Ultra-Orthodox a growing burden on Israel

[Chavi]

You'll be surprised how effective international pressure is at inducing change. In the same way that the global community came together against South African Apartheid in the 80s and 90s, it should come together now to fight pressing issues such as the genocide in Darfur, the occupation of Cyprus by Turkey and the Burmese Junta (just to name a few). Unfortunately the UN Human Rights council - which once had the potential to safeguard and protect Human Rights - has degenerated into a comical kangaroo court with the sole purpose of bashing Israel, which in turns harms the interests of those who are indeed suffering from abuse, persecution and discrimination. (see UNwatch - an NGO that documents this extensively http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.1359197/k.6748/UN_Israel__AntiSemitism.htm)

Also attributing all the worlds problems to unchecked Capitalism and the West is a real cop out because:
1) this is untrue
2) it shifts the blame away from those responsible to those whoa aren't.
What did the Cambodia Genocide or Rwandan genocide have to do with Capitalism? It was race-hate and lust for power pure and simple.

I don't care about those countries really, any more than I care about your plight against the Arabs or some shit

Plight is the incorrect term here. It is only used as a verb in reference to giving a pledge to marry. The word you are looking for is 'vendetta'.
Otherwise, I disagree with this point.

[Cianyx]

Sorry buddy, just got off the computer. I am now typing off a device which 12 chinese people died to make. Olololololololol. I'll address and clarify my position tomorrow. I'll keep the plight thing in mind

[Chavi]

so we are in agreement then ...

[8039]

You'll be surprised how effective international pressure is at inducing change. In the same way that the global community came together against South African Apartheid in the 80s and 90s, it should come together now to fight pressing issues such as the genocide in Darfur, the occupation of Cyprus by Turkey and the Burmese Junta (just to name a few). Unfortunately the UN Human Rights council - which once had the potential to safeguard and protect Human Rights - has degenerated into a comical kangaroo court with the sole purpose of bashing Israel, which in turns harms the interests of those who are indeed suffering from abuse, persecution and discrimination. (see UNwatch - an NGO that documents this extensively http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.1359197/k.6748/UN_Israel__AntiSemitism.htm)

Also attributing all the worlds problems to unchecked Capitalism and the West is a real cop out because:
1) this is untrue
2) it shifts the blame away from those responsible to those whoa aren't.
What did the Cambodia Genocide or Rwandan genocide have to do with Capitalism? It was race-hate and lust for power pure and simple.

I don't care about those countries really, any more than I care about your plight against the Arabs or some shit

Plight is the incorrect term here. It is only used as a verb in reference to giving a pledge to marry. The word you are looking for is 'vendetta'.
Otherwise, I disagree with this point.

According to some anti-zionists the incident in Darfur is a great evasive tool for Israeli supporters...

[ninwa]

1) Which threads?
2) If you care so much about human rights abuses in other countries, make a damn thread to draw attention to it instead of whinging about what a victim you are. Otherwise, don't use some sort of pretend altruistic "I care about the world" justification for the fact that you just don't like to see Israel criticised for anything.
3) Are you denying that you and Yitzi are usually the two of the more vocal defenders of religion on VN? Regardless, what does religion have to do with Israel in particular anyway?

[Cianyx]

You'll be surprised how effective international pressure is at inducing change. In the same way that the global community came together against South African Apartheid in the 80s and 90s, it should come together now to fight pressing issues such as the genocide in Darfur, the occupation of Cyprus by Turkey and the Burmese Junta (just to name a few). Unfortunately the UN Human Rights council - which once had the potential to safeguard and protect Human Rights - has degenerated into a comical kangaroo court with the sole purpose of bashing Israel, which in turns harms the interests of those who are indeed suffering from abuse, persecution and discrimination. (see UNwatch - an NGO that documents this extensively http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.1359197/k.6748/UN_Israel__AntiSemitism.htm)

The international community and the UN are a joke. I'm pretty sure we all know that. The 'community', which consists of First World countries, namely the US, imposing their will in matters which benefits them. For argument's sake, I'll concede that there is an Anti-Israel bias in the UN but the atrocities committed by Israel shouldn't be lessened by that fact.

Also attributing all the worlds problems to unchecked Capitalism and the West is a real cop out because:
1) this is untrue

It is a cop out in a sense it has nothing pertaining to the argument and I don't even know why I brought it up. I've always noticed you enjoy resorting to false dichotomies. Why is this? I never attributed all of the world's problems to capitalism. I stated that I focus on destructive practices by the West.

2) it shifts the blame away from those responsible to those whoa aren't.

Funny. That's what I say about the entire terrorist fiasco.

What did the Cambodia Genocide or Rwandan genocide have to do with Capitalism? It was race-hate and lust for power pure and simple.

Considering this doesn't have any ground anymore, I'll bite. Firstly, the Khmer Rogue genocide has a direct cause in unchecked capitalism. Like so many other countries before it, it turned nationalist in order to expel all foreign influences such as economic dominations by industrialised countries, foreigners etc.
The Rwandan genocide was caused by multiculturalism. This is not an issue caused by capitalism (though in a lot of cases, closely linked) but is still a matter prevalent in Western society as well as most of the world eg. massive WP movements in US, Russia, Britain, Germany, Australia's bashing of foreigners, gassing of Kurds, Malaysia, Israel v Palestine, Phalangists in Lebanon.

