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May 22, 2025, 05:54:43 am

Author Topic: Rudd v. Gillard  (Read 7621 times)  Share 

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ninwa

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2010, 07:43:28 pm »
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it won't... actually things might get passed more easily perhaps because all the focus will be on julia gillard the person and not on the policies and so things will get worse for australia ... yay wow $87,645,780,500 in debt ... last month it was around $80,000,000,500

What kinds of "things"? Are you suggesting everything the Opposition has rejected in parliament so far (and there's been a LOT) will now be accepted by them... because Julia Gillard is now PM?
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lolbox

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2010, 08:10:19 pm »
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I don't see how things will get worse. The upcoming election will ensure both the Labor and Liberal party will stay on the fence on controversial issues, not wanting to sway voters away.

TrueLight

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2010, 08:14:39 pm »
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hm im not sure i said perhaps... just more legislation but ur right the opposition can still block it

but i predict the labor government will win the next election, thats my hunch.
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Visionz

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2010, 08:19:35 pm »
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im not trolling i just think that a female PM is a bad image. its doesnt adequately represent our national value of chauvinism

Cthulhu

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2010, 08:29:19 pm »
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Totally posted this on facebook earlier and I'm so proud of it I'm going to post it again
Quote from: Cthulhu
Ladies and gentlemen, The Prime Menstruater of Australia: Julia Gillard.
I should be the John Stewart of Australia.

mojomojo

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2010, 08:49:58 pm »
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Sorry guys, i don't really pay much attention to the politics.
Therefore i'm just gonna blindly support Kevin Rudd as he can speak Chinese.
It's all over now..

naved_s9994

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2010, 09:14:01 pm »
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I think that it was wrong to just kick Kevin out, despite him being K.Rude,
because yes, he was pissing them off and yes he was decreasing in the polls,
however infront of Tony, anyone will win in the current day!

I dont like this move - also I respect K.Rudd's courageous act of coming back
to question time, and sitting down. Thats a mighty courageous thing to do!

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TrueTears

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2010, 09:22:14 pm »
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Sorry guys, i don't really pay much attention to the politics.
Therefore i'm just gonna blindly support Kevin Rudd as he can speak Chinese.
HAHAHA EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS!
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Cthulhu

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2010, 09:26:43 pm »
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I think that it was wrong to just kick Kevin out, despite him being K.Rude,
because yes, he was pissing them off and yes he was decreasing in the polls,
however infront of Tony, anyone will win in the current day!

I dont like this move - also I respect K.Rudd's courageous act of coming back
to question time, and sitting down. Thats a mighty courageous thing to do!

naved_s9994
He just wanted to watch someone else get yelled at :P

Noblesse

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2010, 10:00:41 pm »
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Julia Gillard got her law degree from the University of Melbourne.

I blame the Melbourne Model.

Mao

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2010, 12:43:34 am »
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im not trolling i just think that a female PM is a bad image. its doesnt adequately represent our national value of chauvinism

I lol'd.



I don't think Labor would be ALL that much better with Gillard as PM. :-\

it won't... actually things might get passed more easily perhaps because all the focus will be on julia gillard the person and not on the policies and so things will get worse for australia ... yay wow $87,645,780,500 in debt ... last month it was around $80,000,000,500

That $7.6bn is probably from all the new reforms coming in, like the new maternity leave and such. Whilst the intentions of the government is good, I am not a huge fan of communism/socialism/anti-'rich-get-richer-poor-get-poorer'-ism. We've been through the whole 'take from the rich and give to the poor', which generally reduces to 'take from the rich and get poorly managed by the poor', which then just end up being 'take from the rich and everyone get poor, but at least we're all in it together'.

Whilst the prospect of a few extra billions from the mining sector is promising (taking ~$12bn from the mining sector), why can't they control themselves from reforming everything when they have no money in their pockets? How about conservatively manage the country and let the money come in by its own accord?

Oh wait, did I just say 'conservative' and 'Labor' in the same paragraph? Why does liberal have to have a religious nut as the leader? I want Howard and Costello back. They weren't stupid enough to put a 58% tax on the nation's economic backbone.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 12:46:14 am by Mao »
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EvangelionZeta

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2010, 01:17:50 am »
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im not trolling i just think that a female PM is a bad image. its doesnt adequately represent our national value of chauvinism

I lol'd.



