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May 20, 2025, 11:49:21 pm

Author Topic: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL  (Read 30666 times)  Share 

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Eriny

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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2010, 11:10:34 pm »
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If Abbott wins, I may have to emigrate.

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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #76 on: August 01, 2010, 11:22:01 pm »
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If Abbott wins, I may have to emigrate.
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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #78 on: August 02, 2010, 09:03:04 pm »
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Yeah, but in the case of Gillard, I think I could at least wait out a few years and see how they go.

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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #79 on: August 03, 2010, 12:57:18 am »
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You're probably should be starting to pack your bag, given the latest opinion poll.
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kamil9876

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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #80 on: August 03, 2010, 02:49:58 pm »
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I know nothing about Politics, but unfortunately I have to vote. So which of the two would give more money to the mathematical departments, associations etc. ? thx
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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #81 on: August 03, 2010, 04:17:42 pm »
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Figureheads aside, can someone please explain to me what is so bad about Abbott's policies?
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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #82 on: August 03, 2010, 04:20:26 pm »
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Figureheads aside, can someone please explain to me what is so bad about Abbott's policies?

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Eriny

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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #83 on: August 03, 2010, 11:15:57 pm »
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Okay, I guess the main thing I hate about Tony Abbott is his personality. But I'd say his failure at climate change policy is probably the Liberal Party's worst policy. Alongside with increasing business tax as a better alternative to the mining tax. Uh, WTF? I disagree also with the abandonment of the laptops to school kids. I'm trying to look up more, but it's really difficult, on the website they say things like 'we're going to restore budget surplus in 3 years' without actually telling people HOW they're going to find the money when over $6 billion has been committed to stuff already, and the election is still weeks away.

For full disclosure, I should note that Labor's Mental Health policy is a lot worse than the Liberals one though.

Don't get me wrong, they're both terrible (especially on immigration policy, which is disgusting on both sides), but of the two, Tony Abbott is significantly worse. And yes, that's partly because I don't like him personally (but I swear, only partly!).


enwiabe

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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #85 on: August 04, 2010, 12:09:31 am »
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Figureheads aside, can someone please explain to me what is so bad about Abbott's policies?

Well that's exactly it. There are precious few. We'd love some policies to analyse, but the entire Liberal campaign thus far has been "attack Labor at all costs whilst contributing nothing of worth ourselves"

Pathetic

Mao

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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #86 on: August 04, 2010, 12:22:15 am »
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@Eriny

I have to attempt to disagree, please point out where I am mislead, but I am not a fan of labor's excessive spending. As good as money in my pocket sounds, I prefer a strong economy, strong job market and high standard of living much more than the economy going backwards.

Quote
I'm trying to look up more, but it's really difficult, on the website they say things like 'we're going to restore budget surplus in 3 years' without actually telling people HOW they're going to find the money when over $6 billion has been committed to stuff already, and the election is still weeks away.
Firstly, from what I can find, the government has a revenue in excess of 300 billion every year. $6bn is not a huge portion of that (5%), and a budge surplus can be easily achieved by SAVING elsewhere. From my understanding, budge surplus and deficit is not dependent on past year's budge (at least not directly), and it's not a running total. You can see from the previous link that labour has managed to overspend 25.6bn and 48.9bn in the past two financial years. Liberal is willing to stop spending money on non-essential crap (such as the NBN and the laptop scheme, which I will talk about later), and save money so we can start paying the debt already. If anything, that's a brilliant idea. In the meanwhile, labor is still trying to win votes by committing more money to get marginal votes off people who drive old cars, families with 16-18 year olds (FTB increase). It's a tried and true method though, more spending = more vote.

Not sure where you are getting "they are increasing business tax", because this says they are decreasing business tax from 30% to 28.5%.

