What makes a country a "muslim country"?

[TrueLight]

keyna bombing...interesting facts... the attack of Jamia Mosque (the symbol of Islam in Nairobi)
mistreatment of Al-Faisal at the hands of the Kenyan authorities who had a lot of support
Al Qaida (and Muslims alike) may interpret his nabbing in Kenya as the product of American/British influence thus the need to teach the Kenyan government a lesson one more time
and also they perceive Kenya government to be puppets to the American/British governments
During the Al Faisal demo in Nairobi, reports indicated that five Muslims were shot dead by police. According to a statement released through revolutionmuslim.com (which has posted the first interview with Al Faisal since his arrival in Jamaica) the prayer of Al Qaida is that Allah bestow upon the slain Kenyan Muslims the honor of martyrs. Be that as it may, Al Qaida will, most likely, want to revenge their deaths and there is no better way of doing so than exploding a huge car bomb at Nairobi’s Central Business District to kill as many Kenyans as possible or sending a suicide bomber to blast one of the five star hotels to kill “Kafirs".

also in why muslim extremists hate america
(1) the U.S. government’s ardent support of Saddam Hussein and the furnishing of biological and chemical weapons of mass destruction to him; (2) the more than 10 years of brutal sanctions against Iraq, which contributed to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children; (3) UN Ambassador Madeleine Albright’s infamous statement to Sixty Minutes that the deaths of half a million Iraqi children from the sanctions had been “worth it”; (4) the stationing of U.S. troops on Islamic holy lands, knowing the adverse impact such action would have on Muslims; (5) the “no-fly zones,” which were never authorized by either the UN or the U.S. Congress and which killed still more Iraqis, including 13-year-old Omran Harbi Jawair, whose head was shot off by a U.S. missile while he was tending his sheep in 2000; (6) and the long-time, unconditional financial and military aid provided the Israeli government.

oh and i found this on wikipedia on osama bin ladens motivation and theres others
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beliefs_and_ideology_of_Osama_bin_Laden
"First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.
If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless."

if you scroll down it has osama bin ladens transcript on a fatwah against americans and the reasons why
http://www.mideastweb.org/osamabinladen1.htm

and theres probably others too but it would take quite a while to research them

[Cthulhu]

There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. I'm sure if they all wanted to blow themselves up they would have by now.

So lets move on.

[slothpomba]

There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. I'm sure if they all wanted to blow themselves up they would have by now.

So lets move on.

+1

[Chavi]

I never heard the word mohammadean before... sounds like you're getting a whole bunch of invented concepts from somewhere or something... some of your ideas dont exactly reflect regular thought processes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammedan
Ignorance is bliss eh?

Example: The US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as well as the 9/11 attacks, prior to the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_embassy_bombings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War

So let me get this straight. The supposed anger over the Gulf War led otherwise peaceful Muslims to start attacking America? Let's not forget the Saddam Hussein
1) invaded a fellow Muslim country, Kuwait
2) Massacred hundreds of thousands of his own people (who are Muslim)

The rabid anti-Americanism found in the Muslim world has other, ideological reasons behind it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisions_of_the_world_in_Islam#Dar_al-Harb_.28House_of_war.29

[Cthulhu]

Example: The US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as well as the 9/11 attacks, prior to the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_embassy_bombings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War

So let me get this straight. The supposed anger over the Gulf War led otherwise peaceful Muslims to start attacking America? Let's not forget the Saddam Hussein
1) invaded a fellow Muslim country, Kuwait
2) Massacred hundreds of thousands of his own people (who are Muslim)

The rabid anti-Americanism found in the Muslim world has other, ideological reasons behind it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisions_of_the_world_in_Islam#Dar_al-Harb_.28House_of_war.29

You're right Chavi! How would invading a country cause anger among peaceful people! And as for the invasion of Kuwait: No ones EVER invaded a country for its resources before! That'd be utterly outrageous; that'd be like invading a land full of milk and honey!
Countries invade each other for stupid bullshit reasons and end up starting wars, and countries hate each other for not respecting that countries beliefs and laws.

A few ignorant Americans are hateful of the Muslim countries because a few bad-eggs flew into their towers. Muslims hate America for starting a war. The cycle continues.

