What makes a country a "muslim country"?

[Chavi]

Well, generally there are two motives behind extremism:

1) Circumstance - i.e. depriving someone of their basic rights/poverty/existential threats
2) Brainwashing and baseless hatred by one's society/religion/teachers

So, if you feel like your surrounded on all sides, under threat of nuclear war, and you're repeatedly called to be driven into the sea, then it's understandable (although not always justifiable) if one is driven to extremism based on reason 1)

Conversely, if one is raised in a society that glorifies death, hatred and war above life, then there would be a strong tendency toward extremism based on 2)

[slothpomba]

But you can agree most muslims just go about their daily life like we do right? It's only the bad apples that spoil it for the rest of them and for a religion that size theres bound to be a few bad apples... theres terrorists and people who kill other people from every walk of life

[TrueLight]

mmm yeah i would say a combination... circumstance well you have pretty bad circumstances in war situation where there is killing going on all the time and you often have corrupt leaders
hmm yeah brainwashing is easy in these circumstances too and often when your young

[the essence]

The lack of education creates fundamentalism which is a shame because it is so avoidable.

[slothpomba]

Mix of both but having bad circumstances certainly makes the "brainwashing" easier and good "brainwashing" wouldnt require many previous circumstances.

For instance im pretty sure the iraq war and all the destruction the Americans were causing only added fuel to the fire of people who use violence in a misguided way. No brainwashing required, would of turned a lot more people into people who don't use civil means to bring about change

[TrueLight]

yes... well if my mum and dad died because someone shot them because they thought they were evil or hiding people... i would be pretty pissed off .... oh maybe ill join some group whose fighting against them... maybe...

[Chavi]

But you can agree most muslims just go about their daily life like we do right? It's only the bad apples that spoil it for the rest of them and for a religion that size theres bound to be a few bad apples... theres terrorists and people who kill other people from every walk of life

As I wrote earlier, the problem lies not with Mohammedans per-se but with Islam as a polito-religious ideology (which is why I wrote earlier that acculturation into Western society can pacify fundamentalism). It is one of the few political ideologies that still uses religion and belief to justify violence. In the scheme of world religions, Islam is a relatively new phenomenon - only 1400 years old. The people throughout the Arab world still maintain their same cultures and ethnicities to those prior to their forced conversions to Islam in the 7-8th centuries. Clearly the problem isn't with a group of people or a particular nation. The problem lies with a destructive, deadly ideology that deems most Australians as infidels who need to be either forcibly converted or killed.

This is one of the reasons why the peace talks being held now between Israel and the Arabs will end as they did with the Oslo Accords - inconclusive, followed by a wave of terrorism. The nature of the ME conflict, the 9/11 attacks and the Bali bombings isn't land based, and has nothing to do with grievances or oppression. Who is occupying Indonesia or New York? 'Land for peace' is a myth, that has been proven with the 2005 Gaza disengagement. The problem lies with Islam, an ideology conducive to terror that enables adherents to commit atrocities while justifying them with a black book.

[TrueLight]

no but they can attack other countries who they perceive as helping the "occupiers"

[Chavi]

Okay, so if you're able to justify Islamic terrorism as a reactionary movement to 'occupation', how do you explain violence prior to 'occupation'?

[TrueLight]

well give me an example.

but there will always be a fringe group of "extremists" although it gets much exacerbated when these events occur and are more likely to be "brainwashed"

[Chavi]

Example: The US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as well as the 9/11 attacks, prior to the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Bohr]

Chavi, you should have done international studies.

[enwiabe]

Example: The US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as well as the 9/11 attacks, prior to the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.

1991

[slothpomba]

I never heard the word mohammadean before... sounds like you're getting a whole bunch of invented concepts from somewhere or something... some of your ideas dont exactly reflect regular thought processes...

[ninwa]

Example: The US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as well as the 9/11 attacks, prior to the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_embassy_bombings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War