As for climate change, if you are still thinking a carbon-trading scheme, you really should understand that the power generation plants in Victoria is incapable of being that clean from an engineering perspective (the cost will outweigh the benefits by much), and putting a trading scheme on it will simply mean our electricity bill will increase, so the government might as well just tax us normal citizens for it. What we really need is to decommission the dirty power plants and build new ones, but generally new ones take up to 10 years to build, and old ones have contracts that the government can't pull out of without going out of pocket (read: excessive waste of money). So I'm not sure how the Greens or any other 'environmentally conscious' party plan to reduce carbon emission immediately, because the coal fire stations (owned by overseas companies, of course) will simply tell the Government to piss off, because the govt is these companies' bitch.

On the topic of immigration policy, I agree completely with stopping the boats. These aren't refugee seekers, they aren't pursued by terrorists who are going to kill them (if they are, I'm sure US would have invaded that country already). They are illegal immigrants who want to jump the queue, and bypass the criteria. As a migrant, I'm disgusted, and as a citizen, I say a fair go for everyone IS the bottom line, so get back to the back of the queue, and if you don't want to wait back in your country, you can wait outside my door.

On the topic of the laptop policy, let me start by saying it's been FOUR YEARS, and I haven't seen any laptops been freely given out in Victoria. I hear in NSW they had some, but they weren't exactly free either. The only ones I've heard of in Victoria are the ones where students are forced to buy the laptops at ridiculous prices (some 200% of retail prices, without administrative access to the computer), in the name of maintaining a good school network. Network admins don't get paid that much, the price students pay for that abomination of a laptop covers twice if not thrice the cost dept of education would purchase them at, so where is that money going into? Network maintenance? Communication companies would be laughing with their new-found riches, because it's almost all pure profit. Hint: Excess spending.

And National Broadband Network, Labor simply had to buy the copper network from Telstra for some 40bn dollars. Telstra did bid for the project, and offered something that's actually acceptable and competitive at a much lower price with a much lower overhead, but since the govt didn't have control over it and Telstra wasn't too keen on censorship in the backbone of the network, the tender was rejected. So now, Labor wants to develop this NBN, headed by a previous head of Telstra, with a whole load of bureaucracy (read: inefficiency), and the prediction of the cost for a fibre-optic connection to a home is much higher than Telstra's proposal in the tender (which was deemed too high by the government). At this point, I doubt if anyone competent actually sat down and did the maths with proper advisors. This whole sham of a project reeks of EXCESSIVE SPENDING. Do you really trust the same treasurer and the same party to be back in the decision making position?

I agree that Tony Abbott is nowhere near as good as past Liberal PMs, he's a bit too out of touch for me, a bit too conservative, a bit too religious, and a bit too stupid. But you gotta realise it's the policy that makes a government, and the figurehead at the top doesn't have all that much power (unless you are Kevin-Rudd-Riding-Solo), and it's the cabinet and powers-that-be in the party that make the decisions. To be honest, I'd much rather a bunch of people who have successfully managed the country for many years in the past, than the Labor party (Read: bunch of idiots) who are known for excessive spending every single term of their leadership.

So no, I won't be voting Julia Gillard, because she represents Labor. I'd much rather a treasurer who can do the job (read: not Wayne Swann), and a party that can actually manage the country.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 12:31:54 am by Mao »
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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #87 on: August 04, 2010, 12:29:10 am »
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Figureheads aside, can someone please explain to me what is so bad about Abbott's policies?

Well that's exactly it. There are precious few. We'd love some policies to analyse, but the entire Liberal campaign thus far has been "attack Labor at all costs whilst contributing nothing of worth ourselves"

Pathetic

Disagree, because the entire Liberal campaign is "We're going to save money.", which may seem catchy for a few days, but given the attention span of the media and the public, it won't make them many friends while Labor is throwing money at everyone.

I'm actually glad that Liberal isn't promising that many changes, because changes cost money. They just want to come in, improve efficiency, save money and keep the country running smoothly.

So no, the campaign is not pathetic, it's necessary to a) keep the philosophy of their campaign, b) keep the attention of the media and public and c) win the election so we don't fall into a bigger debt. I'm proud that the Liberal is doing this at the scrutiny of the left, and not succumbing to throwing money at everyone. Let's hope they don't do that in the coming weeks.