[Yitzi_K]

Muslim terror started waaay before any 'occupation' ever started, real or perceived. For example, the 1929 Hebron massacre, in which 67 Jews were slaughtered by Arab mobs. Now these days, whenever Arabs kill Jews, it's considered the Jews fault for 'occupying' 'their' land. (See the lack of global outrage at last week's murder of 4 Jews including a pregnant mother.) However, 1929 was almost 20 years before the State of Israel ever existed; how then, do you explain the motivation for this unprovoked attack?

A few ignorant Americans are hateful of the Muslim countries because a few bad-eggs flew into their towers. Muslims hate America for starting a war. The cycle continues.

This view is both naive and ignorant. Muslim persecution of dhimmis has been going on since the days of Mohamed himself. Why, then, do you pretend it doesn't exist? Furthermore, the idea of establishing a global caliphate is well established in Islamic doctrine, again going back to the days of Mohamed. Now Muslims in general are a devout bunch, so why do you claim that they don't believe in this tenet of their religion?

The idea that 'they hate us because we hate them, and no one knows where the cycle started' is incredibly ignorant, because the cycle starts and finishes with the Koran. It's all there in black and white, take the time to read it sometime. Until you do, here's a snapshot:

Sura (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve
Sura (48:29) - Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves

Sura (9:30) - And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah... Allah (Himself) fights against them. How perverse are they!

Sura (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them

Sura (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

Sura (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

To paraphrase Chavi, your tolerance of intolerance is as naive as it is dangerous, because it is people like you who are apologising for Islamic terror worldwide, which has only one possible consequence, and that is an increase, as we are in fact witnessing.

[Chavi]

\You're right Chavi! How would invading a country cause anger among peaceful people! And as for the invasion of Kuwait: No ones EVER invaded a country for its resources before! That'd be utterly outrageous; that'd be like invading a land full of milk and honey!
Countries invade each other for stupid bullshit reasons and end up starting wars, and countries hate each other for not respecting that countries beliefs and laws.

A few ignorant Americans are hateful of the Muslim countries because a few bad-eggs flew into their towers. Muslims hate America for starting a war. The cycle continues.

This is actually a terrible and naive comparison on may levels. It assumes that Muslims terror is justified because America starts wars, and that the terrorists and their apologists are just a few "bad eggs".
This is wrong because the majority of the victims of Islamic terror are actually Muslims, and many targets are not American (Israel, Europe, India). What do you suppose is going on now in Pakistan, surely the Ahmadis aren't being persecuted because they love America?

Also, as demonstrated by PEW research (http://pewresearch.org/pubs/26/where-terrorism-finds-support-in-the-muslim-world), Islamic terror is widely supported throughout the Arab world. So if 57% of Jordanians believe that terror against civilians is justified for political gain, does that mean that 3 out of every 5 Jordanians are simply "bad apples"? It's a fallacy to assume that groups like Al-Shabbab, Jama Islamiyya and Hezbollah are just fringe groups with no support in the Arab world (let's not forget the pro-Hezbollah rallies orchestrated by Aussie Muslims in Melbourne during the 2nd Lebanon war). Clearly, there is wide support for terror amongst Muslims, and the picture isn't as 'milk n' cookies' as you make it out to be. But hey, we ought to be politically correct and give them the benefit of the doubt ye?

The answer to all of the above is no, and I brought them as examples to demonstrate your faulty reasoning. Islamic hatred toward America and the West has less to do with the 1st Gulf war, and more to do with an ideology that demands conquest and forced proselytism. To quote Geert Wilders, the problem is not with Muslims, it's with Islam.

[enwiabe]

I never heard the word mohammadean before... sounds like you're getting a whole bunch of invented concepts from somewhere or something... some of your ideas dont exactly reflect regular thought processes...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammedan
Ignorance is bliss eh?

Example: The US embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania, as well as the 9/11 attacks, prior to the occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_embassy_bombings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War

So let me get this straight. The supposed anger over the Gulf War led otherwise peaceful Muslims to start attacking America? Let's not forget the Saddam Hussein
1) invaded a fellow Muslim country, Kuwait
2) Massacred hundreds of thousands of his own people (who are Muslim)

The rabid anti-Americanism found in the Muslim world has other, ideological reasons behind it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divisions_of_the_world_in_Islam#Dar_al-Harb_.28House_of_war.29

You clearly know little about this. The message from America to Iraq in 1991 was RISE UP WE'RE COMING. They said to the shi'ites to rise up against the Sunni regime and they would come to liberate them from oppression.