I don't think Labor would be ALL that much better with Gillard as PM. :-\

it won't... actually things might get passed more easily perhaps because all the focus will be on julia gillard the person and not on the policies and so things will get worse for australia ... yay wow $87,645,780,500 in debt ... last month it was around $80,000,000,500

That $7.6bn is probably from all the new reforms coming in, like the new maternity leave and such. Whilst the intentions of the government is good, I am not a huge fan of communism/socialism/anti-'rich-get-richer-poor-get-poorer'-ism. We've been through the whole 'take from the rich and give to the poor', which generally reduces to 'take from the rich and get poorly managed by the poor', which then just end up being 'take from the rich and everyone get poor, but at least we're all in it together'.

Whilst the prospect of a few extra billions from the mining sector is promising (taking ~$12bn from the mining sector), why can't they control themselves from reforming everything when they have no money in their pockets? How about conservatively manage the country and let the money come in by its own accord?

Oh wait, did I just say 'conservative' and 'Labor' in the same paragraph? Why does liberal have to have a religious nut as the leader? I want Howard and Costello back. They weren't stupid enough to put a 58% tax on the nation's economic backbone.

I'm actually curious about your rationale with the whole "take from the rich and get poorly managed by the poor" perspective on the tax's effects.  What examples are there of it going badly previously (I'm actually clueless :p)?
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Visionz

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2010, 04:48:42 pm »
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they should let the miners run the country. they know how to make something successful. although then it would turn into america and healthcare would probably be abolished aswell as government support for anything.


Mao

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #43 on: June 27, 2010, 01:52:35 am »
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Disclaimer: the following opinion is personal speculation, not backed by any evidence, but it makes sense. Unless you can give good logic (not "bs that's bigoted as hell") to convince me otherwise, I am going to hold the same opinion without justification.

@EvangelionZeta, I believe the separation of rich and poor is similar to the natural selection, but on a social and intellectual level. Many people believe in the ideal of equality, I don't. Some people are naturally more 'resourceful' than others, and are able to gather greater income no matter how rich or poor they are at the time. Some people are naturally more 'conservative', and are able to save a fair money no matter how rich or poor they are at the time. Some people are naturally less 'money minded' and often end up spending more than they can afford. On the assumption that we don't force the latter group into classes and educate them about how to use their money, they will poorly manage handouts. [I am against government handouts, especially Centerlink bonus payments. My housemate, for example, is a compulsive spender, he can barely keep up with rent, but as soon as centerlink trickle some money down (read: my tax), half of it goes in weed, alcohol and lingerie for his girlfriend].

I am also against high industry taxes, i.e. taking money out of corporations and then redirected by the government. For people who's been here for too long, you might remember Brendan, he made a good point that when spending other people's money [tax] on other people [tax payers], you don't care about quality or price. So instead of shuffling money out of the corporations and dumping it in where the Govt see fit [where people whinge the most], my ideal is to lower taxes and raise wages. Let people decide for themselves, and you'll see that people who can manage money will do better than before, people who can't manage money will pour that extra income straight back into the economy, into the pockets of people who can, voila, natural selection.

TL;DR, the summary is I don't like taxes, I like removing safety labels on things as much as possible [not deliberately hurting], and let natural selection do its job.
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TrueLight

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Re: Rudd v. Gillard
« Reply #44 on: June 27, 2010, 03:21:23 am »
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Rudd and Gillard in the WSJ

Written by Sinclair Davidson
June 26th, 2010

"On Rudd (subscription required)

Mr. Rudd’s key political insight was that Australians liked the economic prosperity that more than two decades of continuous liberalization ushered in. That thinking was in the tradition of former Labor leaders Bob Hawke and Paul Keating, who opened the Lucky Country’s economy to the rest of the world starting in the early 1980s. But voters judged that other Labor leaders, like Mark Latham, posed a threat to that prosperity, and the party lost four successive elections.

So Labor turned to Mr. Rudd, a wonky former bureaucrat who didn’t grow up in the union movement. On the campaign trail, he called himself a “fiscal conservative” while nodding to the Labor base by promising to make the workplace “fairer.” He also adopted conservative positions on immigration and the war on terror. After 11 1/2 years of Liberal Party rule, that platform reassured voters who wanted a fresh face in the Lodge.