To give an analogy, would you rather a conservative pilot piloting a passenger jet, or an idealistic pilot who wants to push the plane to it's fullest potential? Personally, I'd rather get there safely than possibly getting there faster but risk running out of fuel.
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enwiabe

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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #88 on: August 04, 2010, 12:33:41 am »
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On the topic of immigration policy, I agree completely with stopping the boats. These aren't refugee seekers, they aren't pursued by terrorists who are going to kill them (if they are, I'm sure US would have invaded that country already). They are illegal immigrants who want to jump the queue, and bypass the criteria. As a migrant, I'm disgusted, and as a citizen, I say a fair go for everyone IS the bottom line, so get back to the back of the queue, and if you don't want to wait back in your country, you can wait outside my door.

I find this stance to be abhorrent - devoid of compassion, and flush with ignorance.

There are terrorists in every country, you dolt, the United States does not own the world. Sri Lanka had some of the worst terrorists (Tamils) and US didn't go near them

Have you seen what's going on in Sudan? People are being slaughtered in their TENS OF THOUSANDS, and you sit here on your ass typing from your computer in 1st world Australia and tell them that they're not undergoing hardships?

In most parts of Arabia, the 5% richest live it up whilst actively hoarding wealth from the other 95%. Here's a little known fact - the average standard of living in THE WEST BANK (i.e. palestinians) IS HIGHER THAN THAT OF THE ENTIRE ARAB WORLD.

Most of the people fleeing countries like Iran, Syria etc. are fearing political retribution. You can be silently killed for speaking your mind in Iran.

So don't you fucking sit there and say that none of these people have a right to flee these regimes. That is SO OFFENSIVE. I can't even begin to imagine where you get off with "I'm an immigrant therefore I can say what I like". Do the most basic of research and you'll see that there are hundreds of millions of people facing daily oppression. Did you know that in most parts of Africa sexual slavery exists and is a thriving industry? You don't call that escaping fucking oppression?

Now I'll calm down a bit and agree that there is merit to the argument that among the genuine asylum seekers are queue jumpers, but to my mind, I'd rather take in the queue jumpers with the genuine asylum seekers than forsake those brave souls for leaving some of the most horrific conditions you could ever imagin, when the punishment for being caught is most likely death. But you'd rather not imagine, would you? It's so much easier to just deny any existence of the problem and sweep it under the rug...
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 12:38:12 am by enwiabe »

enwiabe

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Re: Gillard vs Abbott - Who will you vote for? POLL
« Reply #89 on: August 04, 2010, 12:34:20 am »
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Figureheads aside, can someone please explain to me what is so bad about Abbott's policies?

Well that's exactly it. There are precious few. We'd love some policies to analyse, but the entire Liberal campaign thus far has been "attack Labor at all costs whilst contributing nothing of worth ourselves"

Pathetic

Disagree, because the entire Liberal campaign is "We're going to save money.", which may seem catchy for a few days, but given the attention span of the media and the public, it won't make them many friends while Labor is throwing money at everyone.

I'm actually glad that Liberal isn't promising that many changes, because changes cost money. They just want to come in, improve efficiency, save money and keep the country running smoothly.

So no, the campaign is not pathetic, it's necessary to a) keep the philosophy of their campaign, b) keep the attention of the media and public and c) win the election so we don't fall into a bigger debt. I'm proud that the Liberal is doing this at the scrutiny of the left, and not succumbing to throwing money at everyone. Let's hope they don't do that in the coming weeks.

To give an analogy, would you rather a conservative pilot piloting a passenger jet, or an idealistic pilot who wants to push the plane to it's fullest potential? Personally, I'd rather get there safely than possibly getting there faster but risk running out of fuel.

How are they going to get a surplus by cutting taxes and not axing any of the spending programs, genius? Further to that, they've put forth more than $2 billion more of their own programs than the net of what they're going to cut from labor. E.g. let their programs = y and let labor's = x, and y - x = +$2 bn

That makes a lot of fiscal sense doesn't it... Lower taxes, more spending... yet SURPLUS!!!
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 12:46:47 am by enwiabe »