They got in there and then BAILED after the shi'ites started rebelling. Once the Americans left they were SLAUGHTERED for it, and yes, that started a FUCKLOAD of anti-American sentiment.

THE SHI'ITES WOULD HAVE WELCOMED THE AMERICANS WITH OPEN ARMS IN 1991. THEY DID! But they got fucking burnt by George Bush snr and then when Bush jnr came back in 2003 they remembered what happened 12 years ago, that's one of the major reasons for the insurgency. The 9/11 attacks resulted from the spreading of Anti-American sentiment following the Gulf war. It was the catalyst.

[ninwa]

Muslim terror started waaay before any 'occupation' ever started, real or perceived. For example, the 1929 Hebron massacre, in which 67 Jews were slaughtered by Arab mobs. Now these days, whenever Arabs kill Jews, it's considered the Jews fault for 'occupying' 'their' land. (See the lack of global outrage at last week's murder of 4 Jews including a pregnant mother.) However, 1929 was almost 20 years before the State of Israel ever existed; how then, do you explain the motivation for this unprovoked attack?

Because human beings are a shit species and will always find reasons to kill each other, whether it be religion or otherwise.

[Yitzi_K]

Muslim terror started waaay before any 'occupation' ever started, real or perceived. For example, the 1929 Hebron massacre, in which 67 Jews were slaughtered by Arab mobs. Now these days, whenever Arabs kill Jews, it's considered the Jews fault for 'occupying' 'their' land. (See the lack of global outrage at last week's murder of 4 Jews including a pregnant mother.) However, 1929 was almost 20 years before the State of Israel ever existed; how then, do you explain the motivation for this unprovoked attack?

Because human beings are a shit species and will always find reasons to kill each other, whether it be religion or otherwise.

That may or may not be true, but let's be honest here, right now it's Muslims doing a very large percentage of it.

[Cthulhu]

So what do you two, Chavi and Yitzi, propose the world does about terrorism?

[Cianyx]

Kill everyone, start over

[Mulan]

you guys sound like my history teachers

[MuggedByReality]

What makes a Muslim country? Just a few things: Gender apartheid, dictatorship, poverty, rampant scapegoating, intolerance toward other religions, imported slave labour, government corruption, a bribe economy, and hatred toward Israel and The West.

P.S. Geert Wilders isn't so much against Mohammedans as he is against Islamism as an ideology. What we're seeing now in Europe, is a process of Islamization, whereby fundamentalists are trying to replace the dominant culture and government with Sharia Law. Google up Tariq Ramadan, Eurabia, Aayan Hirsi Ali and Theo Van Gogh for more info on this. The only way to prevent this from happening in Australia, is to ensure that Aussie Muslims are more integrated and assimilated into our multicultural society - ensuring they have high socioeconomic standards, an education and opportunities. When people have something to lose, they're much less willing to embark on a jihad.

   Not sure how much that's a factor. Much of the radicalisation in Britain ("inculcation" seems too benign a word) has happened on university campuses, such that: 32% of Muslim students believed killing in the name of religion was justifiable; 40% wanted to live under Sharia in the UK; 18% feel "little or no loyalty" to the UK; 36% supported the death penalty for apostates; 13% admired Al Qaeda. Of course, many students are hard-up, but uni generally isn't somewhere you go if you're for want of two pennies to rub together.

 edit: Reading the thread further, it seems Yitzl made much the same point and Chavi made good points in reply.  Oh well.
         
  Also (Ch)avi, is this you? : http://flaggman.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/deconstructing-the-avi-lewisayaan-hirsi-ali-clip/

[Chavi]

       
  Also (Ch)avi, is this you? : http://flaggman.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/deconstructing-the-avi-lewisayaan-hirsi-ali-clip/

You think that I'm Avi Lewis the famous Canadian Media personality working for Al Jazeera? I'm insulted
but lol @ grave dig from September