of that country the best, does that make me anti-Chinese?

Well... yes, to a point.

but I'm talking more about newspapers and governments and the UN in particular, all of whom know plenty about the specifics of every country, yet single out Israel for criticism. I can bring you dozens, if not hundreds, of examples of this, if you so wish.

Plenty of criticism about China too, even though there's plenty of other countries with just as many human rights abuses. Does that make them wrong? No.

I love my country and I certainly do not hate my own race. But I'm not so blinded by rose goggles that I don't see the horrors the Chinese government is capable of perpetrating. And if disproportionate focus upon those abuses ends up changing their ways, then focus away.
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lolbox

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2010, 08:18:31 am »
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However, singling out Israel for criticism, while ignoring worse cases elsewhere, is absolutely 100% anti-semitism, and anyone who denies that is deluding themselves.

"But mommy, he started it." Just because there are worse cases does not excuse anything.

I didn't say it does. You're putting words into my mouth and I don't appreciate it. All I said was, singling out Israel for criticism out of all possible countries who may be deserving of it, is a result of anti-semitism.
As opposed to singling out Palestine which is acceptable...

You can point the finger all you want. I’m not going to do that. In summary, theres two different sides to the story and a deep history in this. Both sides have suffered casualties. If it were an ideal world the conflict would just stop, but its not and it won’t.

Firstly: There is no such state as 'Palestine'.

Secondly: When I say singling out, I mean in a wider context, ie singling out Israeli killing of civilians but ignoring the killing of civilians by other countries. (America killed a few this week, did you see any front-page headlines?)

And I don't single out 'palestine'. I admit that Israel has committed wrongs, albeit nowhere near as much. I also admit that every other country in the world has also done things they shouldn't have.

You're right, in an ideal world the conflict would stop. But in the words of Binyamin Netenyahu: ‘If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel’

Firstly, most of the countries of the world do actually recognise Palestine as a state. And how is this in anyway relevant to what we were talking about. I never  mentioned anything about it, I'm stumped to the reason you'd bring that up (the only explanation I can come up with is that you're trying to degrade Palestine as much as you can and just thought that was another point to bring up)

Secondly, your view that Israel is the only nation being singled out... pfft. Thats a ridiculous view. Whenever a country does something controversial they are singled out. Are you kidding about America not being at the forefront of media or being 'singled out'? They have been blatantly blasted by many for there actions in Iraq and they've also been praised for there actions. Same goes for Israel bud, they have there supporters (you, obviously), but they will also get critisized. Same again with Palestine.

'Israel has committed wrongs' - correct, and so have Palestine
'Albeit nowhere near as much as Palestine' - Well thats your personal opinion, but in the past 5 years atleast the Palestinian casualties have exceeded those of Israel by over 1000%

 
Look there are two very different and complicated sides to the story. According to my understanding, after WW2, the Europeans promised and the UN voted for the partition of Palestine into two different states (one being the creation of a Jewish state: Israel). Obviously the arabs weren't very happy, many were pushed aside for Israel, but the Israeli's had definitely had there fair share of suffering during WW2. Thus all the civil wars, blah blah blah. But in summary that's why Palestine won't ever stop fighting. Imagine if the leaders of the world decided to take some land from Australia and allocate it to another nation, forcing Australians to relocate. We would no doubt fight for our land back, and it would be easier said then done saying something like "Yea Australia we've taken your land, we know you're upset but if you just stop fighting for it back then the violence will stop".  Its not a very credible thing to say because we obviously won't stop fighting.

Believe me I'm not trying to pick sides. It may seem, by the way I've explained things here, that I've sided with Palestine but I am well and truly on the fence. I understand what they went through in WW2 was very horrific, perhaps the worst treatment of humans of all time, and that they too had there land stripped from them a few thousand years ago, but right now I'm just hoping, someday, a peace agreement will be somehow reached but like I said before, given the deep roots of this conflict I guess thats just not very likely.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 08:32:00 am by lolbox »

Yitzi_K

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2010, 07:57:53 pm »
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Your history is actually incorrect. In 1917, way before WW2, the British, who had a mandate over the entire area at the time, issued the Balfour Declaration, which was a promise to recreate a Jewish state in their homeland. In 1947, this was formalised by the UN, who offered a partition plan. It is worth noting that under the terms of that proposal, Israel would be far, far smaller than it ever was, and there would have been a palestinian state in much of the area now known as Israel. But despite this, the Arabs rejected the plan, and ever since, the majority of the Arab world has refused to accept the existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East.

Your analogy about Australia is also incorrect, as the palestinians never, ever, had sovereignty over any part of that land.

