Ultra-Orthodox a growing burden on Israel

[ninwa]

First you say it portrays the country in a negative light, then you say it only focuses on a segment of society. Which one is it?

Why does a focus on the ultra-orthodox being a drain on society somehow make the entire country look bad? Pretty sure that's an issue in a lot of countries. In fact, the article explains very clearly the power that the ultra-orthodox hold in parliament means that the status quo is difficult to change - i.e. no casting of negative aspersions on Israel as a country. The fact that Israel is trying to change this only elevates my opinion of it.

It's paranoid people like you, who stifle debate before it has even started, that put a negative light on Jewish people and Israel in general. Suppression quickyl turns to resentment. I don't much appreciate your assumption that any article about any negative parts of any society would turn anyone here against said society. VN is far more intelligent than that.

Cases in point:
No anti-France sentiment in this thread, merely a focus on the issue itself
No anti-Korea, or anti-Asian posts or here (because Israel isn't the only focus of internet trolls. Try reading any online, negative news article about China and you'll find myriad, virulently racist comments)
Anti-US sentiment? Nope. Even though so many people do it.

In fact, the only thread I can find which attempts to turn a news story into an attack against a certain group of people is yours - "upper-middle class kids going to private schools" - really?

[QuantumJG]

Reading this thread doesn't sound like it's trying to promote anti-semitism. This topic is just talking about an economical issue in Israel.

I personally did not know about this issue at all and have learnt a lot about the world just from hearing people from different backgrounds discuss them on VCENotes.

I just wanted to add that I find it offensive that you call people on VCENotes anti-semantic semitic.

My bad.

[Yitzi_K]

As ever, The Age is not a reliable source for news about Israel, and it has demonstrated that once again right here.

The percentage of chareidim in Israel entering the work force as well as the IDF has actually significantly increased in recent years, and there is a continued upwards trend. Also, the article completely ignores female chareidim, who actually have a very high participation rate.

Furthermore, one cannot underestimate the value of tens of thousands of people sitting and learning day and night. While they may not be contributing economically, they are contributing in a different and possibly more important way.

[wildareal]

Reading this thread doesn't sound like it's trying to promote anti-semitism. This topic is just talking about an economical issue in Israel.

I personally did not know about this issue at all and have learnt a lot about the world just from hearing people from different backgrounds discuss them on VCENotes.

I just wanted to add that I find it offensive that you call people on VCENotes anti-semantic.

I think a lot of people on VCEnotes are very anti-semantic. But I don't think anyone here is anti-semitic.

[Yitzi_K]

I think a lot of people on VCEnotes are very anti-semantic. But I don't think anyone here is anti-semitic.

Really? I've gotten anti-semitic abuse on this website. I'm not saying anti-semitism is prevalent here, because it certainly isn't, but it does exist.

[matt123]

I think a lot of people on VCEnotes are very anti-semantic. But I don't think anyone here is anti-semitic.

Really? I've gotten anti-semitic abuse on this website. I'm not saying anti-semitism is prevalent here, because it certainly isn't, but it does exist.

why hate the jews?
poor people , leave em alone lol
they already went thru heavy conflict with hitler.....

if someone is racist .. give em a smash in the face
wil do the trick

[wildareal]

I think a lot of people on VCEnotes are very anti-semantic. But I don't think anyone here is anti-semitic.

Really? I've gotten anti-semitic abuse on this website. I'm not saying anti-semitism is prevalent here, because it certainly isn't, but it does exist.

The problem on VCEnotes is not anti-semitism-we are a good bunch of people. It is anti-semanticism. Too many people follow the conventions of colloquialism and do not make the effort to speak properly. I mean we must look at the words themselves; how would they feel when they are being shortened for slang, used in the wrong context, etc. It is a problem we as VCEnotes members must look at.

[MuggedByReality]

 At the risk of Mao attempting to drive a stake through my heart, (or whatever is necessary to stifle necromancers) I think this is pertinent; that 'secession' of a person, household, community or nation from a state wouldn't be as difficult as one might imagine, as these links help explain:

  http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=116352892127
 http://www.secession.net/#PRINCIPLES

http://www.theage.com.au/world/israels-ultraorthodox-a-growing-burden-on-the-state-20100813-1236a.html

Wow, never knew about this problem. Reckon they should be forced to try to get jobs?

             WTF?   I thought you were immersed in everything to do with Israel. I probably know < 20% of what you know about Israel and I knew about this.

[8039]

You have to examine the intent here. For some reason, VCEnotes focuses disproportionately on Israel

Oh please, what utter self-victimising crap.

Why self-victimizing? it's true. No other country gets as much flack.

[Cianyx]

See: America

Out of curiosity, which country would you want to see slagged off more often?

[8039]

See: America

Out of curiosity, which country would you want to see slagged off more often?

Taking into account that Israel is the size of New Jersey and is by no means a world superpower involved in a major war.

That said, I'd like to see Tajikistan slagged off more often... they have it too good.

[ninwa]

Why self-victimizing? it's true. No other country gets as much flack.

This is the only thread I can find that actually discusses Israel (not religion, which tends to turn to Judaism simply by virtue of the fact that the more vocal religious people here are Jewish).

[Chavi]

Why self-victimizing? it's true. No other country gets as much flack.

This is the only thread I can find that actually discusses Israel (not religion, which tends to turn to Judaism simply by virtue of the fact that the more vocal religious people here are Jewish).

Classic evasion. There are quite a few threads that end up attacking Israel for no reason other than to scapegoat [and sometimes completely offtopic as well to deflect blame]. And how you come to the conclusion that the more vocal religious people here are Jewish is beyond me - have you pm'ed individual members or taken a poll - or is this just your 'reliable' gut instinct once again?

[Chavi]

Out of curiosity, which country would you want to see slagged off more often?

The countries that actually deserve blame and external pressure. (read the third world. China. Sudan. Somalia. Every Arab country. Venezuela. Eastern Europe. Zimbabwe)
But then maybe it's easier just to focus on one democracy's imperfections rather than to go after the 'real issues' that actually require hard work and thought.

Way to go Human Rights crusader. . .

[Cianyx]

Me? Human Rights crusader? Never heard that one before

If this is about the previous thread about providing aid to Palestine, I explicitly said I was gonna play the devil's advocate.

I don't care about those countries really, any more than I care about your plight against the Arabs or some shit. If you made a thread on the Congo War, I would be more than happy to slam every single party involved. But you never made one. I focus on 'democracy's imperfections', namely ours, because the Western world dominates the entire world and involves itself in extremely destructive practices. Most of it finding its roots in unchecked capitalism as we know it. Please, slamming dictators require 'hard work and though'? You mustn't be working or thinking hard at all.

Also, are you a fan of Alan Dershowitz?