yay America did something good

[Noblesse]

unlike many of you . i have actually deeply thought about this issue and don't randomly bring out my ideas.

the father should be able to pop a child out of his ass whole. there's some logic for you...

Yup, too deep for me.

[matt123]

unlike many of you . i have actually deeply thought about this issue and don't randomly bring out my ideas.

the father should be able to pop a child out of his ass whole. there's some logic for you...

Yup, too deep for me.

haha
i love it how you delete the statement before it.

i clearly said
if gay couples were meant to have children.
why wouldn't god have created just men to have children.

[Russ]

its so evident .. why the hell was man and woman made?

I think we're going to need to have the the evolution vs. creationism debate (oh god no) before we can settle the "purpose" of man and woman...

[matt123]

hahah man
can we just end this debate/
?

i feel like the argument has become like .. hate for one another.

[Duck]

Matt 123 you're really not helping the cause. Okay then Russ, if man and woman are a result of evolution (even the pope accepts this now, doesn't he?) then where does this leave gays? Are gays a failure in the eyes of Darwin? Surely if you believe in evolution then you don't believe that anyone is born gay.

[starbuckscoffee]

Matt 123 you're really not helping the cause. Okay then Russ, if man and woman are a result of evolution (even the pope accepts this now, doesn't he?) then where does this leave gays? Are gays a failure in the eyes of Darwin? Surely if you believe in evolution then you don't believe that anyone is born gay.

Why can't you believe in evolution and believe people are born gay? If gay people are still prevalent, you can make the assumption that homosexual behaviour might well be selected for in an evolutionary context and be something that bestows a selective advantage to the family line. It could be selected for as an adjunct to some other variable/s or because having homosexual behaviour or/and homosexuals in a group may well actually increase the number of offspring left by their relatives.

[Duck]

Sorry, I don't follow. Because my siblings are gay I'll have more children?

[starbuckscoffee]

Sorry, I don't follow. Because my siblings are gay I'll have more children?

I'm sorry i assumed you had a basic understanding of Darwinian biology, since you were using it as the basis for your argument. It was just a theory.

(ps. i love how this has turned into a debate about gay marriage, to gay adoption to whether gays are actually born gay)

[Mao]

@matt123, your posts are slightly more bearable now, but I still don't think it's up to the standard (look at how everyone else posts).

Anyways, I am fairly confident in my assessment that you are confusing biological function, religious beliefs and social values. Just because a man cannot give birth does not mean he cannot fulfill the role of a mother (psychologically speaking, we're not claiming he must breast-feed). Your assumption here is not valid, all your subsequent conclusions are also invalid. Can you give a logical reason why a man cannot fulfill the role of a mother (psychologically speaking)? [Don't reply with "c'mon he's a dude", that's just ignorant assumptions]

And especially in modern day society, you should not assume the intelligent design theory when arguing about controversial topics such as this.

@Duck, if you believe in evolution, I suggest you check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
homosexual coupling, and child rearing in a homosexual environment, are not freaks of nature.

[Kennybhoy]

Matt123.

For fucks sake man, learn what "trolling" means. Everytime you use the word, you set off the internal wanker alert for me.

EVERYONE:

If a 14 year old kid had lesbian parents, he'd be the most popular guy at school.

I'm just sayin'

[Russ]

Matt 123 you're really not helping the cause. Okay then Russ, if man and woman are a result of evolution (even the pope accepts this now, doesn't he?) then where does this leave gays? Are gays a failure in the eyes of Darwin? Surely if you believe in evolution then you don't believe that anyone is born gay.

I don't believe that people are born gay, I believe it's a mixture of genetics and environment (okay so that can describe every trait but in this case my point is that we have no definitive cause of homosexuality).

Homosexuality isn't a failure according to Darwinian evolution, although technically nothing is. I assume you're saying that since they can't reproduce, they can't pass the trait on. Unfortunately, it's not this simple. There are plenty of circumstances in which men/women who are possessed of a hypothetical "gay gene" would reproduce. The simplest example, is to imagine it as analogous to Huntington Disease - you're perfectly healthy until you're not. The product of the "gay gene" would accumulate and at some arbitrary point, would "turn" the individual (think a happily married man coming out of the closet). You're also assuming that we have no incidence of bisexual interactions.

(ps. i love how this has turned into a debate about gay marriage, to gay adoption to whether gays are actually born gay)

This thread is the best thread...

[Duck]

That page on animal homosexuality was interesting despite my limited knowledge and interest in biology. The Darwin comment was a cursory note about how sex is primarily about reproduction. I think you all may have convinced me to support gay marriage (not that I ever opposed it, I was more undecided) but I stand my ground on adoption. Mao the reason he can't give you a logical reason is that these things (different types of affection) are difficult to put into words (ineffable - awesome word.) Do you think a single man should be allowed to adopt? Do you think it is wrong that mothers win the large majority of custody battles?

[akira88]

I believe homosexuality arises from genetics- think about this. If someone weren't born gay, why would they choose to be gay? Wouldn't they themselves want to be straight so they don't get into shit like this? Why would they make life hard for themselves in such a judgmental society? I know I'm going to get a few replies from this.

And like someone said above, there has been evidence of homosexuality in animals too. It's stupid to discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation, blah blah we all know that. Seriously, are there any 100% legit reasons for making gay marriage illegal? No.

[letsride]

^wouldn't evolution kill off the "gay gene" then as it is not reproductive and has no use for the futue development of human nature.

So if being gay is not a choice, yet doesn't come from our genes, where does it come from?

[iNerd]

I believe homosexuality arises from genetics- think about this. If someone weren't born gay, why would they choose to be gay? Wouldn't they themselves want to be straight so they don't get into shit like this? Why would they make life hard for themselves in such a judgmental society? I know I'm going to get a few replies from this.

And like someone said above, there has been evidence of homosexuality in animals too. It's stupid to discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation, blah blah we all know that. Seriously, are there any 100% legit reasons for making gay marriage illegal? No.

well yur' right yur' gna get a reply mate...thats outrageous...make life hard for themselves? gays have the same rights as straights kid...gays arise from the heart desiring another man; its lyk define love? yu cant...yu feel it kid, feel it.