Once in office, however, Mr. Rudd, Ms. Gillard and Treasurer Wayne Swan embarked on a left-wing agenda unseen since the 1970s. With U.S. President Barack Obama’s Keynesian spending providing intellectual cover, Labor took Australia from an A$19.7 billion ($17.2 billion in today’s dollars) surplus to an A$32.1 billion deficit in a single year in the name of “stimulus” — even though the country was well insulated from the global financial crisis.

Meanwhile, the party’s left, led by Ms. Gillard, embarked on a crusade to resurrect the ebbing union movement. The government revoked flexible individual work contracts, allowed unions greater access to workplaces, and gave more power to a central commission to set wages. These policies attracted little national attention because they were structured to take effect in phases over several years.

Mr. Rudd would have done more economic damage if he could have. Following through on a campaign promise to fight global warming — which he dubbed “the great moral challenge of our generation” — he proposed a cap-and-trade scheme which would have taxed every corner of the economy. That was a step too far for moderates in the Senate, which rejected it twice. Then the bottom fell out of the global-warming movement in Copenhagen, and Mr. Rudd shelved the legislation.

The tipping point came earlier this year when Mr. Rudd proposed a 40% tax on the mining industry to plug the deficit hole that he and his party had created. Billions of dollars of investment were put on hold, and corporate Australia went into active opposition. Mr. Rudd’s popularity plummeted so far, so fast, that the Liberals pulled even with Labor.
On Gillard (by Janet Albrechtsen) (subscription required)

Cleverly too, Australia’s 27th prime minister implicitly acknowledged her own complicity in some of her predecessor’s mistakes. “I know the Rudd government did not do all it said it would do. And at times, it went off track.” The problem is the severity of those mistakes, for which words alone will not get her off the hook in the public’s eye. As a member of Mr. Rudd’s inner policy circle, she was particularly instrumental in crafting the unpopular mining profits tax, which Australians understand would hit one of their most important industries. But she does benefit from not having been the chief public face of those mistakes in the way Mr. Rudd as prime minister was. That might give her just enough room to gracefully pivot now that she’s seen what became of Mr. Rudd.

This will not be easy. Reworking or, better yet, repudiating that mining tax will leave a large budget hole for which Ms. Gillard herself will have been partially responsible. For instance, despite her positives as an education minister, she also oversaw an irresponsible “stimulus” spending binge of A$16.2 billion ($14 billion) in the country’s schools, something for which the Rudd government took a lot of flak. But if she has truly seen the light on the virtues of more moderate governance, she has a better shot at making the change than she would have before.

No one should underestimate Ms Gillard. Nor should they underestimate Australian voters. While the inner-city crowds of Canberra, Sydney and Melbourne will crow about gender as the defining, historic issue at the next election, many Australians are right to be suspicious of any candidate, man or woman, who once hailed from the far-left side of politics. Australians are undoubtedly ready for a female prime minister. Whether they’re ready for Ms. Gillard to be their prime minister will be a different question.
Janet Albrechtsen also had a feature in the Australian on Gillard.

Gillard, as deputy prime minister and a member of Rudd’s gang of four, played a central role in the Rudd fiasco. While, she has acknowledged the mistakes, there’s no getting away from the fact she is part of the overspending incompetence of the school buildings program, the debacle of the delay of the emissions trading system and the mining tax miscalculation. While she has opened the door to negotiations with the mining industry, she must explain a budget black hole if she changes the mining tax. While she talks now about strong border control, as opposition immigration spokeswoman in 2004 Gillard road-tested a soft-touch immigration policy that was rejected by the hard heads in Labor.

She was also part of the Latham fiasco. When Mark Latham left, Gillard described his departure as a “real vacuum on Australia’s political stage”. Her fingerprints were on the MedicareGold policy. In other words, Gillard is yet to prove herself on the policy and political judgment fronts.
The biggest political plus Gillard has is that men beating up on women looks bad in politics and everywhere else too. So the Liberals going in hard could quickly degenerate into allegations on bullying. The leader writer at the WSJ and Albrechtsen don’t face that problem. How the Liberals manage that issue will determine the outcome of the coming election."

http://catallaxyfiles.com/2010/06/26/rudd-and-gillard-in-the-wsj/
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Adolf Hitler

"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just