Otherwise, I disagree with this point.

Umm, okay?

[Chavi]

1. This one instantly comes to mind, but there are a few more: http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,30485.0.html
2. Gladly. Although you are wrong on this point. I personally have many harsh criticisms of Israeli government policy - some of which are quite acerbic and damning. However I realised long ago that the correct place to air those critiques is in Hebrew to an Israeli audience - who are receptive to such criticism and have the voting right to change the situation. Attacking Israel on non-Israeli sites is easily misread as anti-zionism and gives fuel for neo-nazis, Islamists and antisemites who don't understand the nuanced and complicated problems withing Israeli society. (Check out this article the Ariel Boycott by Muslim author Qanta Ahmed as an example of this issue: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/qanta-ahmed/collateral-damage-the-hid_b_742852.html)
3. I was confused by your point as well. You seem to assume that defending secular Israel is tantamount to defending religion in general. . .

@Cianyx. What are these Israeli "atrocities" that you speak of? It is really quite a shock to hear such sensationalism and hyperbole. The State of Israel has made mistakes (I've heard all the soundbyte one-liners), but her record is cleaner than any other country facing similar circumstances - a tiny, high density democracy squeezed in by 22 hostile Arab countries waiting to "drive the Jews into the sea". I challenge you to provide one irrefutable example of the Israeli government intentionally targeting civilians (i.e. the claim made by the Goldstone report). That would be an atrocity. Arguably, America lost it's moral compass in 'Nam and Iraq. I have no doubts that the IDF is still the most moral army in the world.

[ninwa]

1. This one instantly comes to mind, but there are a few more: http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,30485.0.html

You started that one, and made a number of anti-Islam comments. So you can dish it out but can't take it?

Where are the other threads?

3. I was confused by your point as well. You seem to assume that defending secular Israel is tantamount to defending religion in general. . .

I have no idea what you're talking about here? Are you responding to this?

This is the only thread I can find that actually discusses Israel (not religion, which tends to turn to Judaism simply by virtue of the fact that the more vocal religious people here are Jewish).

[gfb]

Enwiabe, as a bialik graduate, you should be fully aware that this issue is hotly debated within Israel and in the Israeli press. Here it is simply irrelevant.

By opening up this issue for discussion on a vce-related forum you're just inviting a wave of knee-jerk antisemitism and anti-israel vitriol. Clearly, if you're unaware of Israel's social problems, there are other places to go for info - rather than professing ignorance and naively posting an article from a media outlet with a clear anti-zionist agenda.

Not impressed.

Why so serious? oww the ultra got offended. Dude, I am fully aware of this situation- you do not need to use your well known techniques to hide things.

[Chavi]

nope, it began here
http://vcenotes.com/forum/index.php/topic,30457.msg312218.html#msg312218

Anti-Islam comments? Examples plz

3. ye

[Chavi]

Enwiabe, as a bialik graduate, you should be fully aware that this issue is hotly debated within Israel and in the Israeli press. Here it is simply irrelevant.

By opening up this issue for discussion on a vce-related forum you're just inviting a wave of knee-jerk antisemitism and anti-israel vitriol. Clearly, if you're unaware of Israel's social problems, there are other places to go for info - rather than professing ignorance and naively posting an article from a media outlet with a clear anti-zionist agenda.

Not impressed.

Why so serious? oww the ultra got offended. Dude, I am fully aware of this situation- you do not need to use your well known techniques to hide things.

hahahaha. VN's resident anti-Israel shahid has returned from the dead

[8039]

Enwiabe, as a bialik graduate, you should be fully aware that this issue is hotly debated within Israel and in the Israeli press. Here it is simply irrelevant.

By opening up this issue for discussion on a vce-related forum you're just inviting a wave of knee-jerk antisemitism and anti-israel vitriol. Clearly, if you're unaware of Israel's social problems, there are other places to go for info - rather than professing ignorance and naively posting an article from a media outlet with a clear anti-zionist agenda.

Not impressed.

Why so serious? oww the ultra got offended. Dude, I am fully aware of this situation- you do not need to use your well known techniques to hide things

whoaa what are you implying

[gfb]

Enwiabe, as a bialik graduate, you should be fully aware that this issue is hotly debated within Israel and in the Israeli press. Here it is simply irrelevant.

By opening up this issue for discussion on a vce-related forum you're just inviting a wave of knee-jerk antisemitism and anti-israel vitriol. Clearly, if you're unaware of Israel's social problems, there are other places to go for info - rather than professing ignorance and naively posting an article from a media outlet with a clear anti-zionist agenda.

Not impressed.

Why so serious? oww the ultra got offended. Dude, I am fully aware of this situation- you do not need to use your well known techniques to hide things.

hahahaha. VN's resident anti-Israel shahid has returned from the dead

Yea Shahid's never die.

Brb i might go run a few laps around Israel

[Chavi]

Yea Shahid's never die.

Brb i might go run a few laps around Israel

Of course Shahid's die. The pursuit of martydom involves death.

On a side note, this comment reminded me of this picture from here - for the obvious reason: http://www.israellycool.com/2010/07/12/the-day-in-israel-monday-july-12th-2010/



A close relative perhaps? Do you have this on your bedroom wall yet?

[gfb]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/08/2010816164542801123.html

and you reminded me of this here .