About the singling out issue: This week, Israel killed nine armed combatants, and it makes headlines and lead news around the world for three days running. Last week, America killed a family of civilians, and it just about made the news as a small reference in part of a larger story. I could bring you countless other examples. 
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Mao

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2010, 08:01:27 pm »
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Your analogy about Australia is also incorrect, as the palestinians never, ever, had sovereignty over any part of that land.

Reasons?
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ninwa

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2010, 09:30:29 pm »
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About the singling out issue: This week, Israel killed nine armed combatants, and it makes headlines and lead news around the world for three days running. Last week, America killed a family of civilians, and it just about made the news as a small reference in part of a larger story. I could bring you countless other examples. 

doesn't change what Israel did
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Yitzi_K

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2010, 10:08:15 pm »
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Your analogy about Australia is also incorrect, as the palestinians never, ever, had sovereignty over any part of that land.

Reasons?

I don't understand, reasons for what? What I said is true, never in history has there ever been a state for palestinians, in the Middle East or anywhere else. That's because the palestinian nation is a brand new creation, born in the 1950s out of hate for Israel. If you don't believe that coming from me, perhaps you'll believe it coming from Zahir Muhsein, a senior member of the Palestinian Liberation Organisation:

Quote
The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct “Palestinian people” to oppose Zionism.

‘For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.


About the singling out issue: This week, Israel killed nine armed combatants, and it makes headlines and lead news around the world for three days running. Last week, America killed a family of civilians, and it just about made the news as a small reference in part of a larger story. I could bring you countless other examples.  

doesn't change what Israel did

You're right, but I see no problem with the killing of armed combatants, with links to terrorist organisations, who instigated a combat situation against a military force, such as this was.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 10:11:38 pm by Yitzi_K »
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TrueLight

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2010, 10:32:25 pm »
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these articles are interesting

How Sharon and the Likud Party nurtured the rise of Hamas and benefit from its terrorism
http://www.mediamonitors.net/hanania46.html

America's Hidden Role in Hamas's Rise to Power
http://www.alternet.org/world/116855/america's_hidden_role_in_hamas's_rise_to_power/?page=entire

Israel and Palestine: A Brief History
http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm

i hope this thread doesn't turn into something like this thread
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,9385.0.html

Opinion from both a palestinian and israeli
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2n8bFMUeUc&feature=PlayList&p=C551BED4AC1707A6&playnext_from=PL
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 01:13:37 am by TrueLight »
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cleo_xo

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2010, 10:38:35 pm »
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to be honest i find a discussion on this topic pointless because no matter what the other side says it's not going to change your original opinion, obviously jews are gonna believe that this is their land and palestine doesn't exist likewise arabs are gonna believe that this is their land and the jews stole it, so what exactly is the point to this whole conversation it's not going to come to and end just like i personally believe the war between the arabs and jews will never end.

just my 2 cents :D

Yitzi_K

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2010, 10:40:58 pm »
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this article is interesting

How Sharon and the Likud Party nurtured the rise of Hamas and benefit from its terrorism
http://www.mediamonitors.net/hanania46.html


That article may be interesting, but it's also utter nonsense
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Yitzi_K

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2010, 10:41:55 pm »
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to be honest i find a discussion on this topic pointless because no matter what the other side says it's not going to change your original opinion, obviously jews are gonna believe that this is their land and palestine doesn't exist likewise arabs are gonna believe that this is their land and the jews stole it, so what exactly is the point to this whole conversation it's not going to come to and end just like i personally believe the war between the arabs and jews will never end.

just my 2 cents :D

It's important to stand up for the truth and that which is right, regardless of the outcome.
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TrueLight

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2010, 10:56:24 pm »
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>.<
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Cthulhu

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2010, 11:04:38 pm »
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I believe Goliath was a Palestinian king back in "bible" times was he not? and then the cruel Israelite king David slaughtered him mercilessly.

Edit: Just trollin. I know Goliath was really the first true king of Israel.

Edit2: Just so I can contribute. Have a serious business link
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 11:18:16 pm by Cthulhu »

cleo_xo

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Re: Being anti-Israel is not being Anti-semitic
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2010, 11:18:57 pm »
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to be honest i find a discussion on this topic pointless because no matter what the other side says it's not going to change your original opinion, obviously jews are gonna believe that this is their land and palestine doesn't exist likewise arabs are gonna believe that this is their land and the jews stole it, so what exactly is the point to this whole conversation it's not going to come to and end just like i personally believe the war between the arabs and jews will never end.

just my 2 cents :D

It's important to stand up for the truth and that which is right, regardless of the outcome.

well if anyone asked me i would express my personal opinions and beliefs but why should i waste my time trying to change people who will never change?